I would ask , How much ( time / Temperature bars ) needed to warm up the scooter to be safe to drive ?
isux
About as much time as you need to put on your gloves...
It has been proven that it is better for all vehicle engines to warm up while riding slowly down the road instead of sitting there idling away.
If you were to hit the freeway on-ramp a few feet from where you started the bike, I'd wait some to let it warm up. But few of us ever hit that situation.
Chris
It has been proven that it is better for all vehicle engines to warm up while riding slowly down the road instead of sitting there idling away.
If you were to hit the freeway on-ramp a few feet from where you started the bike, I'd wait some to let it warm up. But few of us ever hit that situation.
Chris
I agree with Chris, let the scooter warm up for a few seconds and then ride at a moderate speed until the temperature bars come up.
Bill
Enjoy the ride...
Bill
Enjoy the ride...
Just piling on with the same response. I "warm mine up" while under way from the garage to the end of the driveway.
If the ambient temperature is near 40F (or lower), I'll let mine warm up until:
- At least one bar on the temp gauge, and:
- Rear wheel spins up freely with the bike idling on the centerstand
-- Rev engine up until wheel spins, then after a minute or so, stop it with the brake.
-- If it doesn't resume spinning, rev the engine up again until it does.
-- Repeat until wheel resumes spinning from idle, and spins freely and smoothly.
I don't know if this does any good, or if failing to do so causes additional wear -- it just seems sensible to me.
Otherwise, I'll just roll out as soon as the engine fires up.
-Rusty
Onomatopia: A perfect world where everything is spelled exactly the way it sounds.
- At least one bar on the temp gauge, and:
- Rear wheel spins up freely with the bike idling on the centerstand
-- Rev engine up until wheel spins, then after a minute or so, stop it with the brake.
-- If it doesn't resume spinning, rev the engine up again until it does.
-- Repeat until wheel resumes spinning from idle, and spins freely and smoothly.
I don't know if this does any good, or if failing to do so causes additional wear -- it just seems sensible to me.
Otherwise, I'll just roll out as soon as the engine fires up.
-Rusty
Onomatopia: A perfect world where everything is spelled exactly the way it sounds.
I generally turn key and go, keeping speed low until the first temp bar.
I think ~warm up~ came from start up in the winter or very cold weather, then gradually migrated from there. Remember back in the day the oils used where thicker so warming it up before pushing it could save your engine seals. Now with todays tech oils, not needed.
Rob
I think ~warm up~ came from start up in the winter or very cold weather, then gradually migrated from there. Remember back in the day the oils used where thicker so warming it up before pushing it could save your engine seals. Now with todays tech oils, not needed.
Rob
All vehicles operate best when they are at proper operating temp, so warming-up is a good thing.ybbor said:
The issue is how best to get to that temp.
This is the way to go, because you are warming all the parts, not just the engine.Daboo said:
AND, you can use this method for every vehicle you own.
+9 to the above. It takes about 30 seconds for the piston top to get heated enough that its safe to ride medium hard. Meduim hard is like driving down the street at 30 MPH or 50Kph. I go from my driveway at 25 mph about 2 blocks to the main road thats 40 MPH so I idle while I fastin my helmut strap and put my gloves on. Then its good to go.
{small HP lesson 101}
Cold pistons are a huge wear issue. There have been loads of studys on engine HEAT = POWER. Most of the 70's Ricky Racers thought "Pull out that 190 Degree Thermostat and put a 160 Degree one in and gain more power". You did get more power, 2 to 5 HP, but your engines piston rings wore out much faster. The 90's brought about "COLD AIR INDUCTION" and we have it on everything out there now. The best ticket is to have the engine at about 200 Deg'sF and cold air.
DaveJ
{small HP lesson 101}
Cold pistons are a huge wear issue. There have been loads of studys on engine HEAT = POWER. Most of the 70's Ricky Racers thought "Pull out that 190 Degree Thermostat and put a 160 Degree one in and gain more power". You did get more power, 2 to 5 HP, but your engines piston rings wore out much faster. The 90's brought about "COLD AIR INDUCTION" and we have it on everything out there now. The best ticket is to have the engine at about 200 Deg'sF and cold air.
DaveJ
Lots of wear & tear until engine is up to working temps.
Ways to warm it up
1.) I it until you get there. Nothing wrong with it, but you have weasted fuel, and then when u start the rest of your drive train has NOT warmed up.
2.) Drive slow, without loading more stress than necessary on it.
3.) Blow with a hair dryer. Even better of somebody blows the other parts same way. Make video, post it. Promise I will not laught
Ways to warm it up
1.) I it until you get there. Nothing wrong with it, but you have weasted fuel, and then when u start the rest of your drive train has NOT warmed up.
2.) Drive slow, without loading more stress than necessary on it.
3.) Blow with a hair dryer. Even better of somebody blows the other parts same way. Make video, post it. Promise I will not laught
Excessive idling? Lots of wear and tear until engine is warm?
I don't get it.
Your engine wear happens most when lacking lubrication, such as when the bike has not been running and all the oil has drained to the sump. As soon as the oil pump starts circulating oil and coating moving parts, warm or cold, wear goes to a minimum.
I would be interested in finding out what 'excessive idling' is. Once you start an engine, you can let it idle 'til the gas tank empties. It's not going to hurt the engine.
Warm your scooter up as much or as little as you want, as long as you have been changing your oil regularly and are using the right weight of oil for the current climate.
I don't get it.
Your engine wear happens most when lacking lubrication, such as when the bike has not been running and all the oil has drained to the sump. As soon as the oil pump starts circulating oil and coating moving parts, warm or cold, wear goes to a minimum.
I would be interested in finding out what 'excessive idling' is. Once you start an engine, you can let it idle 'til the gas tank empties. It's not going to hurt the engine.
Warm your scooter up as much or as little as you want, as long as you have been changing your oil regularly and are using the right weight of oil for the current climate.
Not Quite MWSY. You are correct that increased engine wear is a result of a lack of lubrication, but lack of lubrication occurs in 2 ways when the vehicle is started.
First, from the oil draining, as you have stated.
Second, and more importantly, from the rich mixture on a cold start. The rich fuel mixture washes oil from the cylinder walls causing increased bore wear (and diluted engine oil). The sooner you get the engine hot, the sooner the FI programmes the correct mixture. If you just leave the vehicle idling it will take longer to properly warm up and therefore longer for the FI to stop delivering a rich mixture (resulting in increased wear).
First, from the oil draining, as you have stated.
Second, and more importantly, from the rich mixture on a cold start. The rich fuel mixture washes oil from the cylinder walls causing increased bore wear (and diluted engine oil). The sooner you get the engine hot, the sooner the FI programmes the correct mixture. If you just leave the vehicle idling it will take longer to properly warm up and therefore longer for the FI to stop delivering a rich mixture (resulting in increased wear).
I found this article interesting:
Title: Idling - Myths Versus Reality
Myth #1: The engine should be warmed up before driving.
Reality
True, the engine must be warmed up, but idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to do this is by driving the vehicle. With today's modern engines, and the advent of electronic engines, you need no more than about 30 seconds of idling before driving away, even on the coldest winter days.
Myth #2: Idling is good for your engine.
Reality
Excessive idling can actually damage your engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and exhaust systems. An idling engine is not operating at its peak temperature, which means that fuel does not undergo complete combustion. This leaves fuel residue that can condense on cylinder walls, where they can contaminate the oil and damage parts of the engine. For example, fuel residues are often deposited on spark plugs. As you spend more time idling, the average temperature of the spark plug drops. This makes the plug get dirty more quickly, which increases fuel consumption by four to five percent. Excessive idling also lets water condense in the vehicle's exhaust, leading to corrosion and can reduce the life of the exhaust system.
Myth #3: Shutting off and restarting your vehicle is hard on the engine
Reality
Frequently restarting has little impact on engine components like the battery and the starter motor. Component wear caused by restarting the engine is estimated to add $10 per year to the cost of driving, money likely to be saved many times over due to fuel savings.
Myth #4: Shutting off and restarting your vehicle uses more gas than if you leave it running.
Reality
The bottom line is that over 10 seconds of idling uses more fuel than restarting the engine. As a rule of thumb, if you are going to stop for 10 seconds or more - except in traffic - turn off the engine. You'll save money, and you won't produce harmful Carbon Dioxide, the leading greenhouse gas.
Source: http://www.hcdoes.org/airquality/anti-i ... leMyth.htm
Title: Idling - Myths Versus Reality
Myth #1: The engine should be warmed up before driving.
Reality
True, the engine must be warmed up, but idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to do this is by driving the vehicle. With today's modern engines, and the advent of electronic engines, you need no more than about 30 seconds of idling before driving away, even on the coldest winter days.
Myth #2: Idling is good for your engine.
Reality
Excessive idling can actually damage your engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and exhaust systems. An idling engine is not operating at its peak temperature, which means that fuel does not undergo complete combustion. This leaves fuel residue that can condense on cylinder walls, where they can contaminate the oil and damage parts of the engine. For example, fuel residues are often deposited on spark plugs. As you spend more time idling, the average temperature of the spark plug drops. This makes the plug get dirty more quickly, which increases fuel consumption by four to five percent. Excessive idling also lets water condense in the vehicle's exhaust, leading to corrosion and can reduce the life of the exhaust system.
Myth #3: Shutting off and restarting your vehicle is hard on the engine
Reality
Frequently restarting has little impact on engine components like the battery and the starter motor. Component wear caused by restarting the engine is estimated to add $10 per year to the cost of driving, money likely to be saved many times over due to fuel savings.
Myth #4: Shutting off and restarting your vehicle uses more gas than if you leave it running.
Reality
The bottom line is that over 10 seconds of idling uses more fuel than restarting the engine. As a rule of thumb, if you are going to stop for 10 seconds or more - except in traffic - turn off the engine. You'll save money, and you won't produce harmful Carbon Dioxide, the leading greenhouse gas.
Source: http://www.hcdoes.org/airquality/anti-i ... leMyth.htm
Some more info I googled on warm up, it's not just the engine to consider.
Contrary to popular belief, idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to warm up your car or truck is to drive it. In fact, with today’s engines, you need no more than 30 seconds of idling on winter days before you start to drive.
The notion that idling is good for your vehicle is passé– in fact, it hasn’t been the right thing to do since the advent of electronic engines. The truth is that excessive idling can damage the engine. Why? An idling engine isn’t operating at its peak temperature, meaning that fuel doesn’t undergo complete combustion. Idling leaves fuel residues that can condense on cylinder walls and that can contaminate oil and damage engine parts. Fuel residues are often deposited on spark plugs.
As you spend more time idling, the average temperature of the spark plug drops. This makes the plug get dirty more quickly, which can, in turn, increase fuel consumption 5 percent. Excessive idling also lets water condense in the exhaust, leading to corrosion and reducing the life of the exhaust system. Idling warms only the engine – not the wheel bearings, steering, suspension, transmission, and tires. These parts also need to be warmed up, and the only way to do so is to drive the vehicle.
Contrary to popular belief, idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to warm up your car or truck is to drive it. In fact, with today’s engines, you need no more than 30 seconds of idling on winter days before you start to drive.
The notion that idling is good for your vehicle is passé– in fact, it hasn’t been the right thing to do since the advent of electronic engines. The truth is that excessive idling can damage the engine. Why? An idling engine isn’t operating at its peak temperature, meaning that fuel doesn’t undergo complete combustion. Idling leaves fuel residues that can condense on cylinder walls and that can contaminate oil and damage engine parts. Fuel residues are often deposited on spark plugs.
As you spend more time idling, the average temperature of the spark plug drops. This makes the plug get dirty more quickly, which can, in turn, increase fuel consumption 5 percent. Excessive idling also lets water condense in the exhaust, leading to corrosion and reducing the life of the exhaust system. Idling warms only the engine – not the wheel bearings, steering, suspension, transmission, and tires. These parts also need to be warmed up, and the only way to do so is to drive the vehicle.
IN warm weather, a few seconds (say up to 30 maybe)...in cold weather maybe the time it takes to back it out of the garage. it's a small engine and the oil gets going pretty quickly. If you are using synthetic oil so much the better. You don't need much time at all. I generally back it out of the garage and I'm ready to go.
The web site Polyian mentioned seems to have some bogus advice. :?
I would take it all with a grain of salt. As an example, excessive idling does not let water condense in the exaust. That happens when you only run the engine for a short time. Even idling, an engine gets hot, just not as fast as if you drove the vehicle.
I would take it all with a grain of salt. As an example, excessive idling does not let water condense in the exaust. That happens when you only run the engine for a short time. Even idling, an engine gets hot, just not as fast as if you drove the vehicle.
From various technical sources I have read, water is created when an engine's hot gases condense in the cold exhaust system. This continues until the exhaust system is warmed up enough for the condensation to stop. The longer it takes to get the exhaust system hot the more water that will condense in it. The engine may eventually get up to operating temperature when it's idling but the exhaust may not. The engine makes more heat under load and the exhaust will warm up faster whent he engine is making more heat. There will be much more water produced during the longer timeframe that the exhaust is cold.MyWifeSaidYes said:
As far as the other information on the web site, I would not dismiss it without refuting evidence.
Nowdays, with dynamicly adjustable EFI systems, the real wear is caused ny unburned fuel washing the lubricating oil off of the cylinder walls as has been previously mentioned. Therfore, the sooner, without overly stressing a engine, that you can get the engine up to its designed temp, the sooner the EFI can cut back on the fuel trims and reduce the unburned fuel wash down of the cylinder walls.
The single real reason to warm up a engine, at least going back 30 years was in the use of non dynamicly adjustable carbs - If you did not have some heat to the intake manifold / engine many times the engine would stall pulling away into traffic. It really had nothing to do with wear, but saftey.
As I drive a 1975 stock Courier, with a stock manual choke, and I do occasionaly stall out when pulling out in traffic. This is not a design fault, but a consequence of a relativly "dumb" and non dynamicly adjustable fuel delivery system. Even with the choke, the carb is only dialed in at one temp, one humidity level and one sea level point, anything else is a compromise.
Before that time, going back to the fifties and before, , then we can get into single weight lubricting oils, along with the then current lubricity and additive packages (or total lack therof, including detergents) that required a certain low limit on engine oil temp (not coolant temp) to lubricate properly.
But, we live in a different age now, and old wives tales die hard I guess.
David
The single real reason to warm up a engine, at least going back 30 years was in the use of non dynamicly adjustable carbs - If you did not have some heat to the intake manifold / engine many times the engine would stall pulling away into traffic. It really had nothing to do with wear, but saftey.
As I drive a 1975 stock Courier, with a stock manual choke, and I do occasionaly stall out when pulling out in traffic. This is not a design fault, but a consequence of a relativly "dumb" and non dynamicly adjustable fuel delivery system. Even with the choke, the carb is only dialed in at one temp, one humidity level and one sea level point, anything else is a compromise.
Before that time, going back to the fifties and before, , then we can get into single weight lubricting oils, along with the then current lubricity and additive packages (or total lack therof, including detergents) that required a certain low limit on engine oil temp (not coolant temp) to lubricate properly.
But, we live in a different age now, and old wives tales die hard I guess.
David
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