i read a couple days ago someone had it done for $140, so i think you got a good deal..........larry

 

Did you do any of the disassembly/re-assembly required to get keep the labor costs down or was your bike dropped off for service intact? That's a great price for this service, as was the $140 one posted earlier, in fact, it's quite a bargain. I would be overjoyed to be able to have this done at either price.

This stuff can be very confusing, considering the outragious range of prices stated for this service.

I've been to my selling dealer for a price on the 14,500 mile service, and was quoted something like $500-$600 for what appeared to be around 6-7 hours shop-rate.

I'm going to head on over to a different local Suzuki/Honda shop later today and see what they will quote for it. I'll report back with what they tell me.

 

dealer prices vary alot. i had a tire put on the rear of my bike for $33.95. 7 or 8 miles down the road another dealer asked $95, for the same job. they said it was becuase i didnt buy the tire from them. well i bought it on line and saved $50 for the tire. shop around and i am sure you will find a big difference, hopefully in the right direction.......larry

 

This subject was brought up a while back, and the question was "Has anyone's 650 needed the valves adjusted?" It seems that most, if not all the people posting had no valves adjusted, they were all within the limits. So is it necessary? Not trying to be a wise guy, just interested if anyone has had their valves adjusted. It seems their always within there limits.

 

I have just had the valve clearance check done at my Suzuki dealer. My 650 has 29,000 km. The cost was $162.00. All valves were within tolerance. The closest to maximum was one exhaust at 0.28 mm (the tolerance for the exhaust valve is from 0.20 mm to 0.30 mm)

Did the shop give you the valve inspection form?

http://www.calamarichris.com/images/valveform.pdf

 

The valve clearance check was done in my presence. The mechanic, in which I have great confidence, noted all the clearances. As far as time required, the shop manager showed me that the Suzuki computer indicating the shop time for that job is 6.7 hours. It took them less than 3 hours to do the job. (My shop charges 50.00$ per hour.) The bill of $162.00 also included cleaning the CVT filter, and taxes.
My mechanic also showed me that you do not have to dismantle all the fairings that the shop manual indicate to do that job.

 

My mechanic also showed me that you do not have to dismantle all the fairings that the shop manual indicate to do that job.

Thank you for the details on your bike's service, it provides some rare clarity to understanding the costs involved and how they can vary so widely from dealer to dealer. I know that some of them are certainly going to charge the full flat-rate regardless of the actual time to do the job, few of us get the opportunity to watch the actual work being done on our bikes by others.

Now we just need a photo-tutorial on how it's done without taking the bike half apart...(if that hasn't been done already by someone here). :wink:

 

Thank you Allwalk.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3442

 

Thank you Allwalk.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3442

Yes, thank you for the link. It's intimidating, but I'll have a go at it in another 5000 or so.
If I can perform this service myself (and also start to mount my own tires), I'll be virtually free of the dealership service department except for extraordinary situations.

Having two 650 Burgmans in the garage gives me the advantage of having a second bike to look at to see how things are supposed to look in the general reassembly of the bike.

This will make the bike truly a frugal machine to own and operate over a long period.

 

Well! I stopped into the closest dealer to me this afternoon and asked the service manager what they'll charge me for the 14,500 service on our 650's. They had to look it up in 'the book' because they had yet to perform a valve clearance check on a 650 Burgman, and had no idea.

They said that it looked like almost 7 hours in the flat-rate book, and they charge $75.00 per hour, but because they hadn't done one before they'd cut me a break and do it for $400.00, then a minute later said that they'd do it for $300, (parts and taxes extra) and if it went seriously 'problematic' timewise, they'd adjust the charge upwards after that.

This means two things.

1. My bike will be serving as their guinea pig to learn on for this service.

2. I can still save over $300 by doing it myself.

I'm going to go the 'home schooling' route on this, probably at about the 20,000 mile point.

 

I've ordered the official Suzuki service manual to see how these things are set up. If its like most other water cooled 4 valve dohc twin motorcycle engines, they are using shim and bucket system, and these are inherently stable. Typically when you check them you find that there is nothing to adjust.

A lot of shops will charge flat rate hours on a job like this, and at current labor rates (which approach $90/hr in some dealerships), the cost can add up quickly, especially with all the tupperware that has to be unpeeled and then reapplied.

 

My mechanic also showed me that you do not have to dismantle all the fairings that the shop manual indicate to do that job.

Bernard,

Could you by any chance elaborate a bit more on the fairing parts that don't need to be removed in order to do the job.

Merci...

 

I've ordered the official Suzuki service manual to see how these things are set up. If its like most other water cooled 4 valve dohc twin motorcycle engines, they are using shim and bucket system, and these are inherently stable. Typically when you check them you find that there is nothing to adjust.

A lot of shops will charge flat rate hours on a job like this, and at current labor rates (which approach $90/hr in some dealerships), the cost can add up quickly, especially with all the tupperware that has to be unpeeled and then reapplied.

I believe it is a shim system- you have to use some basic math to order the correct sized shims if a valve is out of spec.

Whoever is getting charged $50 per hour labor must be really in a low cost locale. Around here it's closer to $100 for motorcycle. My Toyota dealer I believe is now charging $110.
The boat guy is $120.

 

I believe it is a shim system- you have to use some basic math to order the correct sized shims if a valve is out of spec.

You have to measure the clearance, and it will probably be in spec and you will have to do nothing.

If its not in spec, you will need to know the current shim thickness and then change the shim to a new one with a thickness that puts you in the correct clearance range. You usually can't see the current shim thickness until you remove the shim. The shims are usually marked. One problem you can run into is that the dealership may or may not have the necessary shim thickness in stock. If they don't have the one(s) you need in stock, they'll have to order them.

Some engines require that you remove the cams to replace the shims. When the service manual comes, I'll know how this one is set up, but I don't know right now.

If you do have to remove cams, then it will be very important to get the timing right on reassembly. If cam timing is wrong, it can destroy the engine in one cycle when the piston makes contact with one or more of the valves.

As I mentioned before, it is almost never necessary to do anything more than check the valve clearance for Japanese or German water cooled shim and bucket style valve trains. They're almost always in spec.

 

I've read this section in the service manual several times. You follow the procedure to check the clearance, and if you're out of spec, you use your measurement to determine the correct thickness shim needed to get back to spec. There is a grid in the service manual to use as an aid. Doesn't look all that hard. And yes, you have to remove the camshaft to replace the shim, which is also described in the manual.
There are markings on the gears to you get things lined up correctly when you put everything back together. I suspect anyone who has the ability to perform the procedure shouldn't have any trouble.
And sure, it's quite possible that your dealer might have to special order the correct shim. My dealer usually gets special order parts in a couple days. So far those who've actually needed to replace shims have been few in number, at least on this forum.

This isn't a good first project for the person who's just learned how to change their own oil for the first time, but anyone with mechanical aptitude a bit beyond the basics who can read and follow instructions should be able to do it.

You want a challenge? Try rebuilding a Honda 3 barrell carburetor. That was back when their motto was "We Make It Simple". That carb sure wasn't.

 

To: Le Dude

I am sorry for not answering your question regarding the dismantling for the valve clearance check before. I was away and also very busy with transactions.

The rear fairings and associated parts like baggage compartment was not removed, which explains why the time required to complete the job was less than what the Manual states. My mechanic showed me that he does it that way.

I hpoe this answers your question.

 

Bernard,

Thanks for the reply, did the scoot look anything like this, if so, then they didn't really have a short cut per say, since that seems to be the amount of tupperware that needs to come off to do the job. I was just curious to see if anybody had found a simpler/quickler way.

 

Bernard,

Thanks for the reply, did the scoot look anything like this, if so, then they didn't really have a short cut per say, since that seems to be the amount of tupperware that needs to come off to do the job. I was just curious to see if anybody had found a simpler/quickler way.

Ledude, that looks like a fancy garage you have there. Is that your living room? My wife would kill me. :wink:

 

Ledude, that looks like a fancy garage you have there. Is that your living room? My wife would kill me. :wink:

That picture is from Allwalk's tapet/valve inspection how-to article. But I do have to confess, have been there, done the same
thing in the past.

 

Checking the valves is one thing, actually having to add the shims and adjust the clearance is another thing! I think it would add considerable time to the process when you added shims, assuming you even have the correct shims in stock! Charging the flat rate book time for this job is a straight up and down rip off. It all comes down to what they actually have to do, check or adjust.

 

I have the manual and the tools for the tappet check but I don't have the ability to predict when one of the cover mounts is about to fail!
Let me explain...
I looked over the manual for the 14500 mile maintenance and since I've done all the maintenance on my Gold Wing I was determined to do it on my Burgman as well, except the stuff I don't have but need special tools for. Way back with my first bike, a Harley, I had to first rebuild the engine before I could ride. So having that experience under my belt I know it is only a matter of having the right tools and then I can do it. Well, I launched into the tappet check and all were within tolerance as everyone else has found. Putting the cylinder head cover back on was when it went bad for me. Turns out that the threads in one of the mounts for the cover were on the verge of failure. No I didn't tighten anything too much. I have a torque wrench and use it. All 4 bolts threaded just fine initially. 3 bolts were able just start to seat, as I tightened each one just a little to keep it even all around. But the 4th bolt, lower right, barely started to seat and then went all loose again. As I said, I did not over torque, I did not even get close. I am now looking for a cam shaft holder, Exhaust side, as in the lower one, since that is what the bolts fasten to. Fortunately the head is OK. I know my dealer doesn't have this part in stock so I will have to order one from them. My dealer is one who would charge the $500-$600 for this maintenance interval so even buying this extra part I will still be way ahead... I hope. Has anyone had to replace one of these?

I am thinking that the threads in the mount were about to fail anyway and just happened to when I was reassembling. Better when the bike is apart for maintenance anyway than when on the road. But now I am without my main transportation until I get the part. AAAAHHHH! :angryfire:

Other than the very first maintenance, I have performed all maintenance myself without problem. I usually let the dealer do the first maintenance on any bike I buy just to be sure everything starts out done right. There is one more body plastic part that is supposed to be removed than what the picture shows above. That is the foot board piece that wraps over and in front of the saddle. I did remove all the plastic called for just because I wanted to have it all open to do some other things. Now I have more time to do some more things while it's apart.

 

Update on the stripped bolt hole. Can't get just the holder that has the bad mounting hole separate from the cylinder head. It's a $660+ assembly from the local dealer special order. A $480+ part from online source. No thanks. While on the phone with the parts people they then went the extra step and *suggested* an alternative, to have an insert put in to repair the stripped threads. WOW, you mean they didn't want to stick it to me?!?!?!? They transferred me back to the service department and the mechanic said they can do the repair with an insert. There are 2 kinds. A steel plug is one and a heli-coil is the other. I removed the cam holder and took it in to the dealer tonight and they measured and found that they can't do the steel plug (preferred - stronger) since their supplier doesn't have the right size for the bolt. So, the heli-coil is it. It costs less anyway. May end up costing me $25-$30 total for the repair.

With the rest of the supplies for the 14500 mile maintenance and I am still less than $75, even with buying a feeler gauge with LOTs of blades which I needed anyway. Much better than the $500-$600 for the dealer to do the maintenance. The tappet clearance was the only thing I've not done before.