Yes, you can switch it while in motion. Just don't switch it down into fourth gear while going 90mph...whoops :shock:

 

I was hoping there was a safty thing.

I do not mind it switch say 25mph or under.

But what if your going 75 at night and accidentally hit the buttom and it shifts to 1.

I am going to have to experiment.

 

Going from auto to manual, it shifts into a gear that is appropriate for your speed at the time. That is, if you make this switch going really slow, it will go into 1st or 2nd "gear," while if you make this switch tooling down the highway, it will go into 5th "gear." Not to worry.

 

+1 ^ It will lock in whatever gear ratio the CVT is at the time you push the button. Then to change it you have to push the up or down button.

 

I was hoping it was something like that.

What a relief :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

ive tried it at all kinds of speeds and everything is ok.........

 

Read the manual, it's all explained there.

 

yep it'll go to the gear its supposed to be at then you can fiddle with it like down or up or put it back into auto
But! you can't go into power from manual, I dunno why

 

I think there is also an interlock that will not let you shift to low, like trying to go into 2nd at 90MPH. I tried to down shift to stop once and revved the motor higher than I wanted in just one gear.

 

The ecu that manages the shifting ratios is a good fail safe because ive tried up shifthing with very little rpms and it wont it ratio. In downshifts i dont know never tried it and i think i never will becuse the ecu will downshift whenever necessary.

 

yep it'll go to the gear its supposed to be at then you can fiddle with it like down or up or put it back into auto
But! you can't go into power from manual, I dunno why

I believe the reason for that is that power mode is nothing more than the computer adjusting the CVT into a different automatic shift point. Doesn't do anything engine power wise. I don' thave a burgman so pardon my numbers, just for reference. Lets say in normal mode, the CVT will automaticly start shifting at say 2000 RPM's. When you enter 'power mode' It will start shifting at say 3000RPM's. Same difference in a car shifting at lower vs higher gears, just that with this CVT system, its a wee bit different on how it works. When you enter Manual mode, you are controlling the shift points, not the computer, so the power mode becomes null and void

 

TheDarkCutlass I thnk you hit the nail on the head with that reply.

 

TheDarkCutlass I thnk you hit the nail on the head with that reply.

Thanks, I've been doing ALOT of research ever since I got my ****** scooter on exactly how these CVT's work (just the way I am... I was the one that took everything apart as a kid to figure it out how it worked)

Although just recently discovered (as in 2 weeks ago when I picked up brochure) the 650's different type of system with it being electronicly controlled, as apposed to most other ones being weight controlled. Which is kinda neat that it allows you to manually shift it and such. Wish they'd put that on the 400 which is what I'm looking at getting very soon.

Heck, just did a quick search on suzuki's website, found out that the system is called SECVT for short, did a quick search on that and found this, very informative

http://www.cmgonline.com/articles/CMG02 ... SECVT.html

 

Yeah, the key thing is that the 650 CVT is computer controlled. It also has a rev-limiter, so it won't go over the red line and blow up the engine, so that is not a worry. There are 6 "virtual gears" on the 650: 1,2,3,4,5,OD. These are just "electronic" gear ratios corresponding to actual gear ratios, and correspond to the proper ratios between the variators' relative sizes. When you are moving in "D", and hit the Manual button, it just tells you which of those "virtual ratios" you are in. It is such a great set-up that I am sure there is no way to break it, or over-rev.

 

I have never found a way to over or under rev the engine using any combination of button presses. If the CVT computer disagrees with what you are asking it to do, it will not do it.

The two things I have not tried is turning the key off at highway speeds or pushing down on the center stand at highway speeds. Anyone out there want to test this and let me know?

The 3 things that the CVT computer does mess up in my opinion are:

1: The Burgman 650 exhibits a lot of engine braking in drive mode. The bike does not coast worth a darn and frequently decelerates quicker under closed throttle then I would like for it to. This results in wasted fuel, increased engine wear, and frequently means that I come nearly to a stop without using the brake, ie without brake lights.

The ECVT does need to keep the RPM's up some to avoid clutch disengagement but no where near the 2,800 RPM mark which is what it shoots for in automatic drive mode. If you place the bike in manual mode it will still downshift through the ratios all the way to first but will do so at 1,900 RPM which completely removes the AN650's annoying excessive engine braking as well as saves fuel and reduces engine wear.

In my opinion the automatic drive mode needs to aim for something more like 1,900 RPM under closed throttle condition.

2: The AN650 does reduce the RPM of the engine some when going from light throttle to no throttle (from 3,100 to 2,800) but appears to do this based on input from the throttle sensor registering closed throttle. As soon as the throttle is opened the slightest bit the ECVT immediately varies the ratio to achieve 3,100 RPM again. This results in increased engine braking when only a tiny bit of throttle is applied.

This is an annoying ECVT behavior. The AN650 has considerable power and considerable drive train lash so if you are trying to make a smooth transition from no power to slight power you have to twist the throttle just the perfect amount. To little throttle twist and you will get increased engine braking. To much twist and you will get a jerky transition to power.

I believe this problem should be addressed by damping the ECVT reaction to the application of throttle unless the throttle is applied a considerable amount or applied quickly. Also the ECVT should not vary the ratio at all until the throttle is applied enough that actual power is increased enough to overcome the increased engine drag at increased RPM.

3: The ECVT in drive or power mode does an excellent job of always being at the correct ratio for conditions. However it can be fooled by a rear tire slide or skid. If the rear tire is locked accidentally or intentionally at speed, in a brief period of time the ECVT will vary down to an equivalent ratio of 1st. When the back brake is released the resulting massive engine braking will greatly extend the amount of time the rear wheel is skidding and rev the urine out of the engine as it varies the ECVT ratio back to where it belongs. If this occurs while the back tire is slowing down due to a closed throttle rear tire slide on a slippery surface the resulting increased engine braking may cause a crash. I nearly bit it once on a wet and oily freeway off ramp once due to this.

All of the sensory inputs are already at the ECU to prevent this behavior. If the back wheel stops suddenly it will only take a bit of extra programing of the ECU to know that the bike can not have actually slowed this quickly unless the bike has crashed and damp the response of the ECU in varying the CVT ratio so excess inappropriate engine braking does not occur.

Those are my 2 cents on the ECVT behavior. Now that I have read it, it sounds like I should post the last portion under the section that Suzuki hopefully reads LOL.

 

I actually like the engine braking, but I am thinking of a time when the Burgman will be spending a lot of time in San Francisco, and it will be needed there...

 

Joel,

This shows why some people complain and some people like things the way they are. I liked everything about the transmission on my 650. I would not change a thing. I too would like to have the same transmission on my 400.

I am not saying that you are wrong with anything you had to say, but I like the electronic version of the cvt trany.

 

I'm also in the camp that likes the way the ECVT in the 650 works, including the braking.

 

My only decern about engine braking is safety reasons. When you let go of throttle you actually start to decelerate a good bit, if any car is behind you they more then likely will not notice this due to the fact the brake lights do not come on. When i'm on my 50cc and let go of throttle, I actually pull the rear brake just a weeeee bit so the brake light will come on.

 

You can do exactly that with the Burgman, too. Practice and you can feel click that turns on the brakelights. I do this all the time. Just takes a little practice.

 

My only decern about engine braking is safety reasons. When you let go of throttle you actually start to decelerate a good bit, if any car is behind you they more then likely will not notice this due to the fact the brake lights do not come on. When i'm on my 50cc and let go of throttle, I actually pull the rear brake just a weeeee bit so the brake light will come on.

Almost every motorcycle on the planet has engine braking. It's not that big of a safety issue...

 

An interesting thing happens when you turn off the engine while you're moving. The engine quits and the bike starts to decelerate. Then turn the cutoff switch back on. The engine won't start. Then use the electric starter to start it and everything seems OK. It's not. WHen you stop and turn off the engine, it won't restart, showing a F1 message.

To restart, don't call a tow truck, reboot the computer by removing the negative lead from the battery, keeping it disconnected for a minute or so, then reconnect. Everything will start and run normally now. I spent 30 minutes along the road before I figured this out.

 

Almost every motorcycle on the planet has engine braking. It's not that big of a safety issue...

FazerDude, almost every bike on the planet that has engine braking also has a manual gear bow so you can choose how much engine braking you would like as well as a manual clutch so you can chose none at all if needed! Don't get me wrong, I think the ECVT on the Burgman 650 is head and shoulders above any CVT bike I have ever ridden, but the excessive engine braking IS a safety issue.

On the 650 If you are on snow, ice, or an oily wet road and your rear tire brakes free it will NOT regain traction unless you modulate the throttle with the precision of a neurosurgeon. The reason is that as soon as the EXCESSIVE engine braking breaks the rear tire traction the back wheel will begin slowing down and the ECVT computer will interpret this to mean the whole bike is slowing down and change the gear ratio in favor of even more engine braking.

The above is not my personal theory, it is my personal experience. I didn't go down because I managed to ride a skidding rear tire from 30 MPH all the way down to 8 MPH but it was darn close. On almost any other bike on the planet I would have just pulled in the clutch to regain rear traction, or better yet, selected a lower level of engine braking by choosing a different gear so the rear tire never started to slide at all.

I understand and share your liking of engine braking but if you want more engine braking on the B 650 all you have to do is switch to manual mode and you can dial in as much engine braking as you like.

Lastly, you are not going to NEED engine braking in SF. The brakes on the AN650 are fabulous and will not overheat even if you drag them all the way down Mt. Everest.

 

My only decern about engine braking is safety reasons. When you let go of throttle you actually start to decelerate a good bit, if any car is behind you they more then likely will not notice this due to the fact the brake lights do not come on. When i'm on my 50cc and let go of throttle, I actually pull the rear brake just a weeeee bit so the brake light will come on.

Almost every motorcycle on the planet has engine braking. It's not that big of a safety issue...

^+1x10e+100 ;-)

****, Joel, you sure can pick nits ;-)

 

Almost every motorcycle on the planet has engine braking. It's not that big of a safety issue...

^+1x10e+100 ;-)

****, Joel, you sure can pick nits ;-)[/quote]

As far as picking nits, the only nit I would pick is that your response here is not quoting me but quoting FazerDude who in turn is quoting TheDarkCutlass. The "nit" I picked had to do with the possibility of loosing rolling traction, crashing, and dying, not having to squeezing the brake lever a small amount to let drivers behind you know that you are rapidly decelerating utilizing the Burgman 650's tremendous engine braking alone