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Traffic light activator for the burgman

3K views 18 replies 10 participants last post by  ravjack  
#1 ·
Hello... I saw a $20 add-on that is suppose to trip the traffic light sensors in the road.. As I read, it said it was a small magnet.... I found a site that sells just the magnet for about $3 but it is $8 to ship... As anyone tried them? Are there negative effects of having a magnet attached below the radiator?

Here is the site I found them...

http://www.magnet4less.com/index.php?cPath=1_123


these are the size that match what I read about

ND059-Epoxy
Epoxy-Ni-Cu-Ni Coated 1 in x 1/2 in Thick, Grade N42, Rare Earth Neodymium Disc Magnets
Best corrosion-resistant coating
Epoxy + Nickel + Copper + Nickel 4-layer coating
Pull force: 46 lbs
Magnetized through 1/2"

Price:
$1.90 -- $2.35

side note: Some of these magnets are AMAZING in their strength.. to the point the come with a pinch warning. Look at the pull on a small 2 x 2 INCH magnet! - In one article I read, a person lost the tip of their finger( crushed) when two magnets about 3 feet apart decided to mate!

ND077-N50
Grade N50, 2 in x 2 in Thick, Rare Earth Neodymium Disc Magnets
Strong N50 Grade
Pull force: 430 lbs
Magnetized through 2"

Price:
$65.99 -- $79.99
 
#2 ·
Again, this is a subject that has been discussed at length. A lot of those 'magnet' things do not work as you have to literally place the magnet down right next to the road surface IF the sensor is not adjusted at the stop light. Even a rare earth magnet, when attached to the bottom of the scoot, won't have enough of a field (gauss) to trip the sensor. Magnetic fields drop off dramatically as you move away from the magnet. The shape and type of magnets used all have different fields, and the bar magnets I've seen in some of these devices simply do NOT place their fields down on the surface of the road where you want it.

I tried it with many different types of magnets, some of them being of the type you 'attach' to the bottom of your bike to trip traffic light sensors. I got varying results, mostly bad.

So if you cannot take the sensor to the magnet, then take the magnet to the sensor:

I removed rare earth magnets from old scrap hard drives and installed one in the 'curve' of my LEFT boot and putting the magnet right DOWN on the road surface activates troublesome lights. The only way to test is to KNOW a light that does not trip by the metal in your Burg, time it and then try several methods. The only problem is that you will collect a LOT of ferrous debris on your shoe magnet and have to clean it frequently. Most of it is in the form of ferrous bits and small things.

I made some inquiries to the local city government and complained about my scoot not activating certain lights in a timely manner (or at all) and in the past few months, all of the lights have been readjusted to have better sensitivity on the coils. There was one very troublesome traffic signal north of town, out in the county that simply would NEVER trip for my scooter, no matter what I did or where I placed the bike. That was really the place where I tested things, and the only thing that worked to trip that light was my boot-magnet. Every time. NO magnet that I installed on the bottom of the scoot ever tripped that light. Ever. The distance between the road surface and magnet was too much (after all if the magnet is THAT Powerful you'll be sucking up all sorts of metallic and ferrous road debris as well) or the magnets did not put out the correct field. Again, I tried different magnets on different places on the bike. I revisited this after I did my boot magnet as well to just make sure I wasn't missing something somewhere. And was satisfied with my boot mod. However, as I have two pairs of boots that I rotate, as noted above, the city has readjusted the sensors and I don't really need the boot-magnet much any more as the Burg trips them OK.

And another thing I found is that pea gravel has a LOT of metallic 'stones' in it as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet
 
#3 ·
Alot of contreversy with these ''magnet fixes''. Some swear by them, some say its just another form of snake oil. Not sure if I read it here, or on another forum, but one person apperantly worked on these traffic devices and he said that a magnet would have no effect whatsoever on the sensor.

97.5% of the time I have no problem tripping the sensor with my burgman, I just aim for the when I pull up to the light as 95% of the time there are grooves where they were placed, and it always trips the light. The other 5% of the time I guess where the sensor is at, 80% of the time I guessed right, 20% I guessed wrong and try to reposition. If it goes through 2 or 3 changes, or about 5-7 minutes and it doesn't change (usually by then a car behind me pulls up and triggers it) I will catiously and carefully run the light, or proceed on and do a u-turn, just depending on the situation.
 
#4 ·
TheDarkCutlass said:
Some swear by them, some say its just another form of snake oil. Not sure if I read it here, or on another forum, but one person apperantly worked on these traffic devices and he said that a magnet would have no effect whatsoever on the sensor.

97.5% of the time I have no problem tripping the sensor with my burgman, I just aim for the when I pull up to the light as 95% of the time there are grooves where they were placed, and it always trips the light. The other 5% of the time I guess where the sensor is at, 80% of the time I guessed right, 20% I guessed wrong and try to reposition. If it goes through 2 or 3 changes, or about 5-7 minutes and it doesn't change (usually by then a car behind me pulls up and triggers it) I will catiously and carefully run the light, or proceed on and do a u-turn, just depending on the situation.
For the most part that's what I did/do when I encountered a recalcitrant traffic sensor. I will wait a full light change to see it it notices me. An observant cop won't ticket you because it's not your fault the sensor did not pick you up, and provided you execute the maneuver with no safety issues.

I'm sure you know this but for benefit of the new reader or inquisitive mind: The sensor is basically just a coil of wire, inserted into the pavement (they are not generally buried beneath it as that moves the sensor too far below the level of what it has to detect). It's basically the same thing as a run-of-the-mill metal detector, except that instead of being "above" what you are detecting, you are beneath it. It operates on the process of 'induction' - that is, the metal detector consists of an oscillator producing an alternating current that passes through a coil producing an alternating magnetic field. As the direction of the current changes, the magnetic field is created around the coil and then it collapses as the current is reversed and the field gets 'rebuilt' in opposite polarity. If a piece of electrically conductive metal is close to the coil, eddy currents will be induced in the metal, and this produces an alternating magnetic field of its own. If another coil is used to measure the magnetic field (acting as a magnetometer), the change in the magnetic field due to the metallic object can be detected. The traffic sensor is just a 'reverse' of this process - instead of carrying the coil around and waving it or passing it over metal, the buried loop waits until a large chunk of metal (engine, body, other parts) passes over it. When the change is sensed, it trips the lights.

On our metal detector we have a knob for sensitivity, and it's adjusted for how deep I want to look and what I want to look for. The traffic sensor is adjusted the same way, though we are talking about HUGE chunks of metal here. So it only needs ONE wire, basically, or a series of them connected so it can detect how far back the traffic is backed up, etc. If it's not adjusted correctly then smaller chunks of metal can be missed (ie a motorcycle, ATV, etc). All you are looking for is a disturbance in the field. Now the person who said that magnets don't work is incorrect. Any magnet of sufficient strength will be quite capable of disturbing the electromagnetic field around the coil. The key is that the metal or magnet must be MOVED sufficiently to induce eddy currents in the field. Essentially, the magnet 'simulates' a chunk of metal that has been moved into proximity to the sensor. So if if you have one turned off, and place a metal chunk near it and turn it on, and do not move it, it will not alert. Same principal - if the magnet is not of sufficient strength to induce a current or is not moved enough, the sensor will ignore it. That is why rare earth magnets are used - they create an very strong field for their size, and provided that the field or 'end' of the magnet is pointed in the right direction, it will disturb all but the numbest of sensors. The one thing that defeats these $20 devices is the distance above the pavement being too much, and the way the field is oriented off the magnets.

I discovered that one traffic sensor in my experiments that was and still is, 'numb' to everything but cars, trucks and my boot-magnet.

The loop detectors, are starting to disappear as cities move to computerized camera controls (much more accurate system). Out in rural areas, though, the loop detectors will still probably be used, and if it does not detect you, it's no real issue to 'run the light'. But as for snake oil, yes and NO. Yes in that without careful consideration of the distance, strength and mounting position of the magnets it's snake oil. No in that they CAN work if properly used.

If you want to get down and dirty, you could calculate it, depending on the size and shape of your magnet. However, in the interest of not having to place a lot of algebraic mumbo-jumbo here, basically as you move away from the magnet, the 'strength' of that field is inversely proportional to the distance. But actually the magnetic field drops off much faster as you move away from the source. And this all depends on structure of the magnet itself. Placing magnets under the motorcycle will distort the magnet's field as well, and that distortion could, in effect, render the magnet useless as a traffic sensor tripper.

Wikipedia has a good discussion of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

Bottom line, though: For $20, it's worth a try and if it works, it works. If not, get your money back. There are a lot of things to have controversy over, but magnets ain't one of 'em!

:cheers:
 
#6 ·
I guess what I should of meant by the snake oil comment is the kind that you attatch to your bike maybe.

I do remember when I was a kid, I remember being on the back of my dads GL1500, and when a light did not trip, he could actually just take the steel-toed boots he wore and basicly just ''tapped'' the sensor with his toe to get it to trip.
 
#7 ·
I too ride with steel toe and shank boots. Never a problem for me to trip a light. Also try HOLDING the rear brake lever and GOOSING the gas some, just on and off real quick. This will squat the bike down closer to the sensor. DaveJ
 
#9 ·
You could also put a rare earth magnet on a leash and toss it down near where you suspect the wire to be (sometimes you can see an outline of it on the pavement) and that would be cause for the sensor to trip the signal.
 
#10 ·
CalvinFold said:
If you worked-on and understood how modern traffic signals "detect" vehicles, you'd know with certainty that these signal-tripping gizmos don't work. Any evidence to the contrary is serendipitous at best.
Then can work, but as I stated above, there are several variables that have to be addressed - first of which is the distance between the magnet and the road surface. And depending on the magnet and how it's magnet field is oriented (horizontal will be useless while a vertical field is best) will affect the sensor, and the type and strength of the magnet. Yea most of what I've seen and had the opportunity to get my hands on are somewhat LONG and attach underneath and just don't work that good. It's apparent that the field is not effective, but if you get it close enough, it could work. That's why I liked my boot-magnet. I see now that you can buy some rare earth magnets that dangle off your bootlaces. Provided they are strong enough and you place your foot properly, it will work as well. However, the best thing is to call the local city engineer and raise the issue with that person.
 
#11 ·
I have a Signal Sorcerer (one of the very last ones), and it works so-so. It does help on some lights. There's one particular light, though, that I have given up on. I can take another route and avoid it, so I do. The problem is that the intersection has been repaved, and that extra layer of asphalt on top of the coil makes it very difficult to trip.

I mounted the magnet on the center stand, on the left leg. That places it about as low as it can be and in the proper orientation. Haven't had any problems with it staying on, either. (Although I added a heavy zip tie to help the double stick tape.)

YMMV
 
#12 ·
On of the issues in mounting a magnet to a piece of fferrous metal is that it seriously distorts the magnetic field, such that the metal it is mounted to or stuck on can almost render it useless (the magnet lines of flux are just to distorted). As ann extreme example, enclose a magnet in a steel can, or attach it to one side of a small sheet of metal and see how 'attractive' it is (both behind the metal and near the magnet itself and see how well it works. It doesn't do very well as the 'attractivn' of the magnet seems to be used up on the metal. That's how devices are magnetically shielded.

If you want something that really works ALL the time, tear apart a computer disk drive and remove the rare earth magnets. You can use of of them, and modify it to mount on your boot somehow (velcro would work as you really only need it when you are actually riding - and when you are not riding you don't want bits of metal stuck on your magnet) and bingo, problem solved. It puts the magnet down right where you need it.... LoL... I'll post a pic here of my boot magnet.
 
#13 ·
My favorite place to get Neodymium (rare-earth) magnets...KJ Magnetics.

You're right, magnets this strong (especially N52 grade or stronger) might work. Of course, one big enough to work consistantly would be impossible to remove by hand once you let it place itself. Probably be strong enough to keep the centerstand from ever coming down. ;)

I've used these magnets for projects needing self-alignment or where magnetism itself is used as a fastener. I can tell you that N52 grade hollow cylinders at 1/2" long are very hard to pull apart from each other. This grade is also less affected by being attached to something. So get a big bar of that on the centerstand, you might have something. ;)

You're right though, it's easier just to get public works to fix them. They can, if they want to, make them sensitive enough to be triggered by bicycles, if so inclined. Also, in areas with approach detectors, triggering those as you approach the stop-bar helps alot, as they tend to be set differently for moving targets--the approach detector can start the cycle even if the stop-bar detector can't see you.

But any magnet weak enough that it needs to be secured by straps or ties is likely too weak to actually work in any consistant, repeatable manner.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the suggestion, Kevin, but a 700#+ pull magnet on the bottom of the bike would be a bit much. Cleaning all the magnetic road debris off would be a major hassle. Then again, I'd never get a flat tire on the rear. :lol:

Interesting site, though, I've got it bookmarked now.
 
#15 ·
chuckp73 said:
Thanks for the suggestion, Kevin, but a 700#+ pull magnet on the bottom of the bike would be a bit much. Cleaning all the magnetic road debris off would be a major hassle. Then again, I'd never get a flat tire on the rear. :lol:
Hey, at least you'd know it has enough of a gauss rating to actually affect an induction detector. ;)

But you'd probably never get the centerstand down ever again, and wipe out any credit cards in the trunk. No straps or ties required to hold it to the bike though. :lol:
 
#16 ·
chuckp73 said:
Thanks for the suggestion, Kevin, but a 700#+ pull magnet on the bottom of the bike would be a bit much. Cleaning all the magnetic road debris off would be a major hassle. Then again, I'd never get a flat tire on the rear. :lol:

Interesting site, though, I've got it bookmarked now.
let's see now, a 700 pound pull magnet underneath a 600 pound motorscooter going across a set of rural tracks, a 70 mile an hour Amtrak, you get my drift. it wouldn't be pretty. How about going across a metal bridge joint? I don't know about your Burgman but mine didn't come with seat belts. Great way to check your helmet though when you land. :alien:
 
#17 ·
You'd be surprised at the metal debris that my boot magnet picks up. Bits of metal, small pebbles with iron content, and stuff that looks like, bits of metal sand. It's just out there all over the place.
 
#18 ·
Well I read this post twice and did not read any sugestions on useing the starter motor at a traffic control device [stop light] that uses a trigger device in the ground.
I have a an400k5,vf750cd 95 and a 05 vtx 1300. none of them will trip all the lights I stop at. so I don't wait to see if i triped it the usual way I just go ahead and use the starter motor[turn off turn on]. So far I have never had to run a red light caus it wouln't change.
Ron C. near Pleasant Plane Ohio
 
#19 ·
now that idea of the starter motor turning off/ on is really interesting.
I have a section of road where we always have trouble waiting for light.. I think I will try that on Sunday if the weather holds for riding. I'll let you know after the ride.
Thanks for the idea!