Are the JIS srewdrivers something you can purchase at Harbor Freight or will I have to get them online. I was given the reservoir mounting plate, ball and 3 inch risor for the ram mount for my gps. I don't want to mess up the screws with a phillips head. Any suggestions.
wildhog
use a good quality #2 philips screw driver... HF has some decent screw driver sets.... I don't personally own any JIS screw drivers and I have never stripped a screw to date... just make sure that you have a good strong tight fit before turning the screw.
Same for me, I don't own JIS screwdrivers but have never had a problem stripping screw heads on my Burgmans. However if a screw is real tight I don't try to muscle it out. I use an impact driver to loosen it.
For you doubters out there, I'm not out to start a flame war, and I don't claim to be much of expert on anything, but I'd like to share some info if you're interested, and if you have an open mind:
A) I started a thread on this topic 2+ years ago: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28818 . If you have some free time (and the interest, and an open mind), read that multi-page thread.
B) You'll see a post down that first page, from Kory (Colchicine), here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28818#p277832 . Kory lives 500 - 600 miles from me, and I planned on meeting him on the way back from a (farther) ride to visit one of my daughters. I brought along a couple of Klein brand phillips screwdrivers, and a couple of my JIS ones. (Klein makes very high quality stuff, and they're relatively expensive. One of things that I discovered years back, when I had a Valkyrie and was looking into this topic, and which surprised me, was that Craftsman is relative junk, at least when it comes to phillips screwdrivers. The Kleins are MUCH better and I now use them whenever I need a plain ol' phillips screwdriver.)
In any event, to try to convince someone whom I'd never met that I wasn't a complete idiot, I had brought along a collection of screwdrivers. You can read his response in that post, above.
C) If you use good stuff like the Kleins, you may never strip a phillips-like screw head. However, if you instead use a JIS screwdriver on a JIS head, you'll have better grip and you run much less chance of even slightly buggering the slots, especially over a long period. I particularly recommend them for the brake reservoir screws. (And, yes, I can see that using an impact driver also reduces the chances of buggering a recalcitrant screw head, but one's not really appropriate for normally tight screws.) I use the JIS #2 for routine maintenance on the Burger - the maintenance lid, the tupperware screws - in order not to damage them over time.
What I'd like to leave you with is this: if you ever get a chance - as I provided for Kory - to compare and contrast JIS with non-JIS screwdrivers, on JIS screw heads, I recommend you avail yourself of the opportunity... because I think you'll surprise yourselves.
A) I started a thread on this topic 2+ years ago: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28818 . If you have some free time (and the interest, and an open mind), read that multi-page thread.
B) You'll see a post down that first page, from Kory (Colchicine), here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28818#p277832 . Kory lives 500 - 600 miles from me, and I planned on meeting him on the way back from a (farther) ride to visit one of my daughters. I brought along a couple of Klein brand phillips screwdrivers, and a couple of my JIS ones. (Klein makes very high quality stuff, and they're relatively expensive. One of things that I discovered years back, when I had a Valkyrie and was looking into this topic, and which surprised me, was that Craftsman is relative junk, at least when it comes to phillips screwdrivers. The Kleins are MUCH better and I now use them whenever I need a plain ol' phillips screwdriver.)
In any event, to try to convince someone whom I'd never met that I wasn't a complete idiot, I had brought along a collection of screwdrivers. You can read his response in that post, above.
C) If you use good stuff like the Kleins, you may never strip a phillips-like screw head. However, if you instead use a JIS screwdriver on a JIS head, you'll have better grip and you run much less chance of even slightly buggering the slots, especially over a long period. I particularly recommend them for the brake reservoir screws. (And, yes, I can see that using an impact driver also reduces the chances of buggering a recalcitrant screw head, but one's not really appropriate for normally tight screws.) I use the JIS #2 for routine maintenance on the Burger - the maintenance lid, the tupperware screws - in order not to damage them over time.
What I'd like to leave you with is this: if you ever get a chance - as I provided for Kory - to compare and contrast JIS with non-JIS screwdrivers, on JIS screw heads, I recommend you avail yourself of the opportunity... because I think you'll surprise yourselves.
Gotta go along with Quantum here. Had a real problem, like most everyone else, with the bar end weights. Even slipped them off and tried everything to try and turn that darned screw to attempt to tighten them up just a tad more. Used a vice, tapped on it, liquid wrench and nothing worked because I just couldn't seem to get the phillips to grip. Kept wanting to slip and I'd back off not wanting to screw up the heads. Took Quantum's advice and ordered a set, removed the bar end weights, a bit of liquid wrench and the new screw driver worked like a charm. Added a bit of gasket type glue to the inside of the handle bars and the rubber expanders, replaced them and really torqued on the set screw with that JIS phillips. Haven't had a loose weights since.
Thanks for the tip Quantum. I owe you an adult beverage of your choice.
Dave
Thanks for the tip Quantum. I owe you an adult beverage of your choice.
Dave
2021 UDATE ON JIS SCREWDRIVERS
It's been a dozen or so years since I appear to have introduced the topic of JIS screwdrivers on BurgmanUSA. This resulted in a fair amount of comments, some disagreements, and, I think, a lively discussion. In any event, I thought I'd update the availability of these screwdrivers, along with a few additional comments.
A Brief Recap:
In 2008 I started this thread:
www.burgmanusa.com
I noted that plain ol' Phillips screwdrivers were not optimum for removing some of the screws on the Big Burgers, particularly the brake reservoir cover screws. This likely applies to other Burgman models, and lots of other bikes (especially Japanese-made ones).
In addition to my initial post, if you go to post #14 (Proper Screwdriver for Brake Reservoir Covers), you'll read that long-time BUSA member Kory (@Colchicine) verified my findings, after I rode down from NY to VA with a few screwdrivers among my belongings.
The State of JIS and Screwdrivers Since Then:
It appears that JIS has been essentially superseded by the more universal DIN 5260-ph standard (and perhaps some other related DIN standards). You can do your own research on the history of JIS and evolving DIN standards, if you're interested in that topic. The point is that you may or may not see this type of screwdriver labeled as "JIS," or DIN-such-and-such, or even "crosspoint," but they are all very similar, and they are all NOT "Phillips" screwdrivers.
And I've acquired a few more such screwdrivers since 2008:
![93048]( "93048")
[Note: disregard, for the moment, the two rightmost, non-JIS, screwdrivers.]
In the non-Phillips realm, the three on the left are my go-to screwdrivers, ever since I bought them in 2018. I got them from a company called Go Fast Innovations:
Note that those prices are in Canadian loonies, and the last time I ordered a set (for a friend, in 2020) the shipping was included in the price.
These are very beefy and well-made screwdrivers, with nice grippy yet somewhat flexible, um, grips. And you can pound on the metal non-tip end with a hammer, I suppose, although I've never done that.
These appear to be the same set available on (the US version of) Amazon, either with or without additional bits:
(The brand is listed on Amazon as "RIFTWILD," but my searching indicates that that's a powersports distributor, not a manufacturer. Who knows.)
Moving rightward past the three GoFast screwdrivers, the next four are the original Hozan screwdrivers, the ones I was using way back then.
The next two screwdrivers are the updated version of the Hozans. Actually, I have two more of these, but they're on the Burger now, in my tool ditty bag, under the seat, and I didn't feel like getting them out.
Here's that set on Amazon:
Their angular plastic handles provide a better grip than the ones on the earlier set. They're somewhat light-weight and correspondingly light-duty, but they’re also certainly cheap enough. These are the ones I'd recommend your buying, if you're just starting off in the world of JIS, or still need convincing that not all screws that look like Phillips head are actually Phillips screws.
Those tiny "0" and "00" sizes, by the way, are pretty rare on bikes. They do come in handy, though, when working with electronics, such as laptops and cameras.
Next is a packet of bits from JDV Products/Vessel Tools (Home). I rarely resort to using these bits, although I suppose they're good for tight spaces, where you might want to put one in a small 1/4" ratchet, for instance. (I save putting bits in an electric drill for special purposes, such as deck screws with special-purpose, perhaps "double-square," heads. I never put a Phillips or JIS bit in power equipment; you're just looking for trouble.)
There's a story with these Vessel bits.
Since its inception, the massive motorcycle site webBikeWorld was owned and managed by a sole proprietor, Rick Korchak. Before Rick sold that site to some corporation in 2017, I wrote about a dozen articles for wBW, as what you might call in the publishing biz a "stringer," and came to know Rick.
webBikeWorld published a few articles that involved JIS screwdrivers:
In terms of the utility of each bit, particularly in terms of fitting reservoir-cover screws (in that case, on a Victory bagger), some worked better than others. But, as I said earlier here, I hardly ever use the bits; I've included them here for completeness, is all.
Speaking of bits and completeness, if you're really into using bits, Motion Pro, a purveyor of assorted special-purpose motorcycle tools, also sells bits. It labels these "JIS Cross Point," so it covers several bases at once, in sizes 1, 2, and 3:
www.motionpro.com
These are available on Amazon, too, (at higher prices, although it may work out better if you get free shipping from Amazon). Just do a search of that site for Motion Pro JIS and you'll find them.
Finally, we come to the two screwdrivers on the far right. These are actual Phillips screwdrivers, made by Klein. I bought these in 2008, at the suggestion of @speed, who opined in that original thread that what I really needed were some high-quality Phillips screwdrivers.
It turns out that these are in fact very high quality. I recommend these screwdrivers, and they have become my go-to screwdrivers for actual Phillips heads. [Update to this update: but see the comments by @ibuzzard in post #22 below, regarding what he states to be the decline in Klein quality in recent years. This has apparently occurred since I bought mine in 2008.]
Just yesterday, I was doing some lock work at my daughter's house. And, not knowing what standards I would be dealing with, here's what I brought along in a bag of tools:
![93049]( "93049")
This is the same procedure I'd use if, say, a kitchen cabinet hinge is loose. That is, if it's not a slotted screwhead, go out to my toolbox and come back with #1 and #2 versions of Phillips and JIS screwdrivers, and see what fits best.
Here are the Kleins on Amazon (although, as I noted back then, I bought mine at Home Depot -- I don't know whether they still stock them):
As I say, the Kleins are very good screwdrivers. It was around that time that I learned just how crappy the tips on my Craftsman Phillips screwdrivers were. I still use the big #3 and #4 Craftsman Phillips -- and those are 40-something-years-old, so I give them credit for longevity -- for those very rare occasions that I encounter a Phillips head that large. Here's my screwdriver tray (minus, as I say, a few that are kept on bikes):
![93050]( "93050")
And I think that's it, for my screwdriver recommendations.
If it were up to me, we wouldn't be dealing with this at all. My riding buddy's Beemer uses Torx-head screws and bolts almost exclusively, and that's the direction I'd go if I were in charge of such things. The only decision you have to make on that bike is finding the proper size; once that's done, there is none of that potential for head-buggering, the kind you're trying to avoid when dealing with Phillips or even, to a lesser extent, JIS.
Happy motoring.
It's been a dozen or so years since I appear to have introduced the topic of JIS screwdrivers on BurgmanUSA. This resulted in a fair amount of comments, some disagreements, and, I think, a lively discussion. In any event, I thought I'd update the availability of these screwdrivers, along with a few additional comments.
A Brief Recap:
In 2008 I started this thread:
Proper Screwdriver for Brake Reservoir Covers
I just thought I'd share this with anyone interested, given the increased use of reservoir-cover add-ons and since I couldn't find anything in BUSA about it. The screws holding the brake-reservoir covers in place are Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) slotted, similar to but not Phillips...
www.burgmanusa.com
I noted that plain ol' Phillips screwdrivers were not optimum for removing some of the screws on the Big Burgers, particularly the brake reservoir cover screws. This likely applies to other Burgman models, and lots of other bikes (especially Japanese-made ones).
In addition to my initial post, if you go to post #14 (Proper Screwdriver for Brake Reservoir Covers), you'll read that long-time BUSA member Kory (@Colchicine) verified my findings, after I rode down from NY to VA with a few screwdrivers among my belongings.
The State of JIS and Screwdrivers Since Then:
It appears that JIS has been essentially superseded by the more universal DIN 5260-ph standard (and perhaps some other related DIN standards). You can do your own research on the history of JIS and evolving DIN standards, if you're interested in that topic. The point is that you may or may not see this type of screwdriver labeled as "JIS," or DIN-such-and-such, or even "crosspoint," but they are all very similar, and they are all NOT "Phillips" screwdrivers.
And I've acquired a few more such screwdrivers since 2008:
[Note: disregard, for the moment, the two rightmost, non-JIS, screwdrivers.]
In the non-Phillips realm, the three on the left are my go-to screwdrivers, ever since I bought them in 2018. I got them from a company called Go Fast Innovations:
Note that those prices are in Canadian loonies, and the last time I ordered a set (for a friend, in 2020) the shipping was included in the price.
These are very beefy and well-made screwdrivers, with nice grippy yet somewhat flexible, um, grips. And you can pound on the metal non-tip end with a hammer, I suppose, although I've never done that.
These appear to be the same set available on (the US version of) Amazon, either with or without additional bits:
(The brand is listed on Amazon as "RIFTWILD," but my searching indicates that that's a powersports distributor, not a manufacturer. Who knows.)
Moving rightward past the three GoFast screwdrivers, the next four are the original Hozan screwdrivers, the ones I was using way back then.
The next two screwdrivers are the updated version of the Hozans. Actually, I have two more of these, but they're on the Burger now, in my tool ditty bag, under the seat, and I didn't feel like getting them out.
Here's that set on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Hozan JIS-4 JIS Screwdriver Set (New 3rd. Gen) (Japan Import): Home Improvement
Amazon.com: Hozan JIS-4 JIS Screwdriver Set (New 3rd. Gen) (Japan Import): Home Improvement
www.amazon.com
Their angular plastic handles provide a better grip than the ones on the earlier set. They're somewhat light-weight and correspondingly light-duty, but they’re also certainly cheap enough. These are the ones I'd recommend your buying, if you're just starting off in the world of JIS, or still need convincing that not all screws that look like Phillips head are actually Phillips screws.
Those tiny "0" and "00" sizes, by the way, are pretty rare on bikes. They do come in handy, though, when working with electronics, such as laptops and cameras.
Next is a packet of bits from JDV Products/Vessel Tools (Home). I rarely resort to using these bits, although I suppose they're good for tight spaces, where you might want to put one in a small 1/4" ratchet, for instance. (I save putting bits in an electric drill for special purposes, such as deck screws with special-purpose, perhaps "double-square," heads. I never put a Phillips or JIS bit in power equipment; you're just looking for trouble.)
There's a story with these Vessel bits.
Since its inception, the massive motorcycle site webBikeWorld was owned and managed by a sole proprietor, Rick Korchak. Before Rick sold that site to some corporation in 2017, I wrote about a dozen articles for wBW, as what you might call in the publishing biz a "stringer," and came to know Rick.
webBikeWorld published a few articles that involved JIS screwdrivers:
- JIS Screwdrivers (2011)
- Vessel JIS Screwdrivers Review (2013)
- Hozan JIS Screwdrivers Review (2016)
In terms of the utility of each bit, particularly in terms of fitting reservoir-cover screws (in that case, on a Victory bagger), some worked better than others. But, as I said earlier here, I hardly ever use the bits; I've included them here for completeness, is all.
Speaking of bits and completeness, if you're really into using bits, Motion Pro, a purveyor of assorted special-purpose motorcycle tools, also sells bits. It labels these "JIS Cross Point," so it covers several bases at once, in sizes 1, 2, and 3:
JIS Cross Point 1/4" Hex-Drive Bits - Motion Pro
Motion Pro - High quality cables, tools and controls for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and personal watercraft.
These are available on Amazon, too, (at higher prices, although it may work out better if you get free shipping from Amazon). Just do a search of that site for Motion Pro JIS and you'll find them.
Finally, we come to the two screwdrivers on the far right. These are actual Phillips screwdrivers, made by Klein. I bought these in 2008, at the suggestion of @speed, who opined in that original thread that what I really needed were some high-quality Phillips screwdrivers.
It turns out that these are in fact very high quality. I recommend these screwdrivers, and they have become my go-to screwdrivers for actual Phillips heads. [Update to this update: but see the comments by @ibuzzard in post #22 below, regarding what he states to be the decline in Klein quality in recent years. This has apparently occurred since I bought mine in 2008.]
Just yesterday, I was doing some lock work at my daughter's house. And, not knowing what standards I would be dealing with, here's what I brought along in a bag of tools:
This is the same procedure I'd use if, say, a kitchen cabinet hinge is loose. That is, if it's not a slotted screwhead, go out to my toolbox and come back with #1 and #2 versions of Phillips and JIS screwdrivers, and see what fits best.
Here are the Kleins on Amazon (although, as I noted back then, I bought mine at Home Depot -- I don't know whether they still stock them):
As I say, the Kleins are very good screwdrivers. It was around that time that I learned just how crappy the tips on my Craftsman Phillips screwdrivers were. I still use the big #3 and #4 Craftsman Phillips -- and those are 40-something-years-old, so I give them credit for longevity -- for those very rare occasions that I encounter a Phillips head that large. Here's my screwdriver tray (minus, as I say, a few that are kept on bikes):
And I think that's it, for my screwdriver recommendations.
If it were up to me, we wouldn't be dealing with this at all. My riding buddy's Beemer uses Torx-head screws and bolts almost exclusively, and that's the direction I'd go if I were in charge of such things. The only decision you have to make on that bike is finding the proper size; once that's done, there is none of that potential for head-buggering, the kind you're trying to avoid when dealing with Phillips or even, to a lesser extent, JIS.
Happy motoring.
i'll just add that, while the ability to hammer on the shaft of the go fast innovations versions is a neat feature, i can't recall the need to ever hammer since i got a proper JIS screwdriver. they just grab the JIS screw PROPERLY and out they come. thanks for the update re : the DIN nomenclature, going to check that out. i need both long and stubby versions of these.
Good info! Thanks wspollack. I'm looking for a T-handle driver. Likely aren't made in the configuration I am looking for. The ideal one would have a magnetic hexagon bit holder at the long end, a 1/4" socket holder at one end of the T-handle and a 3/8" socket holder at the other end of the T-handle. It would also have a spinning barrel down the long length of the shaft. Has anyone ever come across such a beast?
I purchased this puppy and it provided me with JIS heads. It's not a T-handle driver but the handle is pretty large. The bits also fit into a power drill/screwdriver. Works very well.
This is more of a problem in USA than other places and with old tools. US sellers tend to hang on to the older Phillips standard rather than the newer DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 standard now used in europe and Japan.
DIN 5260 is intended to be JIS compliant so it works with Philips and JIS.
My newest drivers are Wera (German but actually Czech made) and work fine on JIS screws right down to teeny tiny electronics.
When buying, look for sentences like “don’t cam out” and these are likely to be 5260. More expensive/known brands will mention the DIN/ISO. Phillips were designed to cam.
If you are stuck with ancient Philips tools you can try a trick I used to do and file/grind the tip flat and they tend to sit down into JIS screws better
Don‘t overheat the metal.
DIN 5260 is intended to be JIS compliant so it works with Philips and JIS.
My newest drivers are Wera (German but actually Czech made) and work fine on JIS screws right down to teeny tiny electronics.
When buying, look for sentences like “don’t cam out” and these are likely to be 5260. More expensive/known brands will mention the DIN/ISO. Phillips were designed to cam.
If you are stuck with ancient Philips tools you can try a trick I used to do and file/grind the tip flat and they tend to sit down into JIS screws better
Don‘t overheat the metal.
Back in the day, a phillips with a point was called a reed prince, never saw a screw designed for it. Changing screws to a different kind or to allen heads, care needs taken that dis similar metals problems do not occur such as corrosion and binding. Allen heads can be great, allen keys can be made of extremely soft material and wear rapidly, so extra vigilance on how sharp the corners are, especially if you have "helpers" who might use the wrong size and round them off.
My experience with hi torques / coin slots and scorpions in my skivvies is all about equally desireable!
@wspollack Thank you for reintroducing that thread. Thought I would not be too interested and almost passed on reading it, but glad I read yours and the following comments.
One comment, regarding the Klein Phillips screwdrivers. Those are what probably 90% or more of the Sparky’s I worked with throughout my career used, and continue to use daily. For at least the last 8-10 years prior to my retirement in 2017, I and others noted a decline in quality of the steel used in Klein’s screwdrivers, whether flat-tipped or Phillips. Used to be I would lose one before I would ever come close to rounding off a Phillips tip, but that is no longer true.
By the last five years before I retired, I was so pizzed-off at Klein, I deliberately began seeking out better quality (and more expensive) German and Swiss screwdriver sets. I loved them, but took crap for buying non-American tools, though I never threw down in disgust a rounded off screwdriver from a scissor-lift or knuckle-boom lift afterwards. Across their sizes, though, they sometimes were not identical to our American sizes. I still think we should change out our Phillips fasteners to Robertson screws, you Canadians are no dummies -eh?
One comment, regarding the Klein Phillips screwdrivers. Those are what probably 90% or more of the Sparky’s I worked with throughout my career used, and continue to use daily. For at least the last 8-10 years prior to my retirement in 2017, I and others noted a decline in quality of the steel used in Klein’s screwdrivers, whether flat-tipped or Phillips. Used to be I would lose one before I would ever come close to rounding off a Phillips tip, but that is no longer true.
By the last five years before I retired, I was so pizzed-off at Klein, I deliberately began seeking out better quality (and more expensive) German and Swiss screwdriver sets. I loved them, but took crap for buying non-American tools, though I never threw down in disgust a rounded off screwdriver from a scissor-lift or knuckle-boom lift afterwards. Across their sizes, though, they sometimes were not identical to our American sizes. I still think we should change out our Phillips fasteners to Robertson screws, you Canadians are no dummies -eh?
Robertson screw and bolt heads are great and hard to beat. I still don't know why straight slot headed fasteners are still used when compared to Phillips and Robertson.
Anything made with Chinese steel will be sub standard, I have a first cousin that works in the industry, he says quality control raw steel is inconsistent and usually is at or below minimum standard. But just enough to be overlooked to get the lower price. I would love to have the option to buy swiss or german tools while I still am cognizant enough not to lose them on a regular basis.
Being a 'Sparky' for over 45 years I too have bought enough 'Klein' tools that I could buy a newish car with money spent.
Its like buying a set of $35 high top 'Payless Shoe' boots or $550 'Danner Loggers'. Both fit, both will simi protect your foot but you would see after 2 years how well the Danners have saved your foot after spending 6 hours a day on Steel Pole Climbers. The steel shank is what keeps the climbers from making your foot a curved Pigeon toe. (Yes these are Klein too).
![Image]()
Its like buying a set of $35 high top 'Payless Shoe' boots or $550 'Danner Loggers'. Both fit, both will simi protect your foot but you would see after 2 years how well the Danners have saved your foot after spending 6 hours a day on Steel Pole Climbers. The steel shank is what keeps the climbers from making your foot a curved Pigeon toe. (Yes these are Klein too).
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