So, is this something you have 'done' or a 'Want to do' thing? If you have done it then please post pictures and explain how and what parts are needed.

 

I have a honest question, as an ignorant on the subject:

from the moment the ABS start to modulate the brake pressure, how the braking "power" matters anymore? Is'nt just "wasted" by the ABS?


Also, this

With pictures and drawing with measures of the custom brakets, please!

 

Not at all. The ABS kicks in when the wheel stops turning, even for a split second, usually under slippery/wet conditions. But, in dry condition, the ABS doesn't really kick in, unless you brake so hard that the wheel stops turning.

This setup mimics a sport bike setup, large diameter discs and ABS, no problem. But, when I hit the front brake I actually stop on a dime, as opposed to sliding (slowly coming to a stop) with the original discs.

 

... the ABS doesn't really kick in, unless you brake so hard that the wheel stops turning ... when I hit the front brake I actually stop on a dime, as opposed to sliding (slowly coming to a stop) with the original discs.

This is the part i don't get, sorry

Following your explanation: suppose we both are on the same road, at the same speed and in the exact same conditions apart from your bigger disks and mine stock ones. Now we want to stop in a given space, and that given space will be shorter each new test.

I get that you have to press your right lever less than me to stop in the same space, but the limit to how much we can brake is'nt the tire grip? Soon or later, while trying to stop in a too short space, the ABS will kick in for both of us... or not?

 

Great job, I like the ingenuity, I for one don't have a problem with the stock discs, I was trained to use both bakes simultaneously and have been since I began riding. On the other hand, one problem I see with the bigger discs that I have right now with the stock ones is putting air in the front tire. I currently have a straight air stem and yesterday I tried putting air in my tire and it was a bear just getting the hose on the nozzle with the stock disc. With the bigger disc putting air in the tire seems like it would be even harder if not impossible if one didn't have the bent air stems installed.

 

Thank you for the compliment. Putting air into the front tire is actually easier, because the discs have quite big holes in them. All I do is guide the air hose through the disc right onto the valve stem.

 

Ok I see the holes are much bigger. In that case, I retract my previous statement, GREAT JOB. :grin

 

Thanks again, and no worries. We are all here to put our heads together and come up with something better. I'm a former motorcycle racer, part time motorcycle mechanic and huge Burgy fan.

I get to work on and ride motorcycles that most people can only dream about (being a mechanic). I get to see anything and everything from Minimotos to Gold Wings. I do lot of brake jobs, and I can tell you first hand what difference disc rotor size makes, along with proper 4 piston calipers and good quality brake pads.

In my humble opinion Burgy has none of those things mentioned above. I was looking at installing 4 piston calipers, but the front wheel is asymetrical, and even the narrowest calipers won't fit, only on one side. Oh boy, that would make a HUGE difference.

I highly recommend replacing the brake pads for Ferodos. FDB570 is the recommended pad, HOWEVER the FDB664s fit just fine, and the they are much thicker. Benefit: better braking, longer pad life, less brake fluid in the lines - stiffer system.

Add a bigger circumference rotor to the equation and the braking power increases quite significantly.

I ride all kinds of sport bikes on a daily basis. They are much lighter than our Burgies, yet their braking power is significantly higher/better. With a sport bike I can stop on a dime if anything happens in front of me, but with Burgy, not so much ...

That's what triggered me ...

 

Here is another view of the pads I'm talking about.

 

I never had braking issues even 2 up with my ride. Did you check to make sure all of the air was out of the system before you went for the bigger rotors?

 

Excellent idea that well done. Couple of questions do you have any trouble getting the calliper off the rotor or is it just a case of wriggling and opening the pads up to get it off?
What did you make the carrier brackets from aluminium or Steel?
Would you be willing to share the dimensions for the brackets with us mere mortals
For those who are unbelievers bigger discs do improve braking I have copied this from an engineering web site for the unbelievers


The disk size has two items to address: diameter and thickness. The diameter is easier to understand and easier to see. As a simple rule, the larger diameter of the rotor, the more force that is available to stop a wheel, just like using a longer wrench makes it easier to break a frozen bolt loose. If you kept the same caliper and same pads, but installed a larger diameter rotor, you would get greater stopping power. This power can be referenced in Newton-meters of torque. Factory rotors are sized according to many factors: wheel sizes, calipers used, unsprung weight, tires, price, etc. Initially, it would seem that the largest diameter rotor that can be obtained should be used, but those other factors must be kept in mind. Even, a reasonably larger diameter rotor will provide increased stopping power.

 

Couple of questions do you have any trouble getting the calliper off the rotor or is it just a case of wriggling and opening the pads up to get it off?

On the money. Yes, the calipers being much closer to the rim, won't come off just like before. The pin holging the pads has to be removed first, pads pulled out, and the calipers come off, no problem, Re-assembly in reverse.

What did you make the carrier brackets from aluminium or Steel?

T6061 aircraft grade aluminum, that's what my buddy had on hand in his shop

Would you be willing to share the dimensions for the brackets with us mere mortals

I'd like to share the dimensions, but I can't. The buddy of mine drew everything up in his 3D CNC machine program based on my input. It took us roughly 6-8hrs just to do that. Then came the machining part, another few hours, until we got everything right.

In the beginning I tried using my own milling machine, but after a few minutes I realized that these brackets MUST be made to PERFECTION, and MUST be identical, so without proper CNC machine don't even think about making these.

If anyone is interested I could perhaps work something out with my buddy to make a few more pieces. Then hit Ebay, and buy some used discs. Here is a list of compatible discs to make ones life a bit easier:

310mm discs:
Fitment:
Suzuki GSR400 2006-2010
Suzuki DL650 V-STROM 2007-2012
Suzuki DL650 V-STROM-ABS 2007-2015
Suzuki GSF650 BANDIT 2007-2012
Suzuki GSF650 BANDIT-ABS 2011-2014
Suzuki GSF650 BANDIT S 2007-2012
Suzuki GSX650F 2008-2012
Suzuki GSX650F-ABS 2008-2014
Suzuki GSR750 2011-2014
Suzuki GSR750 -ABS 2011-2014
Suzuki DL1000 V-STROM-ABS 2014-2015
Suzuki GSF1200 BANDIT 2006
Suzuki GSF 1250 BANDIT 2007-2011
Suzuki GSF 1250 BANDIT S 2011-2012
Suzuki GSF 1250 BANDIT S-ABS 2012-2015
Suzuki GSX 1250 FA 2010-2015
Suzuki B-KING 2008-2010
Suzuki GSXR1300 HAYABUSA 2008-2015

Suzuki Motorcycle 2008 B-KING - GSX1300BKA FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKK8/K9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2008 B-KING - GSX1300BK FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKK8/K9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2008 B-KING - GSX1300BK FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKAK8/AK9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2008 B-KING - GSX1300BKA FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKAK8/AK9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2008 HAYABUSA - GSX1300R Front Wheel - MINE !!!
Suzuki Motorcycle 2009 GSX1300BK FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKAK8/AK9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2009 GSX1300BKA FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKAK8/AK9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2009 GSX1300BK FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKK8/K9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2009 GSX1300BKA FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKK8/K9)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2009 HAYABUSA - GSX1300R Front Wheel
Suzuki Motorcycle 2011 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RL1 Front Wheel
Suzuki Motorcycle 2012 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RL2 Front Wheel
Suzuki Motorcycle 2013 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RAL3 FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300RAL3 E33)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2013 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RAL3 FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300RAL3 E03)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2013 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RAL3 FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300RAL3 E28)
Suzuki Motorcycle 2014 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RAL4 Front Wheel
Suzuki Motorcycle 2015 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RAL5 Front Wheel
Suzuki Motorcycle 2016 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RAL6 Front Wheel
Suzuki Motorcycle 2017 HAYABUSA - GSX1300RAL7 Front Wheel

 

It was not the issue of having soft brake levers (air in the system), but rather long (or much longer) stopping distance compared to sport bikes traveling the same speed. Huge difference.

If you never ridden a sport bike, and Burgy is your only benchmark, than can't really know the difference. Regardless, with proper Sintered brake pads and larger rotors I feel at least 50% more braking power. Far from the Brembos, but lot better than stock. I had a huge smile on my face the other day coming back from my pilot ride with the new setup. It worked as planned :wink

 

Rotor fits these models listed below. I am intrigued by this thread Antidot and I think it is an excellent idea. so can you answer my questions as above
2008 B-KING (GSX1300BK) - FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKK
2008 B-KING (GSX1300BK) - FRONT WHEEL (GSX1300BKAK
2008 B-KING (GSX1300BKA) - FRONT WHEEL
(GSX1300BKK2008 B-KING (GSX1300BKA) - FRONT WHEEL
(GSX1300BKAK2008 Hayabusa (GSX1300R) - FRONT WHEEL
2009 Hayabusa (GSX1300R) - FRONT WHEEL
2011 Hayabusa (GSX1300R) - FRONT WHEEL
2012 Hayabusa (GSX1300R) - FRONT WHEEL
2013 GSX1300RA - FRONT WHEEL
(GSX1300RAL3 E032013 GSX1300RA - FRONT WHEEL
(GSX1300RAL3 E28)2013 GSX1300RA - FRONT WHEEL
(GSX1300RAL3 E33)<2014 GSX1300RA - FRONT WHEEL<
2014 GSX1300RAZ - FRONT WHEEL2015 GSX1300RA - FRONT WHEEL
2016 GSX1300R-A - FRONT WHEEL2017 GSX1300R-A - FRONT WHEEL
Time lag just noticed you did cheers

 

I am probably analysing this too much but one has to ask these questions. The bracket seems a little overly complicated was this a design decision or driven by necessity. Would a simpler bracket that made the caliper similar to a radial calliper not have been easier. Did the brake hose influence the need to raise the calliper up?

 

It may seem complicated, although I would rather call it complex. Lot of curves, different planes, angles etc. There is NO other way of doing this. When you want to move the calipers up and away from the forks, you have to create a piece that fits the fork on one side and the brake caliper on the other on two different planes.

Radial calipers won't work, as they usually have 4 pistons, 2 on each side, so that won't fit with the wheel. They are quite wide. I had looked at some older narrow Honda 4 piston calipers, but all of them would have been way too close to the rim for my comfort level. But, the braking power would have been even greater.

The brake line did not play any part in the process, I actually had to push it up maybe 1/4 inch.

 

It may seem complicated, although I would rather call it complex. Lot of curves, different planes, angles etc. There is NO other way of doing this. When you want to move the calipers up and away from the forks, you have to create a piece that fits the fork on one side and the brake caliper on the other on two different planes.

Radial calipers won't work, as they usually have 4 pistons, 2 on each side, so that won't fit with the wheel. They are quite wide. I had looked at some older narrow Honda 4 piston calipers, but all of them would have been way too close to the rim for my comfort level. But, the braking power would have been even greater.

I think my explanation was poor sorry. What I was thinking was a simple stepped plate so it went behind the forks as the calliper did with two threaded holes and then had a step outwards so the calliper bolted behind it the same way it bolted behind the forks. Yours does this but in a complicated way/ Just think of it as two plates one on top of the other forming a step. Not as pretty but functional

 

I understand, and that was my initial approach, as well. A stepped plate. However, very soon it became clear that "such a thing" is easier said than done.

How do you make that "step" of 13mm? You can't. Have to get a chunk of aluminum, and machine it down to make it look like a stepped plate, what actually this bracket is.

Both surfaces MUST be parallel to a hair, every hole drilled in an EXACT place etc. Can't be hand made ...

 

I understand, and that was my initial approach, as well. A stepped plate. However, very soon it became clear that "such a thing" is easier said than done.

How do you make that "step" of 13mm? You can't. Have to get a chunk of aluminum, and machine it down to make it look like a stepped plate, what actually this bracket is.

Both surfaces MUST be parallel to a hair, every hole drilled in an EXACT place etc. Can't be hand made ...

Something like this but without all the curves.

 

call me ignant (everybydy does) but I don't understand how this works, if you change the part that gets grabbed but don't change the grabby part, you still only have ethe sgtrength of dthe grabby part, the surface area making contact is still the same, and the grabber is still the same , only the thickness of the rotor has been changed (naybe,) and the size of the ring, I can see heat fade being affected (maybe) so great for long braking down from nount everest but not much else, I personally am not planning to do a stoppie on a burgman but one of my accidents could have been prevented with a foot less stopping distance (or staying at home)

 

It appears he wants 2 finger braking. Other than that...I see it as you do. A good 650 brake system will lock the front wheel. Doesn't matter if you have a pillion or a pillion & a trailer. Your tire grip will be the limiter. I'd rather have to 'lean' on the brakes than have all that power. If your front wheel is locked by Busa rotors or Burg rotors...no difference.

 

ok got the lever part, understand that now, (and I'm still purty as I ever was, just smarter now) the whole mod is apparenetly to make it easier for your hand to apply the same amount of force to the wheel , doesn't change anything else, until abs stops at low speed, then gives a longer lever advantage to the hand, ok great , I coulda grabbed a dime and squeezed six nickles out of it when I hit the truck, but wieth this system I coulda squeezed 8 and still hit the truck. because of the skid, it still wouldn't have given me the foot I needed. (actually only about 9 inches as the dent in the truck was 8 inches deep the other 4 inches were gouges in the asphalt made by my helmet)

 

I didn't expect this many comments, some on the money, some way off. I'll try to clear up a few things for all interested parties.

This is quite common sense, Mr. Newton proved it a few hundred years back, and pretty much every mechanical engineer including even amateur mechanics know that when you do twisting or turning, the more you're away from the center, the more torque you can create with the SAME amount of FORCE.

The same is true when braking with a motorcycle. Larger diameter disc, better braking (negative torque) with the SAME amount of FORCE. If you add larger friction parameter into the equation (better quality brake pads), all the better. Capiche?

It is PARTIALLY true that squeezing harder a 260mm disc system (Burgy) will work like a 310mm system. To a certain degree.

If you go to higher speeds 80mph and up, you'll see that squeezing a 260mm system will NOT work the same as squeezing a 310mm system. Take a sport bike, go to an empty road, hit 80mph, and apply the brakes. You'll see the difference.

City speed at 40mph is nothing, you can do Flintstone braking and you'll stop. In my case I got into trouble within a split second doing 70mph, and I pulled in the brake lever with ALL the strength I had, and the Burgy still wasn't slowing down enough (compared to sport bikes with bigger brakes). So, I hit my braking limit with my finger strength, couldn't go no more. The brake lines were expanding a bit, as well (another topic).I really got lucky this time.

So, I had two choices. Increase my grip (finger) strength by going to a gym and pumping up my fingers (sounds stupid right), or increase braking power with the SAME fingers.

Now, with bigger brakes I can produce 50% (my estimate) more braking power with the SAME amount of force (my finger strength).

Do I need this? Not on a daily basis. Do you need 100HP in a motorcycle, not on a daily basis. But it's good to have it when you overtake other vehicles and get into a "scissor" situation. Open the throttle, and woosh ....

Same with braking. Am I going to wrinkle the pavement every time I brake, **** NO. But, if I get into a situation when I have to stop very quickly, bigger discs will give me shorter braking distance compared to smaller discs, period!

Who needs bigger discs or who doesn't is a subjective matter. Everybody has to decide for themselves. I strongly feel that at higher speeds the Burgy brakes a grossly under-performing, given the sheer weight of the vehicle, speeds it can reach, plus passengers on top, compared to similar "weight/speed/passenger" sport bikes. Simple, no?

This is an option for better NEGATIVE acceleration. People go for more HP all the time, but forget the other side of the equation, that stopping is just as important, if not more ...

PS
Forget about the ABS system, has nothing to do with this. All modern bikes have ABS, even 320mm discs, no problem at all. ABS kicks in under slippery conditions and/or prevents you from locking up the front to do a stoppie, as well.

 

The same is true when braking with a motorcycle. Larger diameter disc, better braking (negative torque) with the SAME amount of FORCE. If you add larger friction parameter into the equation (better quality brake pads), all the better. Capiche?

This was'nt the part that i did'nt capiche. I'm pretty solid with this concept.

It is PARTIALLY true that squeezing harder a 260mm disc system (Burgy) will work like a 310mm system. To a certain degree.
If you go to higher speeds 80mph and up, you'll see that squeezing a 260mm system will NOT work the same as squeezing a 310mm system. Take a sport bike, go to an empty road, hit 80mph, and apply the brakes. You'll see the difference.

Here is where you switch from physics to feelings. Sadly, i don't have sports bikes available, neither straight empty roads. I have to stop asking here, 'cause i'll never see the difference.

So, I hit my braking limit with my finger strength, couldn't go no more. [...] Now, with bigger brakes I can produce 50% (my estimate) more braking power with the SAME amount of force (my finger strength).

This part was totally missed from my part, maybe i've skipped some line in the posts above.
I have no problem at squeezing the lever almost to the handle grips (sure, it's hard), and for what i can see the wheel should already locks way before i reach that position. But if your problem was you reached your maximum hand strenght, then i understand why you've done this mod.

 

I didn't fix anything, nor was that the goal. I've upgraded Burgy's braking power, and explained how I went about it, and why.

Everything else is subjective. I'm not here to convince anybody to do anything. This was MY case, and my way of solving MY problem. It was MY choice, and wanted to share my experience with other fellow riders.

Likewise, if someone replaced incandescent bulbs with LEDs, that doesn't automatically mean that there was a problem.

We all have our reasons for doing things in life.

I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings by commenting on Burgy's brakes at high speed. My humble apologies.

 

I didn't fix anything, nor was that the goal. I've upgraded Burgy's braking power, and explained how I went about it, and why.

Everything else is subjective. I'm not here to convince anybody to do anything. This was MY case, and my way of solving MY problem. It was MY choice, and wanted to share my experience with other fellow riders.

Likewise, if someone replaced incandescent bulbs with LEDs, that doesn't automatically mean that there was a problem.

We all have our reasons for doing things in life.

I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings by commenting on Burgy's brakes at high speed. My humble apologies.

Ignore the negative comments Antidot you did this because you could well done you. Nothing to prove just sharing.
This will always happen on every forum.
https://youtu.be/SYkbqzWVHZI?t=7

 

Dave_J, the EBC sintered HH pads are to be used strictly with hardened brake disc's ( rotors in Europe ), not sure if standard 650 OEM disc's are factory hardened or not, however this could explain brake disc wear you mention.

EBC developed a new carbon brake pad for Maxi-Scooters , do not know if available in North America yet:

https://ebcbrakes.com/product/sfac-series-carbon-scooter-pads/

.

 

I am getting 4-5 pad changes to a rotor so I am not too worried. I have only replaced 1 set of front rotors.

I like the faster stop. :grin

In rush hour(s) traffic I used the brakes a lot. Since retiring I have not used the brakes as much as I do not have cars cutting me off all the time. Its like the car drivers don't want to be behind a slow scooter on the freeway. :wink

 

Haha, so true :laugh:laugh:laugh

Thank you for your kind words.