The dealer told me that the Suzuki have certain things in it that the car oil doesn't - true? (':?')

:roll:

Nothing special about it... Except maybe the price! :lol:

 

I use Auto Zone's no name brand 20w-50 works fine plus quiets the rascal down so I don't sound like a Jetson scooter or a diesel truck.

Pete

 

Whatever oil you use should meet the specification minimums spelled out in the owners manual. Other than that, avoid any oil which is called energy saving, at least that's true for the 650. Don't have a 400 so not sure if the same warning about energy saving oil applies.

 

We just went thru this a while ago. I put down what I think should be used and why. See thread below to make an informed decision.

http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13257

 

...do you have to use Suzuki 10W40 oil?

Nope.

...Will pennzoil work? Or any other type of 10W40...

Yep.

Your Owner's Manual will have a list of acceptable grades of oil, the brand is a purely personal choice.

Since you own a 650, avoid oils labeled as "energy saving" or "friction modified" -- anything with Teflon or PTFE, for example -- because the engine oil (not the tranny oil, as many believe) also feeds the clutch. Too slippery of an oil will lead to clutch slippage and possible damage/failure.

HTH.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I did purchase 5 qts of Suzuki oil from the dealer at $3.69 a qt - ouch. I'll switch after I use that up.

I appreciate the link Duncan gave. That transfer of oil into the transmission is something to be aware of when I change oil.

 

I use regular Penzoil 10W/40. (the one that says "Stop & Go Protection" on the container)

 

I read Duncan's excellent posting on oils and went out to get his recommended Mobil 1 MX4T oil. I went 4 different places in town and couldn't find it. One place said they had it in 10w-30, but not 40.

Our local Autozone didn't have it. They had Mobil 1 0W-40, but I didn't know if that would be ok. They had a Valvoline Motorcycle oil that met JASO standards, but they only had 2 quarts.

I finally settled on the only 10W-40 synthetic oil I could find, Castro's Syntec. Before I do my oil change I thought I would ask if this oil will do just as well as the Mobil 1.

TIA,

Bradley

 

Some auto parts stores carry motorcycle specific oil, which meets the specs in the owners manual and is suppose to work better at the high rpms & temps in bikes. The price is a little more than their cheapest auto oil, but a lot less than they charge at the motorcycle dealerships. As I recall they had both regular and synthetic motorcycle oil.

 

Bradley,

Sorry about the hassles for finding the oil. I did the same thing when I initially came up dry for what I wanted, settling for Castrol Syntec 10w-40.

When I came back from overseas, I had to look around a lot for the various tools and consumables that I wanted (including who had the good beer at good prices, etc). Re. the Mobil synthetic oil for motorcylcles ... I looked hi & lo ...Pep Boys carries my favorite car oil (Valvoline Synthetic 5W-40 ) and filters (Purolator PureOne) and Mobil 1 for cars. But not the Mobil synthetic motorcycle oil. Just Valvoline conventional motorcycle oil. Then stumbled on an AutoZone in my area (Severna Park) that was just the opposite...had the Mobil synthetic motorcycle oil that I wanted but not the filters or Valvoline 5W-40. Go figure.

If can't find in area, try these sites- they all advertise Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil :

http://www.autobarn.net/mobil1store.html

http://store.avlube.com/mob1mx104cyc1.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00085 ... n=15684181

The 2nd site, AV Lubricants seems to have the best price.

 

PS re 0W wt oils - I think most of them are rated as "Energy Conserving" and as such Burgman owners manual specifically recommends not to use "Energy Conserving" oils, as noted iin previuous posting to this thread.

 

Valvoline

When it's all said and done, there is no better oil for the Burgman scooters than Valvoline Motorcycle 4 Cycle Oil 10-40W. This oil is excellent for the engine and transmission.

 

Liquid-cooled B400 LOTS!! easier on oil than earlier air-cooled cycles. I very comfortable using automobile oils. Now running Valvolene full synthetic 10W-40. Burn (nearly) zero oil between changes at 3,000+mi. Service manual says change every 3,500mi.

Dealers say change filter with each oil change. Service manual says change at 600mi and 11,000mi!!! I changed filter during winter at 6,500mi, and couldnt tell old filter from new one.

 

Bradley,

Sorry about the hassles for finding the oil. I did the same thing when I initially came up dry for what I wanted, settling for Castrol Syntec 10w-40.

When I came back from overseas, I had to look around a lot for the various tools and consumables that I wanted (including who had the good beer at good prices, etc). Re. the Mobil synthetic oil for motorcylcles ... I looked hi & lo ...Pep Boys carries my favorite car oil (Valvoline Synthetic 5W-40 ) and filters (Purolator PureOne) and Mobil 1 for cars. But not the Mobil synthetic motorcycle oil. Just Valvoline conventional motorcycle oil. Then stumbled on an AutoZone in my area (Severna Park) that was just the opposite...had the Mobil synthetic motorcycle oil that I wanted but not the filters or Valvoline 5W-40. Go figure.

If can't find in area, try these sites- they all advertise Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil :

http://www.autobarn.net/mobil1store.html

http://store.avlube.com/mob1mx104cyc1.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00085 ... n=15684181

The 2nd site, AV Lubricants seems to have the best price.

Tonight was such a warm night I decided to go for a quick ride before going to a birthday party. I was driving along when I spotted Murrey's Autoparts. I went in and found an entire section for motorcycles. I picked up 4 quarts of the Mobil 1 MX4T AND a FRAM oil filter for my Executive. The oil was $8.99/quart which isn't too bad. I'll take my Castro Syntec back to Autozone tomorrow.

Thanks for your help,

Bradley

 

Glad to be of help. Ain't it amazing the differences in what the various stores carry?

 

Since you own a 650, avoid oils labeled as "energy saving" or "friction modified" -- anything with Teflon or PTFE, for example -- because the engine oil (not the tranny oil, as many believe) also feeds the clutch. Too slippery of an oil will lead to clutch slippage and possible damage/failure.

HTH.

Second to Brian's info

 

We just went thru this a while ago. I put down what I think should be used and why. See thread below to make an informed decision.

http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13257

thank you for that really informative post. On a related question, if you are purchasing a used Burgman, how do you tell that the very expensive leakage problem others experienced isn't present in the used Bergman?

---eric

 

Eric - that is now the $64 question. Related also to "Is this issue (more oil in tranny at change than when put in) documented by dealers when owners have the work done by the dealer?" Bet it is not.

 

[/quote]


thank you for that really informative post. On a related question, if you are purchasing a used Burgman, how do you tell that the very expensive leakage problem others experienced isn't present in the used Bergman?

---eric[/quote]

You can't tell until after you've owned it long enough to find out the hard way. Unless the prior owner knows and is willing to disclose it.

 

You can't tell until after you've owned it long enough to find out the hard way. Unless the prior owner knows and is willing to disclose it.

well that certainly drops the value of the used Burgman. For me, if there isn't at least $1000-$1500 margin between new and used for equivalent scooters, I might as well go with new. Which means, with a potential $2000 repair lurking in the background, that means a use Burgman would be worth $2800 to $2300.

Ouch.

It would be wise than to develop a test so that those who have scooters in good repair can get the value they deserve. And those with the problem, can deal with Suzuki.

From the descriptions of the problem, it sounds like there's a pressure differential between the engine and the transmission further complicated with a difference in viscosity between engine and transmission oils. With more pressure on the engine side, the fluid is forced into the transmission leading to the overflow. So that raises the question, what is that pressure differential and can we come up with a nondestructive test to detect the leak?

One simple test, again based on other people's descriptions, would be to open up the transmission "level hole?" and see if any oil drips out. If it does, that's apparently a clear indication of the problem. Second more invasive test would be to pressurize the engine oil compartment and see if there's an uptick in pressure in the transmission oil compartment. Additionally, one could just watch to see if pressure drops on the engine side over some period of time.

big question here on the second test would be how much pressure does it take to break the seal because it wouldn't do to damage someone's bike.


just thinking out loud, hoping to cover my ass in case I buy a used Bergman one of these days.

 

I curious if those who are experiencing this transfer of oil from the main to the transmission can state at what mileage they have noticed this. I would like to keep an eye out for this. Would this be covered in the warranty or an ext. warranty? :?'

 

Depending on the cause, I'd guess that yes under a factory warranty, and who knows on an extended. Especially if it's a 3 party warranty not related to Suzuki. You'd have to read the fine print.

 

Here's an intriguing question: how many of the people having this problem followed Suzuki's recommended break-in proceedure, and how many "rode it like they stole it" from day one.

There might be no correlation, but then again there might be.

 

Another thought is: "Does it really matter if you are changing oils & filter frequently?" In other words, if there is a transfer, but you change the oil enough so that the transfer does not over top the tranny and does not drop the engine oil out of sight in the sight glass, then is there any real practical down side? Maybe. Maybe not.

But the query by Brian does bring up a good point about following or bettering the breakin requirements.

 

With my AN400, I had to follow the Suzuki break-in RPM limits 'cause if I went over
the engine would complain by shaking or running out of power.

Along with break-in speeds, I thought I was smart and changed the oil/filter
at 300 miles, thinking I'd see metal shavings early on.
This only extended the break-in quirks to 1,200 miles before she started to loosen up.

By the time I had 4,000 miles ODO, I felt confident about being first from the light
and staying that way.

All the cycle manufacturers would do well by simply saying in the little booklet
to Stay Away From Car Oil!
I put a FRAM oil filter in one of my cycles before a 5,000 mile trip once, and took the
filter wrench cap with me to change the oil on the road.
At a motel I dumped the oil in a brand new plastic oil change tub then I went to spin off the filter
only to find that the FRAM was a silly millimeter larger and the cap wouldn't fit.
The FRAM was baked onto the engine and everything I tried to get it turned out had failed.
Had to buy another filter wrench after walking 4 miles.