[banjo70]

Chis , you are right on about the 400 .I just want to add that I had the Silver Wing and I also have a Honda 250 Reflex and I like this bike also . The Wing and Reflex are very good bikes and bullet proof . But $ for $ I think the 400 is a better buy . Gas milage on the 250 vs. the 400 is identical , yet I have the benefit of a heavier and more comfortable bike on the 400 vrs. the Reflex. First lets compare bikes for bikes . Here is what the 400 has that is not on either the Wing or Reflex .
1. duel front disk brakes
2.tie down brackets on the rear
3.adjustable backrest (250 has this)
4.two trip odometers
5.digital temperature readout
6.shut off switch for trunk light
7.4 way emergency flashers
8.hi low beam flasher
9.emergency parking lights
10. anti theft key lock
So I am not knocking the Wing ,good bikes ,but they cost 2000$ or so more then a 400 for an extra 200cc , and the speed limit is 70MPH so when I am on an expressway at 70MPH the Wing is going to stop for gas before me . That is performance in a nut shell. I love my 400 , squeal or no squeal .

 

[Daboo]

Gary, you don't indicate in your profile where you live. It would be really helpful to have some general idea.

NormanB had a good question. My guess is your CVT belt is the original. An inexpensive vernier caliper that you can use to measure the width, will be helpful. That's where the wear occurs, is on the sides of the belt.

I notice my 2008 400 will idle fast enough initially when cold to slightly engage the clutch. After it warms up though, the idle does drop and the clutch no longer engages.

Was the previous owner a member of BurgmanUSA? If they were, you'd get an idea of what their past history on the bike was if they posted much at all.

Chris

 

[spooker]

On top of the squeeling problem that I'm fixing to tackle this weekend, I've noticed after almost a week of riding my new (used) Burgman that the chugging I'm experiencing at stop lights is really bad. When I got home last night & pushed the bike around in the garage and I could feel the compressions in the motor as if the drive-train was still directly connected to the crankshaft. This morning when I started it up the back wheel started turning right away. I stopped it with my boot and let go and it started up again, so something tells me that the clutch may not be disengaging? Any ideas on what to do with that?

I've also just discovered that the speedo is way off. I haven't had a chance to check it against a car yet, but for riding on the interstate it just feels to me like the motor is revving way higher than it should for the speed that I'm going. I'm nearly red-lining the tach just to keep up with traffic that is normally doing 60-65mph and I don't like running the motor that hard. I was told that these 400's will keep up in intersate traffic no problem, but mine just doesn't seem cut out for it.

Gary, it's common on a lot of CVT bikes to have the back wheel spin at idle, though I haven't noticed this on my B400. The speedo on all scooters, including the B400, is over by about 10%--it's tradition or something. When I first got the B400, I also was surprised how highly it was revving, but someone explained here recently that the CVT is designed to keep the bike between 5000 and 6000 rpm, where the bike has its optimal power output. So it does rev high, but it's designed to do so. So, of all your observations, only the chugging at stoplights and the difficulty pushing it around sound at all unusual.

 

[paula4u]

Hello All,

Hope I put this in the right place? Need a bit of advice, My bike is due for a service due on 19000 miles so thats not a problem I have a contract with a dealer who is a large dealer they may not be the cheapest but I trust them.

On the last service the belt was changed as per service schedule, I had an advisory that the drives were worn in a place i.e. I was doing regular high mileage trips and it showed at a speed? and yes its right my average ride is 150 miles each way and I'm mainly zapping between 65 and 75 mph.

they advised that these items need to be replaced, face fixed drive, face moveable drive, face fixed driven, face moveable driven, roller movable drive, gasket clutch cover inner.

Not cheap.. since I have put another 5000 miles on it, she goes well but I am going to Switzerland, just back from a 1300 mile run about on the continent. She goes well, but she is developing that little squeel, btw she coped very well in high temp of 38C but she got hot.

Im on a very small pension and the bike is my baby.. :thumbup: I don't want to ruin my Switzerland touring with the "lads" if my bike broke down Its a major expenditure and I'm not capable of doing it myself, rather cook nice soups and cakes or add more led's.

What would you guys do if in my predicament I am not technical enough to take the beast apart to look at the damage myself Is 18800 miles too low for this kind of work, or just about right? £550 inc of labour will be the bill

 

[billmeek]

While it is possible that the pulleys are are worn at this mileage, I find it rather unlikely that they're worn enough to warrant replacement. They may have some small ridging on the surfaces that will cause the belt wear slightly faster. But in my opinion, it's not enough to justify the expense of replacing the pulleys. Even at double your current mileage, the pulleys shouldn't be worn that badly.

Without actually seeing them, it's very hard for us to make a judgment call though.

 

[paula4u]

Thanks bill, OK how can i test if the bike is slipping as I feel it apart from the odd squeel.. it seems fine.. if its slipping on certain speeds how can you feel it.. i..e. when i go 20-30 mph it shudders but its always done that.. at 60 i feel it keeps speed well rev counter seems fine but there is this strange singing (no sound ) in vibration i feel that there is a repetive cycle going on i can t explain it but like on every second it just circled.. accellerate and its a straight clean pullaway and steady pull on bike,, which stays like that above 65mph am I just feeling that bit of wear? because if so it might be getting worse and its now noticeable..

Or is what I feel, simply me getting to know my bikefeel factor more? Sorry red bimbo at work here.

 

[Elliott Larron]

The Shudder is a for sure Coming from Clutch bell Glaze, Depending on the Clutch, I took mine apart and Discovered the glaze on the Bell, I Drimeled and sandpapered it like Chris, said and the Shudder and vibration stopped, thank god it was So bad the front just Bounced up and Down like Popcorn, Now it's much smoover I will be setting a goal for a Hit Clutch soon,

Gary L,

 

[Daboo]

... i feel that there is a repetive cycle going on i can t explain it but like on every second it just circled.. accellerate and its a straight clean pullaway and steady pull on bike,, which stays like that above 65mph..

I was getting the same thing as you're describing right here on my 2007 400. The variator began getting some grooves in it, probably because most of my riding is on the motorway and the rpms varied only slightly. After awhile, the grooves went away. I think what happened was the belt as it slipped back and forth hunting for the right place to be on the pulley surface, wore that ridge off. When I sold it, the pulley looked virtually perfect.

Just for clarification, I think you have several things going on, and the advice above is all correct. The clutch pads can cause your squeal and shudder at takeoff. The variator weights can cause the shudder that appears on takeoff from a full stop and while moving at greater speeds The other vibration you feel at speed if it is hunting like this can be caused by the groove, which might wear off on its own.

Also, the mechanics will almost always go for replacing parts, instead of cleaning and reusing parts. It is more profit for them by selling you new parts. They have less risk involved of a problem coming back. And it is far quicker for them to simply swap a part out, than spend time cleaning...especially since they will probably charge you the same for labour in both cases. If you're on a limited budget especially, I recommend doing what I always try to do when taking the car in. First, ask them to show you what is wrong with the part being replaced before ordering a new part and installing it. Second, ask for the old parts back. You aren't looking to get into the repair of you Burgman, but it helps you to understand what is happening. And if they can't explain what is wrong with the old part, they are only guessing for what might fix it...which is easy for them to do since they are playing with your money, and not theirs.

Chris

 

[WeeWilly]

Ah, Master Po, as one of many grasshoppers and having formerlly being call a mechanic (sideline advocation) I must comment on some of the best advice regarding vehicle maintainence I have ever heard - you are wise beyound your years and this paragraph should become a sticky attached to all novice mechanics and vehicle owners licensing requirements. :thumbup:

 

[Desert Rat]

Also, the mechanics will almost always go for replacing parts, instead of cleaning and reusing parts. It is more profit for them by selling you new parts. They have less risk involved of a problem coming back. And it is far quicker for them to simply swap a part out, than spend time cleaning...especially since they will probably charge you the same for labour in both cases. If you're on a limited budget especially, I recommend doing what I always try to do when taking the car in. First, ask them to show you what is wrong with the part being replaced before ordering a new part and installing it. Second, ask for the old parts back. You aren't looking to get into the repair of you Burgman, but it helps you to understand what is happening. And if they can't explain what is wrong with the old part, they are only guessing for what might fix it...which is easy for them to do since they are playing with your money, and not theirs.

Chris

I tottaly agree with Chris. Dealerships need to make money & installing parts that "are needed" is one way they do it. At 14,500 miles Suzuki says to change out the belt. I just had mine apart at 35k miles and the belt measured out at .996 with no cracks so I reinstalled it. At 19,000 miles you will have worn parts but are they worn-out? Most dealerships will say yes depending upon who it is. At the dealership I'm service manager at ( Kubota tractor) I give the customer options on major repairs & let them say yes or no. Best way is to check them yourself as many on this site do. Most on this site are not mechanics but with all the video's and help you will find it isn't that big of a deal. If you can change your own oil you can check & change parts in the CVT. If you have to have a dealer do it refer to what Chris said above :wink:

 

[mbev51]

Hi
As I have posted on another thread, I sold my 400 k7 last year. My previous burgman 125 had no issues with the clutch, whereas my k7 had a annoying churp/squel and unacceptable very low speed clutch behavior when negotiating crawling lanes of traffic. I am based in france and reading the scooter magazines here, they talk of a problem with the clutches on the burgman 400 (they say that the dealers are away of it) whilst road tests on the 400 silverwing don't mention any such issues. I think the fact that many are trying to find a fix via aftermarket clutch parts indicates an inadequacy in the stock product.

 

[Macamx]

I really loved my 2010 Burgman Ltd Ed. but the clutch judder and grab really hacked me off to the point that I got rid. Before I bought it I contacted Suzuki and inquired about the clutch issues and I was assured that there weren't any. Rubbish. The grab made it dangerous as if you were not ready to drag the rear brake during rapid turn out from junctions the dam thing was unpredictable. Had the dealer not been a friend who I did not want to cause any grief I would have rejected it under British consumer legislation as "Not fit for purpose" . I am not very impressed with Suzuki but in fairness they are about "par for the course" for a large modern day automotive company. Would I buy another, yes, in a flash i I was convinced that the clutch was successfully engineered to do what I would expect, that is to take up the drive smoothly and silently regardless of the prevailing load conditions. Apart from the one issue which ruins the whole thing the 400 Burgman is one of the best if not the best all rounders available. Oh what a crying shame.

Geoff.

 

[egoble]

I have a 2007 400 and just took it into the dealership for it's 14,500 mile service. They determined that the clutch needed replacing, and after reading all these posts about clutch issues, I have to believe them. They also said that Suzuki will not pay for it, even though it's clearly an issue with many bikes. The dealership is charging about $1,300 for the fix, which seems high to me. Does that sound about right to anyone with experience in having this fixed? But in any case, I guess I'm stuck, so I'll raid my piggy bank. But I must say, in over 50 years of driving, l've never had maintenance cost as much for any vehicle as that on the Burgman. So much for economical transportation!

 

[Chatman128]

I have a 2007 400 and just took it into the dealership for it's 14,500 mile service. They determined that the clutch needed replacing, and after reading all these posts about clutch issues, I have to believe them. They also said that Suzuki will not pay for it, even though it's clearly an issue with many bikes. The dealership is charging about $1,300 for the fix, which seems high to me. Does that sound about right to anyone with experience in having this fixed? But in any case, I guess I'm stuck, so I'll raid my piggy bank. But I must say, in over 50 years of driving, l've never had maintenance cost as much for any vehicle as that on the Burgman. So much for economical transportation!

Not knowing where you are or what your personal capabilities are...

The 14500 service should be something like:

1. Change the Oil.
2. Check the CVT belt.
3. Check the clutch.
4. Bike is 6-7 years old may be flush coolant and brake fuilds.
5. Clean, maybe replace, the air filter.
6. Clean the CVT filter and the rest of the CVT housing in general.
7. Check a bunch of other stuff.

If you did this yourself (pretty easy with mitch's magic videos) and ordered parts from Oneida or RonAyers et. al. You'd be looking at $160 for the belt. $250-300 for the clutch, 50 for the air filter assuming they all needed replacing. Most belts last over 20K miles. I did mine at 21K but it wasn't really critical, just convenient. I haven't replaced my clutch yet (31K+) but I do have 2011 and so it is the 5 shoe clutch. So if you replaced all the stuff you're probably looking in the neighborhood of $500. Dealer is probably hitting you for full retail (I'm guessing $600-$700) plus standard shop rates for the labor. $1300 is not totally out there but it does seem pretty high. Even if I weren't totally up to speed on the process, I'd watch some videos, buy some tools, do it my self and save a bunch of money. Plus when it was done, I'd know exactly what was done. Trickiest part of the whole thing (in my estimation) is making some kind of tool to hold the variator during removal. Lots of descriptions on here for a couple of different type of these, one of them mine.

I tell everyone I talk to that riding a scooter in the US to save money is not going to work well unless you do your own maintenance and maybe not even then. Considering the risk involved in competing with the cagers, ride because you love to ride. Otherwise, drive a cheap car.

 

[Chappy]

All new cars are going with CVT transmission...I disagree that they suck, they are far more reliable than anything out there. Belt squeal is a problem on this bike, but other than that, they are very reliable.

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

New owner of used 2011 (had about 5100 miles in Dec when i bough it). Now have 6100 miles. Not much experience with the 400 - but, so far OK. 73000 mioels of experience witht he 650 (liked it also - but broke down with 73800 on speedometer). Cluitch or CVT - not determined yet.

I am and was concerned about the CVT and Clutch. However, I concluded that most of the complaints are minor (not saying nit - pickers, but just folks that want it all perfect).

By now I am aware of the noisy (Growling, Squealing, Whatever you call it) operation during low speed operation, take off operation, slow start and sudden surge on takeoffs. It does not bother me at this point -- as long as it lasts some miles.

Hopefully, I can do some of the repair myself at least to a point vs complicated Burgman 650.

I have taken CVT cover off for a look - all looked good at something like 5500 miles. The cover removal was a lesson in itself. Had not heard of the problem getting the case separated from the Clutch shaft. Lucky I did not break somnething trying.

I have now instaled a Car Tire on the rear (What a job that was - see post related to it), Now if I can get the tire to seat -- see how that works.

It is pretty easy to get the wheel off (harder than the 650 in my opinion, but easy enough).

 

[Liamjs]

I have a 2007 400 and just took it into the dealership for it's 14,500 mile service. They determined that the clutch needed replacing, and after reading all these posts about clutch issues, I have to believe them. They also said that Suzuki will not pay for it, even though it's clearly an issue with many bikes. The dealership is charging about $1,300 for the fix, which seems high to me. Does that sound about right to anyone with experience in having this fixed? But in any case, I guess I'm stuck, so I'll raid my piggy bank. But I must say, in over 50 years of driving, l've never had maintenance cost as much for any vehicle as that on the Burgman. So much for economical transportation!

I think there was a problem with the '07 clutch. Mine went out at 5k miles. They upgraded the engine that year and I don't think the clutch could handle it. They redesigned the clutch from a three shoe to a five shoe model in '08. I installed that one and it lasted almost 30k miles. MAKE SURE THEY INSTALL AN '08 clutch. You don't want this happening again in 10-15k miles. The belt will last 20k+ if you want to hang off for a bit.

Also, if they ever have to pull off the muffler, preplace the gasket with and 08 model. Suzuki changed that as well.

The 400 is an awesome bike. Once you get the tranny sorted out, it will serve you well.

 

[Chappy]

Mine chirps on a cold take off but...that's music to my ears baby!!!

 

[Liamjs]

By now I am aware of the noisy (Growling, Squealing, Whatever you call it) operation during low speed operation, take off operation, slow start and sudden surge on takeoffs. It does not bother me at this point -- as long as it lasts some miles.

Hopefully, I can do some of the repair myself at least to a point vs complicated Burgman 650.

It more than likely that the clutch pads are glazed, like brake pads get in a car. It's common in the 400. All you have to do is get to the clutch and sand off the glazing with some sand paper and blow out all the accumulated dust.

I've never done it as I don't have the tools, facilities or patience to do it, and my local shop only charges $40. Perhaps someone else can elaborate on what it entails.

 

[Liamjs]

Btw, most I've read agree that to help prevent the clutch glaze, you need to give the bike a good amount of throttle when starting off, 4-5k rpm, to get the clutch engaged as quickly as possible. The throttle back to adjust your speed.

I replaced my clutch about 5k miles ago, and I'm just starting to get little chirps every now and again. I suspect it will be ready for its first deglaze in a few more K miles. But that's me and my riding. I do a lot of city commuting. Your experience will vary.