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Discussion Starter #1
A lot of the threads mention that ideally, a rider should apply both brakes equally when stopping. My question is, why are the brakes on a 650 not linked through the left lever, as I believe the SW is? What is the point of having a separate front/rear lever system. As a new rider I find this puzzling, especially when I read that a common mistake of new riders is to rely to much on the front brake.

Any thoughts?

Bill
 

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Bill:

almost all motorcycles do not have linked brakes. I use both. No problems ever
 

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Bill - great question. Tho a bit erroneous. Newer riders tend to rely on their back brake too much while disregarding the main source of stoppage power..the front.

Why isn't it linked on the 650 (the 400 is)? Well there are pros and cons. I believe that ppl like me like to be able to "load" one end of the motocycle chassis vs the other dependant on certain instances.

More diatribe? Worthless. It sort of gets into the hallowed anti-lock brake thingie vs non-abs thingie and the linked brakes vs the non linked brakes discussion. The svelt 400 has linkers the 650 doesn't. the sw is available - as is the executive, with abs.

in 96% of braking "scenarios," both should be used with the amount of force that you are comfortable with.

tho the idea of just a throttle with a linked abs foot pedal is fodder for thought....
 

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One good reason is that there are times when you don't want to use the front brake, such as on a slippery surface such as gravel. If the front brake locks up, the front end will wash out and the chances of going down are pretty good. I personally prefer the choice of selecting which brake I use and would not see linked brakes as an advantage. The danger of using the back brake alone in a panic stop is in locking up the wheel, causing the back end to slide out. If the brake is then released, the bike suddenly stands up creating a "high side", not the best way to crash! However, I have found that the Burgman's back brake is not that strong and have not been able to lock up the back wheel. Also, because the brake actuator is on the handlebar, it is easier to modulate than than the foot brake found on regular motorcycles. When practising panic stops I find I can grab both brakes equally hard and the bike stays perfectly composed and stops really fast! BTW, using only the front brake is not such a bad thing, as many racers do this for the simple reason that the chances of the rear wheel sliding out are diminished and most of the stopping power is in the front brakes anyway.

Cheers,

Bob
 

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Burger Bob said:
I have found that the Burgman's back brake is not that strong and have not been able to lock up the back wheel.
Try this, Bob.

Stab the front brake hard enough to unload the back tire a little, then, as you release it, grab lots of rear brake. It'll skid just fine.

Maybe I spent too much time messing with things like that, and not enough figuring how to get through a corner. :wink:

Steve

Gear up!
 

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wasions said:
Burger Bob said:
I have found that the Burgman's back brake is not that strong and have not been able to lock up the back wheel.
Try this, Bob.

Stab the front brake hard enough to unload the back tire a little, then, as you release it, grab lots of rear brake. It'll skid just fine.

Maybe I spent too much time messing with things like that, and not enough figuring how to get through a corner. :wink:

Steve

Gear up!

Don't get me wrong, Steve, I don't WANT to lock it up!

Cheers,

Bob
 

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Tho I haven't yet done my grandious entrance into the local stopnslop with a really cool stingray bike style skid stop, i think steve just gave me the equasion! :wink: - just hope i dont hi end it in the process!

btw - my rear disk has plenty of grab enough to lock.
 

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During my MSF class I also discovered another situation when you should avoid using both brakes. Specifically in the event of a flat tire, you should avoid using the brake for the tire that is flat as it can cause the tire to seperate from the rim or some such. Someone with more than a week of experience might be able to confirm or deny this for me.

Casey
 

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Bill said:
...My question is, why are the brakes on a 650 not linked through the left lever...What is the point of having a separate front/rear lever system.
Burger Bob said:
One good reason is that there are times when you don't want to use the front brake, such as on a slippery surface such as gravel....
Casey said:
During my MSF class I also discovered another situation when you should avoid using both brakes. Specifically in the event of a flat tire, you should avoid using the brake for the tire that is flat ...
There you have it. Good answers.

One reason the 400 may have linked brakes and the 650 doesn't is that Suzuki may consider the 400 more of an entry level bike and believe the 650 will sell more to experienced riders who want more control and less of the bike making the decisions (thus, too, the manual mode on the tranny). That's not necessarily true, but that may be their mindset.
 

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I can say one thing about the linked brakes on the 400. You pull both leavers on a dry road and the bike will stop RIGHT NOW with no skid or slide. I know because as a part of getting used to a bike, I try emergency braking. The 400 is the best scooter I have ridden from that standpoint.
 

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bechtoea said:
I can say one thing about the linked brakes on the 400. You pull both leavers on a dry road and the bike will stop RIGHT NOW with no skid or slide. I know because as a part of getting used to a bike, I try emergency braking. The 400 is the best scooter I have ridden from that standpoint.
The 650 will do the same. It is heavier, but the additional front disk compensates. I've done three panic stops on mine, two were while loaded up for touring. Awesome brakes. I did unload the rear wheel enough for the rear tire to squeal a bit, but the scooter stayed straight. I've owned 17 motorcycles and several scooters. Never had a better set of brakes.
 

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I have both the SW and B'man 650. The only thing I wish the B'Man had was the linked braking system. Many (practiced) panic stops on both bikes show it's almost impossible to lock up the SW rear wheel (I say almost -tho I was NEVER able to do it) while locking the rear wheel on the B'Man is extremely easy.

That being said, I believe I can stop much quicker on the B'Man than the SW.

A bit off topic but, my advice to everyone, newbies or not, is DO NOT have your first panic stop be on the road in a real situation. That is not the time to learn the characteristics of your bike. Instead, gear up with everything you have, go find a parking lot and practice, practice, practice panic stopping. Start at 20 mph, keep the bike straight and SLAM on those brakes. Do that till you are 100% comfortable and controlled. Then go to 25 mph and repeat and so on til you can panic stop from 50 over and over.

Once you've done that, at least once or twice every week or two, practice high sped panic stops. When you see a red light up ahead and no one is behind you, practice and hit the brakes hard.

There is no skill more important to saving your life than being able to make a controlled panic stop when some idiot pulls out in front of you or stops short in front of you.
 

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Hi JerseyBiker : When you do the panic stop on the SW are you just relying on the linked lever? Or do you haul in on both? If you are only using the linked lever, I can sort of figure out why the back end stays down. Does the SW have a double disc on front?
I have a front brake bias, although I use both. My training with a police force started out with 2 weeks in a quarry, on heavy 500cc British Matchless motorcycles, with the rear brake disconnected - forcing us to learn how to use a front brake - all on gravel. With 4 trainees, we only had one down during the 2 weeks before we got bikes with the brakes all operating and went out on the road.
As an extra, I will be attending a Police sponsor'd bike safe workshop - have to wait till end of August for a day with spaces and matching my time off. I get a refresh talk, with videos, a one on one ride out for at least 100 miles with a police bike instructor, and a feed back session after the ride. It threw them a bit when I said I would be attending on an automatic 650!!! It will be interesting to see what comments arise, as we all develop "short cuts" in our riding styles over time.
Cheers
 

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I like the Lardys brakes BUT I reckon the combination brakes of the Svelte are absolutely perfectly matched to that machine and are splendiferous! :)
 

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splendiferous.

i am gonna add that one to my office spell check! :wink:

tho i still think that our lardy's do not provide the kind of "feel" that id like. superduperous power, but...lacking the tactile feel that i like. oh well, someone recommended to me eons ago...go with braided or upscale flex hose lines.

maybe i will.
 

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Pete said:
splendiferous.

i am gonna add that one to my office spell check! :wink:

tho i still think that our lardy's do not provide the kind of "feel" that id like. superduperous power, but...lacking the tactile feel that i like. oh well, someone recommended to me eons ago...go with braided or upscale flex hose lines.

maybe i will.
For the most multitudenous, discumknockerating heart stopping moments :wink: braided brake hoses should reduce any hydraulic loss thro 'hose swelling' but you would probably need a harder pad material to really capitalise and that is more disc wear too! :lol:
 

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JerseyBiker, I could never lock up the S'wing's back wheel, either- not that I wanted to, but I practice emergency braking quite a bit with it and never had it happen.

When I ER brake with a 'combo' or 'link' scoot, I use both brakes- but admit I rely more on the front. Do the same thing with the MC's, but it wasn't always that way. There's just more power in the front. But I also spent time going around our very quiet neighborhood practicing stops with the front brake only- starting out very slowly. (Did the same thing with throttle only to learn control on the S'wing).

I totally agree on practicing emergency braking- but would like to add a little for the 'new'-

Start at 10mph- go to 15- then to 20mph, etc. 20mph is a bit quick for brand-new riders.

When you first start, make sure you are on FLAT ground. Progress to uphill/downhill grades after you have 'flat' down pat.

Carefully check the area for gravel or debris or oil spots- it doesn't take much to upset the bike when you're getting used to it.

After you are comfortable- or after you hopefully take MSF- don't forget to include 'corner braking'- start a curve, straighten the lean and emergency brake. One of the things they'll teach you in MSF- helps make it 'automatic' to make sure you're as upright as possible before you apply brakes in an emergency situation.

Stay safe-

NancyLu
 

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Good advice, NancyLu!

Steve

Gear up!
 
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