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Daboo said:
I think you should sell your Burgman 400, burgcooler. You might make your 5th post in the Classifieds section.

Chris
That may be the best advice for burgcooler. :(

Although, I can understand burgcooler's frustration, ALL manufacturers of any motorized vehicle will experience defects of their mechanical products. That's why we see so many aftermarket parts available for purchase. This particular issue of squeal and/or shudder on the 400's has actually intiated the design and manufacture of the Hit clutch & Dr. Pulley sliders, providing improved performance & gas mileage for the 400's. :thumbup:

To keep manufacturing costs down, parts will be made that may not offer the best longevity and/or performance. Does Suzuki know about this issue...of course they do. They are looking for an inexpensive "fix" to keep overall manufacturing costs low.

I sold my 2007 400 and then, 2 years later, purchased a used 2008 400 model believing the squeal problem would be resolved with the introduction of a 5 shoe clutch. Apparently, there were other issues at hand that attributed to this squeal....some of which may be design or possibly, the way a rider operates his scooter. Narrowing down those specific reasons attributing to the problem may take a few design revisions that could span several years.

My 2008 model hasn't expereinced any noises or shuddering, but when it does, it appears that the Hit Clutch seems to be a reasonable answer to resolve this issue. I'm very satisfied with the overall performance and design of the Burgman models available, despite the few flaws we see from time to time.

No matter the recourse burgcooler may take...I wish you well and safe riding because that is what our scooter riding really is all about :D
 
Dang, you guys let me buy a scooter that sucks? :lol:
 
Daboo said:
I think you should sell your Burgman 400, burgcooler. You might make your 5th post in the Classifieds section.

Chris
+1

And since it's junk and Suzuki makes crap I'll give you a very generous $100 for it. :thumbup:

Maybe my 08' that hasn't made a peep in 22k will be able to teach yours how to behave.
 
I just passed 16K and had some squeeling in the first 5k but it is gone and the bike is better that than ever. I have on put a Power Commander for better low end lane merging and when I had the belt changed at 14500 I put in the Kevlar one; everything else is stock. I ride almost everyday and it is flawless. The truth is Burgman 400 got it right. I have thought about a bigger bike or something different, but when I ride I realize that the ease of use makes this unit safer and more flexible when the going gets tough - and my ego is held in check too. I ride the hills of San Francisco, the hills of the Peninsula over to the beach, the traffic heavy freeways of the SF Bay Area and the Burgman makes me look forward to the challenge ahead.

Happy and Safe riding.
PS This web site had saved me many $$ thanks to all of you obsessive compulsive Burgman owners you are the best!

Hap
 
Turned over 13000 today and no squeal or shudder. Bike was broken in hard and take off is cranking to 4000 revs minium and locking in the clutch instead of slipping it. Original clutch, belt and rollers!
 
Squealing, vibrating, chippering CVT what are you talking about :? 23,000+ miles and have never had any of that out of mine. :wink:
 
Next week I pick up my new K9 Burger. Reading these posts has been enlightening regarding the Clutch and CVT. I will certainly ignore the Suzi break-in regime and do a "normal" procedure, varying rpm over a reasonable range without full throttle or excessive load. Would someone confirm for me that the 400 has no mech lock up at all and at higher rpm even, the only clutch lock is the pressure of the shoes on the drum due to the centrifugal force. I think I had heard of CVT /clutch systems where over a certain rpm there was a mechanical lock up at higher rpm, by a centrifugal operated spring loaded pin system that came out into a recess.

Thanks Greytops :roll:
 
The "centrifugal operated spring loaded pin system that came out into a recess" is probably the Dr. Pulley HiT clutch.

Regarding "Would someone confirm for me that the 400 has no mech lock up at all and at higher rpm even, the only clutch lock is the pressure of the shoes on the drum due to the centrifugal force." You're correct.

Chris
 
Elliott Larron said:
Well, All CVT's are no good Fella , It was put to rest a long time ago and Somebody revived them, im not to happy with the Burgman 400 Setup Becuze of the Weight of the Parts, Im planning on Replacing the Clutch Bell with the Polini real soon for a Lighter one , the Heavy the Parts the Slower the Bike, But any thing that is CVT is no good becuze the wear and tear of it? Now the 650 is not a bad scooter it has a
Automatic CVT with a Aluminum belt. Im just waiting for a new Look and design before i purchase the 650..

Sorry you feel that way....

Elliott,
POINT OF INFORMATION: The Nissan Altima now has a CVT transmission................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken
 
A quote from WIKIPEDIA:

"CVTs have been used in aircraft electrical power generating systems since the 1950s and in Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Formula 500 race cars since the early 1970s(Interesting factoid: CVT's were banned from Formula 1 in 1994 because they were making the cars too fast).More recently, CVT systems have been developed for go-karts and have proven to increase performance and engine life expectancy. The Tomcar range of off-road vehicles also utilizes the CVT system"

MORE -

Variable-diameter pulley (VDP) or Reeves drive
In this most common CVT system,[1] there are two V-belt pulleys that are split perpendicular to their axes of rotation, with a V-belt running between them. The gear ratio is changed by moving the two sections of one pulley closer together and the two sections of the other pulley farther apart. Due to the V-shaped cross section of the belt, this causes the belt to ride higher on one pulley and lower on the other. Doing this changes the effective diameters of the pulleys, which in turn changes the overall gear ratio. The distance between the pulleys does not change, and neither does the length of the belt, so changing the gear ratio means both pulleys must be adjusted (one bigger, the other smaller) simultaneously in order to maintain the proper amount of tension on the belt.

The V-belt needs to be very stiff in the pulley's axial direction in order to make only short radial movements while sliding in and out of the pulleys. This can be achieved by a chain and not by homogeneous rubber. To dive out of the pulleys one side of the belt must push. This again can be done only with a chain. Each element of the chain has conical sides, which perfectly fit to the pulley if the belt is running on the outermost radius. As the belt moves into the pulleys the contact area gets smaller. The contact area is proportional to the number of elements, thus the chain has lots of very small elements. The shape of the elements is governed by the static of a column. The pulley-radial thickness of the belt is a compromise between maximum gear ratio and torque. For the same reason the axis between the pulleys is as thin as possible. A film of lubricant is applied to the pulleys. It needs to be thick enough so that the pulley and the belt never touch and it must be thin in order not to waste power when each element dives into the lubrication film. Additionally, the chain elements stabilize about 12 steel bands. Each band is thin enough so that it bends easily. If bending, it has a perfect conical surface on its side. In the stack of bands each band corresponds to a slightly different gear ratio, and thus they slide over each other and need oil between them. Also the outer bands slide through the stabilizing chain, while the center band can be used as the chain linkage


FROM EDMONDS AUTOMOTIVE:

"CVT Enters the Mainstream
By Scott Memmer
Email

Our staff, as well as other automotive enthusiasts, has noticed an ever-increasing level of interest about a new/old technology called CVT (continuously variable transmission) and its burgeoning rise in the automotive world.

We say "new/old" because CVT has actually been around since 1886, but has only recently begun to find its way into production automobiles.

CVT's promise, both as a boon to fuel economy and as a low-cost alternative to conventional transmissions, has prompted us to revisit the topic.

Since our article CVT For You and Me appeared, a number of automakers have brought new CVT-equipped vehicles to market, and more are on the way. We felt now was a good time to take a closer look at this innovative — and time-tested — technology.

As we mentioned above, CVT has been around for more than a hundred years. However, until recently, it was reserved for industrial applications — running lathes or light-duty drill presses, for instance. With the introduction of improved materials, such as high-density rubber belts, advanced hydraulics and, more recently, high-speed sensors and microprocessors, the stage was set for CVT's rise in the automobile.

CVT's design advantages lie not only in its efficiency but in its simplicity. It consists of very few components. A continuously variable transmission typically includes the following major component groups:


•a high-power/density rubber belt

•a hydraulically operated driving pulley

•a mechanical torque-sensing driving pulley

•microprocessors and sensors
That's it.

Because of this simplicity in design, CVT offers some advantages over traditional transmissions, although it also has certain drawbacks. For instance, its belt-driven orientation limits its application; until recently, cars with engines larger than 1.2 liters were considered incompatible with CVT. More and more, however, CVTs are becoming available that can handle more powerful engines, such as the V6 power plants found in some Nissan and Audi vehicles.

Other disadvantages include its larger size and weight.

Still, in the right situation, CVT's advantages outweigh its disadvantages. Less complexity and moving parts theoretically mean fewer things to go wrong and maintain.

The first U.S.-sold production automobile in the world to offer a CVT transmission was the Subaru Justy GL, from 1989 through 1993. The engine in that car was 1.2 liters.

How it Works
Although there are different variations on the CVT theme, most passenger cars use a similar setup. Essentially, a CVT transmission operates by varying the working diameters of the two main pulleys in the transmission.

The pulleys have V-shaped grooves in which the connecting belt rides. One side of the pulley is fixed; the other side is moveable, actuated by a hydraulic cylinder. When actuated, the cylinder can increase or reduce the amount of space between the two sides of the pulley. This allows the belt to ride lower or higher along the walls of the pulley, depending on driving conditions, thereby changing the gear ratio. If you think about it, the action is similar to the way a mountain bike shifts gears, by "derailing" the chain from one sprocket to the next — except that, in the case of CVT, this action is infinitely variable, with no "steps" between.

The "stepless" nature of its design is CVT's biggest draw for automotive engineers. Because of this, a CVT can work to keep the engine in its optimum power range, thereby increasing efficiency and gas mileage. This translates to a gain of about 1-2 mpg, but as with any car, your mileage will vary based on your driving habits. A CVT can convert every point on the engine's operating curve to a corresponding point on its own operating curve.

With these advantages, it's easy to understand why manufacturers of high-mileage vehicles often incorporate CVT technology into their drivetrains.

Look for more CVTs in the coming years as the battle for improved gas mileage accelerates and technological advances further widen their functionality."

I KNOW IT'S VERY LONG ...BUT WORTH THE READ!

Ken
 
For those Burgman owners who complain about the clutch slipping - noisy acceleration - etc............ This is a very interesting artilce I found online:

"CVT Transmission Problems
The CVT mechanism has its advantages and disadvantages. While its strong points are better acceleration and enhanced fuel economy than the automatic transmission, but people have faced certain CVT transmission problems also. Some people have voiced their concern regarding this mechanism. Those using cars with conventional transmission, might be aware of the automatic transmission problems, but on switching to a car with CVT, they might find it difficult to adjust to CVT. The cars with CVT produce some noise when you try to accelerate. The car noise is produced as a result of CVT trying to adjust the engine speed. Though CVT mechanism is such that it facilitates the engine to rev at any speed, but the sound might seem like that of a slipping clutch. Those who are accustomed to driving cars with automatic transmission might find that slightly bothersome. Since, it provides a smooth transition while accessing maximum power, it leaves an impression of the car being slowed down. You need to adjust to the dynamics. Another CVT transmission problem is the inability to check the fluid level on your own. You need to get it checked by the dealer. It is more expensive than the conventional transmission, that certainly affects the user acceptance in an adverse manner. Most of the CVT transmission problems can be associated with the fact that the users might take time to adjust. Due to this fact, the automakers are trying to incorporate features that make it similar to a conventional transmission. There are different types of CVTs, some offer a ‘manual’ mode and other features that create a resemblance to the conventional transmissions. In case, you are planning to buy a vehicle with a CVT transmission, make sure you go for a test drive to check your comfort level. Long-term reliability is one aspect that needs to be looked into.

So, this was some information regarding CVT transmission problems. If you are planning to buy a car with CVT, you must go for a test drive first. Though, it does offer superior fuel economy and better acceleration, but you must make a choice after going for a test drive. "

SO..IT SEEMS THAT THE NOISE AND "JUDDERING" ON ACCELERATING MAY BE AN INHERENT FEATURE OF CVT TRANSMISSIONS...........

Ken
 
I get the squeal at stops, but if I feather the throttle it goes away, no harm, no foul! I'm not going to gripe that Zukes are crap because of this, as this has been my best purchase so far!
 
I have an 07 Burgman 400 with 15,000 miles on it and yes I do get an occasional squeal from it . I also had a Silver Wing and sold it for my used Burgman . The 400 wins hands down for performance and ergonomics comfort . The Wing was very unbalanced for me and the mileage was not good compaired to the 400. When Honda can't even put an emergency 4 way flasher on their bikes for safety , that is pretty bad . I'll live with the occasional squeal for a comfortable bike , and I can get 65/70 MPG on it . Bob
 
If you think the B400 wins hands down in performance I will race you title for title...my Silver wing against your B400. I had a Majesty and there is no way the B400 is more powerful, faster, or quicker than a Silver Wing. Mine is paid for and I have the title in hand. But I know you won't take me up on a race. Just talk.
 
He never said the B400 was faster. "Performance" is pretty vague, and could include the things he mentioned like balance and gas mileage.
 
banjo70 said:
...The 400 wins hands down for performance and ergonomics comfort . The Wing was very unbalanced for me and the mileage was not good compaired to the 400. ...
Sometimes people aren't talking about straight line performance but the total package. In reading his next sentence, that would seem to be the case.

I can't speak for banjo70, but in what I'm looking for, the performance of the 400 beats everything else on the road. Now someone will think I'm crazy, but I find the acceleration more than adequate (without having excess I'll never use legally), the handling is all I could ever want it to be, and the gas mileage can't be beat. Other bikes may have more straightline performance, but they'll lack in the gas mileage performance. While I know there are better handling bikes out there, I haven't ridden with another bike that could keep up with me on really twisty roads. (Maybe I'm just a fool, and they weren't. :roll: ) The gas mileage is more comparable to a 250cc scooter than a 400 like the Majesty. And the ergonomics for me, is perfect. Anything else is a tradeoff on one or more of those areas.

I would take a Silverwing over a Burgman 650, believe it or not. (Is that like heresy on a Burgman forum? :lol:) I like the idea of the additional power and the looks of the Silverwing. I also like the simplicity of the CVT on the Silverwing which is very similar to the B400. There are lots of things going for it. But so far, I like that combination of performance and ergonomics I find in the B400.

But if I do buy a Silverwing Jeff, I'd love to be accepted as a member of your forum. The Silverwing is a wonderful bike and one to be proud of. :thumbup:

Chris
 
I meant to put a 'smiley' after my message so he thought I was just kidding. It really isn't the bike but the rider that can make a bike do good things in the twisties. And Chris...you don't need a Silver Wing to be accepted on my site. We don't really care what anyone rides at all. When I looked at the Silver Wing and the B650 I just liked the looks and feel of the SWing and also that I wanted something a bit thinner for splitting traffic. We get to do that here in California.

Someone just posted on my site about the new Honda scooter that is supposed to come out next year. He put pics of it there and it does look good. It is supposed to have that fancy tranmission that the VFR1200 has. I'm sure it will cost alot though but it looks nice. I also think that in the next couple of years there will be quite a few new models out and hopefully they come to the states. We just have to wait for the economy to get better. Hopefully the new bikes will have bikes in the 500-600cc range but with more efficient engines. I don't need the big 750cc or bigger engines anymore.
 
Do u truly believe that the economy will get better? I don't! Now that we r competing much more on a world wide basis, I believe that our glory days are behind us.
 
On top of the squeeling problem that I'm fixing to tackle this weekend, I've noticed after almost a week of riding my new (used) Burgman that the chugging I'm experiencing at stop lights is really bad. When I got home last night & pushed the bike around in the garage and I could feel the compressions in the motor as if the drive-train was still directly connected to the crankshaft. This morning when I started it up the back wheel started turning right away. I stopped it with my boot and let go and it started up again, so something tells me that the clutch may not be disengaging? Any ideas on what to do with that?

I've also just discovered that the speedo is way off. I haven't had a chance to check it against a car yet, but for riding on the interstate it just feels to me like the motor is revving way higher than it should for the speed that I'm going. I'm nearly red-lining the tach just to keep up with traffic that is normally doing 60-65mph and I don't like running the motor that hard. I was told that these 400's will keep up in intersate traffic no problem, but mine just doesn't seem cut out for it.
 
Gary
is it still on original belt?
 
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