Traffic Tickets

Mike said:

I notice you go by DAWG. You wouldn't be a fan of
GREATFUL DAWG would you (the late Jerry Garcia and David
"DAWG" Grissman)?

Click to expand...

I don't Mike - I go by Pete. It's just that goofy avatar that I really ought to change! BTW - Yes. I am a fan!

Pete

Also - just found out that it is a myth. Oh well... here's the straight skinny....

Comments: The words "Too good to be true" ought to be on everyone's lips as they read the above. Consider the following:

The scheme is based on this supposed loophole: "Points are not assessed to your license until all financial transactions are complete." Don't bet on it. Most DMVs probably operate like California's, which assesses points against your driving record upon conviction of safety violations. (Source: California NOPS Guidelines.)

Furthermore, states don't necessarily issue refund checks automatically when there's a small overpayment. For example, California simply keeps any excess amount under $10 unless the payer submits a written request for a refund within six months. (Source: California State Code.) Some other states do automatically issue refunds but simply cancel the checks if they haven't been cashed in a given period of time – and keep the money.

Versions of the scheme have been circulating by email for at least two years (I've got over 150 copies on file). If any states were vulnerable to it, surely they've caught wind of the loophole by now and amended their laws to fix it.

The scheme, despite being prefaced in one version with the blurb "THIS IS FOR USA ONLY," did not even originate in the U.S. Note the Anglicized spelling of the word "cheque" in the earliest specimen. Note also the name of the organization from which it originated: "RACV Touring Publications." In case you were wondering, "RACV" is the Royal Automobile Club of Victoria – in Australia, where we have no good reason to suppose the scheme works any better than it would in the U.S.
Needless to say, we don't recommend trying it. It ought to be seen and appreciated, rather, for what it is – an example of the time-honored folklore of "Beating the System

Very Interesting!

So I emailed my two sons, both have many more toys than I.

Their responses:

Son #1

It's all BS. I tried it on a ticket about 3 yrs ago. Internet hype is all it is.
I rec'd the remittance check about a year later. It's just BS

I thought this had already made the forum rounds a few yrs ago.

Son #2

I've tried it, it's BULLSHIT. All I did was pay the state $5 too much! I'm sure they laugh as they cash the check. It does NOT work.

Any if anyone could get out of their many speeding tickets, they would know how.

Cheers!

In Kalifornia & a lot of other states you can go to traffic school & the ticket will not show up on your record. (I believe this is once every 18 months.)
You will pay the fine & a fee for the school.

Second choise & a must do if you have already used up your one chance is to fight the ticket. I have gone to court twice & the officer did not show up either time so both were dismissed. You give up the chance to go to traffic school but you can ask the judge to permit you to go. (You can even ask to go although you have used up your one chance.) You may have the right to demand that the case be tried in the closest court in the county to your home. This can be very useful in a large county if the officer would have to come a long distance.

You can also fight the ticket by mail & if the officer doesn't respond the ticket will be droped. If he does respond you still might win if your appeal is good enough. If you lose, you can appeal go to traffic court & have one more chance to win.

I went twenty years without a ticket & then got two within about three months. I went to traffic school for the first & fought the second. My wife also got one & went to traffic school. Net result, no record for the insurance company.
I was really sore about the first one but I didn't want to take the chance fighting it. I saw the cop & I was going 37 in a 35 zone on my motorcycle. He ticketed me for 52. No way. He must have gotten something behind me. A year later my wife got her first ticket in a long time. Same spot & also for speeding.
There is a lot of good information on the web about fighting tickets. That is where I found out about "Trial by deposition", choise of venue & the appeal process if you lose the "Trial by deposition".
I do have a son-in-law who is an attorney but my daughter would make him charge me & there's no way I can afford him. (If anyone in Columbus, Ohio needs a criminal liar let me know.)

I have always made it a practice to "fight" speeding tickets. Most of the time, they have been thrown out when no one appeared in opposition. Occasionally, a hastily summoned, usually ill-prepared junior affiliate of the prosecutor's office would go through the motions. Most of the time I was able to win due to better preparation. They usually asked to have the case continued inorder to prepare, as they are unaccustomed to prosecuting traffic violations. I always objected to a continuance request, indicating that I was there just a plain old citizen on my own time and at my own considerable personal expense and was ready to proceed and that the prosecution had the same time and notification as I did to get ready. This usually worked and I usually won through default or on the basis of law.
The one that I lost several years ago involved a judge who was uwilling to rule in my favor despite a preponderance of evidence to do so. His reasoning was that he was not about to upset the prodedures used by the state police, even though they did not meet the tenets of applicable law.
If nothing else, the civics lesson involved in prepararation and presentation is worth it, even if you lose.

A view from the other side

Just a few remarks from the other side. I'm a police officer and a motor officer. I'm sworn to protect people. Every year more than 49,000 people are killed on the road and hundreds of thousands are injured. Thats way more than are killed by guns. So if we want to focus on whats really getting people hurt, obviously traffic enforcement should be a priority.

The truth is, every time there is a budget crunch traffic enforcement is the first thing to go. I work in an area with about 80,000 people, 40,000+ cars and two traffic cops. Even if my partner and I both get to write all day long thats only 26 tickets. Out of 80,000 people thats not many. The truth is, most days we don't. Often we end up spending a good part of our day handling traffic accidents.

Now think about the guy that cut you off on the way home, or the one that ran the stop sign and almost hit you. You probably were wishing that he would get a ticket. But what happens when your the one that makes a mistake?

I find that most drivers actually WANT traffic enforcement! The problem is, they won't admit it when THEY are the ones that break the law. Most drivers tend to think they are better drivers than they are and refuse to swollow their pride and admit they just made a mistake.

Now remember, I do this for a living. I've been to hundred of hours of training on traffic enforcement and traffic collision investigation. I spend 40 hours a week or more practicing my craft. But when I stop someone and try to tell them what they did wrong they seem to want to fight to the death about it! When you ask them about THEIR training and experience they generally went to driver's training in high school, got their license and thats it!

Everyday I hear it, 'young man, I've been driving for 40 years!' Understanding that driving is a perishible skill I'm usually thinking, "yea, and you drive like it!"

I guess I'd be alot happier if once in awhile people would just be big enough to admit when they made a mistake, own up to it, pay their fine, and just try to drive better.

I swear, I've arrested people for everything from theft to attempted murder with no trouble or complaints. But tell someone they ran a stop sign and man, the fight is on! People just seem to think that driving offenses are too petty to warrant attention.

But THEY don't have to call the parents or spouses of people that have been hurt or killed in traffic collisions. I do. Trust me, its not fun.

Not too long ago I had to make notification regarding a man on a bicycle that ran through a stop sign, hit a pedestrian, and killed him! But if I had pulled over that bicycle rider for running the stop sign how do you think he would react? How would you?

Not trying to dog people if they want to fight their ticket. I'm just hoping they think about it before they immediatley villify the poor traffic cop thats just trying to do their job.

Hear Hear!
Immediate villifying isn't good. Nope. Thank you for your service. LA? God! Do you EVER get a rest!?

Ya know what?......
:twisted:

I toast a Nosie (in a deserted parking lot), a burnout (in a driveway), and a wheelie to that! (waitta minute...cant do wheelies with this slushpump...dat gummit...)

No - really - you make a very good point. Imo, if it's really a bogus charge, well then fight it. If it isn't, suck it up and pay the fine...Maybe you'll check your behavior next time you feel like getting overly braindead, or just plain dead.

Pete.

Another, Other side

Campus Cop,

I can definitely accept and agree with some of your comments, but you have admit that not all Cops are equal. They all swear to protect but that is where the similarity ends. I know several Officers who are outstanding and use excellent common sense when dealing with the potential mayhem on our streets. I have also run across other who in, my opinion, do not deserve a badge. There are personal accounts of police abuses specifically targeted at motorcyclists littered all over the Texas Hill Country. Some happened to people I personally know ... and they are safe and responsible riders. Not too long ago our group was chased down a tight twisty road, police Camaro easily doubling the speed limit ... on the wrong side of the road ... through a blind right hander ... slides off the road slightly ... starts fish tailing ... nearly whips around and takes out a motorcyclist or two by trying to stay on the road ... finally straightens out and shoots up to the front of the pack. What if there were a mini-van full of kids coming the other direction? That was pure and utter lawnessness and disrespect for life. He almost ran over at least two riders! When we pulled over, he was shaking ... jittery ... says that he was sitting at a gas station a few miles back talking to another state trooper and his buddy bet him he couldn't catch us. So, on a bet, not a radar beep, off he goes chasing us into a possibly horrible ending. The citation? He ticketed the first three riders for 12 over.

Then there are those situations where a given stretch of road has double yellow lines for a 30 mile stretch in a rural area with no intersections or even driveway entrances to farms. The are plenty of stretches long enough to pass, especially with the quick acceleration of motorcycles. Riding on the road common sense would quickly dictate that those lines should not be solid double the whole stretch ... but for whatever reason it is. Mind you the traffic level is very low. It is on this road where a personal riding buddy was pulled over at gunpoint for overtaking two vehicles ... it was an unmarked car following and tailgating him. Why were the guns drawn? He had no warrants, never been arrested, nice stand up guy ... that is just not right. He was targeted because he was on a motorcycle.

As far as people making a mistake ... I also agree with you for the most part ... but you have to remember that to you it is just a ticket ... to the recipient it is hard-earned money, defensive driving, going to court and worst of all, higher insurance premiums. So should you stop giving tickets ... no, of course not, but you can't expect people to willingly take it with a smile ... just isn't going to happen most of the time.

Me personally, I have found that nearly 100% of encounters with traffic stops have been very professional and probably warranted :lol: ... but if I got pulled over for riding my bicycle through a stop sign in my neighborhood with nobody around ... yes I would fight it ... but if I was riding downtown or near people and did the same ... I would gladly accept it. I think there just needs to be more common sense on both sides.

So there is another, other side, too.

BTW, glad you are out there helping :thumbleft: