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Discussion Starter #1
Next year my wife and I will be on "fixed" incomes. Personally I like both the BMW scooter and the Burgman 650. I would be happy to ride either one of the scooters, not really favoring one over the other as I generally don't care how fast either of them can do on top end. I am happy going down the road at 65-75mph

Now here is my thought on maintenance of the two bikes. I don't want to spend a fortune on maintenance but I know many are concerned about CVT failures-well, I don't and here's why.
Lets say that my CVT will fail at 50,000 miles and costs about $3000 to repair.

Now look at the BMW scooter! According to the maintenance schedule from BMW. The belt is suppose to be replaced every 12,000 miles and both the BELT AND CHAIN is to be replaced at 24,000 miles. So if you follow the BMW recommended maintenance schedule, you will have 4 belt changes and 2 chain changes which will far exceed the cost of maintenance on the Burgman.

So I am sticking with what I know best, the Burgman 650. Now on the BMW forum, many of the riders said that this was just the cost of riding a BMW and one should not mind paying the cost. Compared to a CVT failure, I think just keeping the BMW in top shape is not worth it.
respectfully,
David Miller
 

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That calculation has been pointed out before when discussing the CVT cost of the 400 vs the 650. In the long run you end up spending much the same you just do it in small increments instead of all at once.

Of course you could end up like me and spend a lot less, under $400 in 100,000+ miles. Luck of the draw.
 

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I'm not defending the BMW in any way, but Susuki says to change the belt on the 400 at 14,500 miles. Most on this site get over 20k before needing to change it. I changed mine at 22,500 miles. I'll still take my 650 Burgman over a BMW Thank You. Plus I'm not worried about the CVT failing at 50k either. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was comparing the BMW 650 to the Burgman 650. My first Suzuki scooter was the 2007 400. I am sure that many BMW owners will "cheat" a little on the belt and chain maintenance just like the Honda and Suzuki owners do. Better to be conservative than get several hundred miles away from home and have a belt go out. Years ago we attended a Scoot-Tours gathering in Eureka Springs, Arkansas and one of the Helix riders didn't change his belt and broke it. He was two states away from home. Better safe than sorry!
respectfully,
David Millefr
 

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David
I know you were comparing the 650 BMW to the 650 Burgman. My point was I wonder what real world miles those 650 BMW folks are getting on their belts & chains. I changed the one on my 400 not by miles but on the min. speck Suzuki recommended.
 

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The BMW is a fine bike. My good riding buddy has one. But for me it always comes down to that tranny; nothing else quite like it on the planet. It has options. Drive, Power, Manual modes and a very nice OD. That's a world class scooter offering!

My buddy gets so much attention with those BMW badges. But when I push that power mode in the twisties, I'll gladly take the thrill of instant power over some attention any day.

Costs? About the same in my book if buy new. But there are so many good used low milage Burgies out there. Hardly seems necessary to buy new. So costs are much lower in my case ($3300 for a 3500 mile bike)
 

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Costs? About the same in my book if buy new. But there are so many good used low milage Burgies out there. Hardly seems necessary to buy new. So costs are much lower in my case ($3300 for a 3500 mile bike)

Yup ! If you are patient and a good hunter you really can find some fantastic deals on the used 650's . I bought a one owner 06 with 4200 miles for 3K ,.Then a few months later another one owner 08 with 13,400 miles for $2,300 , the 08 had $450.00 worth of cosmetic damage , so say a real $2,750 but still a great deal for a nice 650 . IMHO these used 650's are the best bang for the buck ever .

TheReaper!
 

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. IMHO these used 650's are the best bang for the buck ever .
TheReaper!
I would have to agree. They depreciate pretty quickly on the open market. And given their trannys are relatively maintenance free for 50k+ miles, a used 650 is probably the "best bang for the buck" if you're gonna keep and ride it.
 

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Next year my wife and I will be on "fixed" incomes. Personally I like both the BMW scooter and the Burgman 650. I would be happy to ride either one of the scooters, not really favoring one over the other as I generally don't care how fast either of them can do on top end. I am happy going down the road at 65-75mph

Now here is my thought on maintenance of the two bikes. I don't want to spend a fortune on maintenance but I know many are concerned about CVT failures-well, I don't and here's why.
Lets say that my CVT will fail at 50,000 miles and costs about $3000 to repair.

Now look at the BMW scooter! According to the maintenance schedule from BMW. The belt is suppose to be replaced every 12,000 miles and both the BELT AND CHAIN is to be replaced at 24,000 miles. So if you follow the BMW recommended maintenance schedule, you will have 4 belt changes and 2 chain changes which will far exceed the cost of maintenance on the Burgman.

So I am sticking with what I know best, the Burgman 650. Now on the BMW forum, many of the riders said that this was just the cost of riding a BMW and one should not mind paying the cost. Compared to a CVT failure, I think just keeping the BMW in top shape is not worth it.
respectfully,
David Miller
I agree with you, David

Plus, BMW dealers are very scarce, which would be an issue in touring, etc. If I buy a 650 Burgman, I will buy new, since the CVT was updated, so should be even more reliable. At almost 72 years of age, it may very well be my last bike.
 

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Next year my wife and I will be on "fixed" incomes. Personally I like both the BMW scooter and the Burgman 650. I would be happy to ride either one of the scooters, not really favoring one over the other as I generally don't care how fast either of them can do on top end. I am happy going down the road at 65-75mph

Now here is my thought on maintenance of the two bikes. I don't want to spend a fortune on maintenance but I know many are concerned about CVT failures-well, I don't and here's why.
Lets say that my CVT will fail at 50,000 miles and costs about $3000 to repair.

Now look at the BMW scooter! According to the maintenance schedule from BMW. The belt is suppose to be replaced every 12,000 miles and both the BELT AND CHAIN is to be replaced at 24,000 miles. So if you follow the BMW recommended maintenance schedule, you will have 4 belt changes and 2 chain changes which will far exceed the cost of maintenance on the Burgman.

So I am sticking with what I know best, the Burgman 650. Now on the BMW forum, many of the riders said that this was just the cost of riding a BMW and one should not mind paying the cost. Compared to a CVT failure, I think just keeping the BMW in top shape is not worth it.
respectfully,
David Miller
Before I bought my first Burgman scooter, I was riding two BMW motorcycles and they replaced two prior BMWs. I have 4 other riding friends that also ride BMWs. When the BMW scooters were introduced, we rode a 200 mile round trip to test ride them and potentially buy one. However, we quickly found out they were tall and didn't fit our short inseams. I have done extensive research on the BMW scooters and followed them on the BMW forums. Fortunately, BMWs come with a 36,000 warranty but unfortunately, you need to follow the very expensive maintenance schedule to keep it in effect. That is an expensive undertaking as my friends can testify (mine were all out of warranty and I have always done my own work). Also, on most if not all of the late model BMWs, the maintenance reminder needs to be reset with a dedicated computer or a special tool.

I also don't see why they use a chain in an oil bath. There have been several cases of oil leakage from the enclosure where the chain is. It seems like an unnecessary mechanical problem waiting to happen. BMW does what they know very well but don't do very well when they get outside their specialty. I had a R1200CLC that was BMW's answer to a dressed Harley. While it was a good bike, it wasn't executed well at all. They decreased the horsepower down to the Harley level and make it with a very awkward "batwing" fairing. I rode it without any issues for over 7 years but it was difficult on crooked roads and in town but great on interstates. The weight and awkwardness is that convinced me to buy a scooter.
 

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I had a VW Rabbit, bought new in 1977. Loved it, easy to work on!

Skip ahead to 2013. I can't imagine owning any German thing with wheels, and having to pay inflated prices and repair bills. You could say, in general, Germans don't think of the owner/user when they design something. Complicated and expensive and over-engineered.

Do you buy things to impress someone else? I don't. The lack of a BMW roundel on my scooter is insignificant.
 

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I loved my Ex but I guess I was just one of the "unlucky" ones. CVT failure at 24K miles $3K, CVT bearing noise at 37K miles, would have been another $3K. $6K in repairs at 37K miles on a $7700 scooter is unacceptable. I expected much more than that from the bike but could not buy another with such poor results.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
In 1999, BMW motorcycle manufacturing was taken over by the BMW car division. There was a major sales meeting that took place in Texas discussing the "new' direction to be taken by the BMW motorcycle division. At this meeting all dealers either had to have a separate building for BMW, like Harley-Davidson does, or they had to have a separate area in their shop devoted strictly to BMW. The result of this was many BMW dealers simply closed out their BMW dealership like the one I used to go to in Peoria, Illinois. Secondly, BMW was going to market their motorcycle to people with a $250,000 income. These people usually don't ride more than 2000-3000 miles a year. Simply put, BMW products after 1999 were not as reliable as the ones before 1999. For instance, one change made was that the shaft drive was to be permanently lubricated so that no maintenance would be required. Brakes, splines, especially early shaft drives, and other parts began to require a lot of maintenance and repairs. BMW in St. Louis charges $100 per hour for maintenance! If I thought that I could ride the BMW scooter with few repairs and not much cost I would buy one. I put over 100,000 miles on my R100RT and did all the maintenance myself. The new bikes are just way too complicated - what ever the brand!
I wish those new BMW scooter owners excellent service with their rides.
 
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