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Discussion Starter #1
For those who own both 650 and 400: my GF's 400S K6 engine seems to take quite a bit longer to come up to normal operating temperature than my 650 K4. I haven't done any stopwatch measurements, but it's perhaps 2-3 times as long for the 400 to reach midpoint on its temp meter (corresponding to 3 bars on my 650's LCD meter). Opinions?
 

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Somein's wrong... Warm up time is about equal on both my bikes. I haven't timed it, but 5-7 minutes I suppose (take into account that i live in sunny & warm LA) I haven't compared times either, but both bikes seem like they're up to operating temperature about the same distance into my journeys, certainly no appreciable difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks -- we have somewhat different conditions here in Fungus Corners as you know. Average temp is about 50F or lower and our first 2 miles after leaving the house are a twisty slow downhill run (falling off a mountain, from 1000ft elevation to 50ft). So the engines aren't working very hard to begin with.
 

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In the Summer time my 400 and 650 warm up in about the same amount of time. The temp gauges are up to normal after about 2 miles of riding.

In cold weather the 400 will take a little longer but not 2 to 3 times. Even in freezing temps the 400 will be warmed up after about 4 to 5 miles of riding. With the 650 it's more like 3 to 4.

I do live on a Highway though so when I leave the house I'm up to highway speeds in short order. It might take longer if I were riding at slower speeds, don't really know.
 

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Well if your first 2 miles from the house are downhill I would think that the engine braking of the 650 would help it warm up quicker.
 

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Timed it this morning. Started out at 54 degrees. Took five minutes and about 3 miles for the 400 to get up to temp. Mostly flat riding, then freeway.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys. Her 7-year-old 400S had less than 1300 miles when she bought it last month, meaning it sat around in someone's garage a lot. I think perhaps the thermostat isn't happy about that. It's also not getting the gas mileage that I expect, which could be due to a still-tight engine and/or to the slow warm-up time. When we change all the fluids I'll try to test the thermostat ... Suzuki is **** proud of that thing, $39 list price!
 

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Doesn't matter in the least. Roll and go. Just don't hammer it in the first few KM.
Idling to temp is a waste of fuel and hard on the bike. Just ride it away.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Agree, I never idle (I even shut off my 650 at long traffic lights) and I've instructed her in how to be nice to a cold engine. But running too cold too long is not good either and as I said, the 400's gas mileage isn't what it should be, so this might be part of the problem.

Makes me think back to when I was a kid and took the thermostat out of my '59 Caddy motor ... I'll never forget that mass of horrid wet brown mousse that I found all over the heads when I took the valve covers off!
 

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Doesn't matter in the least. Roll and go. Just don't hammer it in the first few KM.
Idling to temp is a waste of fuel and hard on the bike. Just ride it away.
Idling to temp, as you say, is a waste of gas and probably somewhat harmful, however on a cold engine 1 or 2 minutes of idle while putting on the helmet or such can be beneficial to allow a little time for cold parts to begin to warm slowly and for oil to thin up just a little before you hit the throttle.
 

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You not only have two different bikes, but two different thermometers. I have no idea how the thermometers work (I'm sure sensors are involved), but I bet they do not work in identical fashion. Unless each bike displayed the actual degrees of temp, the analog needle and the LCD bars are really just temperature range approximations. Plus I don't see how an engine could ever run 'too cold' in a temperate climate.

That being said, is the 400 warming up differently from last season?
 

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If the temperature ultimately reads normal. then the problem is not the thermostat. A defective thermostat that is stuck open will keep the temperature below normal and one that is stuck shut will cause it to overheat. The 08 400 I had took much longer to reach normal operating temperature (per the needle) than my 09 650 takes. The 650 warms up faster than anything I have ever had.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Osbornk, I don't think that the thermo is stuck in either position, but it may not be closing completely when cold. I won't know for sure until I pull it out and test it. The 400 is getting only about 50mpg instead of closer to 70 so it's either too tight or running too rich, which it would if the ECT is telling the ECM that the engine is cold. It needs 15+ minutes of around-town riding to come up to temp, which seems much too long.

Flywheel, Fungus Corners = western Washington state (Seattle area). I stole the term from a TV weatherman in San Diego who was on the air there 35 years ago.
 

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I cover part of the radiator on all my vehicles in the winter, it helps to reduce the warm-up time and keep the water temperature up.
My Burgman is very sensitive to low temperatures, where the fuel mileage drops dramatically. I think Suzuki enriches the fuel map to much at lower air temperatures.
 

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I agree with Erik......and

1. You cannot directly compare 400 and 650 warm up rates from their respective fitted instrumentation.

2. My 400 used to take an age to warm up if you believed the instrument panel (it lagged the independently measured temperature), whereas my 650 has never given me such a concern to feel the need to measure.

3. I start my engine when I am ready in all respects to proceed and will be rolling within seconds of the engine establishing idle conditions. I take it very easy until I have 3 bars which is no hardship in the urban area - all bets are off after that.;)
 

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Tested the 650 today. Had three bars in four minutes, and one and a half miles. A little faster than the 400, but it was a warmer morning.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Very interesting data. I'm amazed how fast my 650 K4 gets hot. I stripped off a bunch of tupperware to make some measurements on the alternator current output and the cylinder head was too hot touch in just a minute or two of idle and fast idle. I wonder if the 650's ignition timing is more retarded than it could be -- in my book, 11.2:1 is a high-compression engine and the only way I know to obviate the need for premium gasoline is by retarding the timing or running very rich at high power settings, the way recip aircraft engines do. The trade-off is thermal efficiency, i.e. much more waste heat is dumped into the exhaust (and engine).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Timed it this morning. Started out at 54 degrees. Took five minutes and about 3 miles for the 400 to get up to temp. Mostly flat riding, then freeway.
Timed ours this afternoon, 12 minutes and 4.5 miles starting at 52F. Gotta take a look at that thermostat.
 

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Very interesting data. I'm amazed how fast my 650 K4 gets hot. I stripped off a bunch of tupperware to make some measurements on the alternator current output and the cylinder head was too hot touch in just a minute or two of idle and fast idle. I wonder if the 650's ignition timing is more retarded than it could be -- in my book, 11.2:1 is a high-compression engine and the only way I know to obviate the need for premium gasoline is by retarding the timing or running very rich at high power settings, the way recip aircraft engines do. The trade-off is thermal efficiency, i.e. much more waste heat is dumped into the exhaust (and engine).
I've wondered the same thing myself. With the compression ratio I would have thought at least a mid grade would have been needed.
Does the Burgman use regular gas in all markets or is the timing is more advanced in some markets where higher octane is the norm?
 
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