[mike1nw]

I went to a local Suzook dealer to check on a CVT cooling recall for my 400.
The service person was nice enough to look up my VIN on the computer = no recall. But there was one for a rectifier, done by PO.

He said, Who does your service?
I said, I do. He replied, Oh I guess we won't get any money out of you then...

And I saw the sign as I left the dealer, Labor rate is $100.00 per hour. :shock:

Shoot, I don't make that much. And such a rate would soon render any cost savings of riding a scooter meaningless. Might as well drive any Asian car.

I can't imagine taking Burgie there for oil changes, or spark plug change, or (God forbid) cleaning out belt dust.
Much of Burgie's service is unskilled, as in R&R tupperware to do the actual work.

It seems to me that as riders become more knowledgeable about their scoots, dealers will find it harder to keep the doors open.

Even the parts are ridiculous, Oil is Oil, why should I spend more for "Suzook" oil when I can buy MC oil anywhere?

But I guess SOMEBODY is paying that, there are dealers everywhere....

 

[NormanB]

.....but there are less dealers everywhere.

 

[Daboo]

I've got a friend from church who owns a 2007 400. Believe it or not, his wife actually told him to buy a scooter like mine. :shock:

Anyway, after 30,000 miles, he finally brought it over to my home to do some service on it. Prior to that, the dealership had done everything. What I saw was shocking. Every bolt was over torqued to the point I was sure they would break. The CVT foam filter was so packed with grime, that it came off with a brush looking like it was the black foam itself. The forward bolt holding the outer CVT cover was off. We found that bolt under the outer cover when we took it off. The clutch was shot. Totally. It looked like someone had taken the parts to a metal lathe and resculpted the parts. And it had been that way for awhile...yet the dealership had told him all was well when he asked.

Dealership mechanics are not paid to do a job like an owner would. They are paid to do the minimum amount of work in the shortest amount of time. There's no incentive to clean things and do preventative maintenance like you and I would do.

I'm not a mechanic. But I can pick up a wrench to remove a bolt and follow step by step directions. It has saved me a ton of money. And I know what things are supposed to be like now. The hardest part I've found, was in picking up the wrench the first time. The rest of the job was simple. It has given me a lot of freedom.

Chris

 

[Quantum Mechanic]

Yes...I understand the sentiment expressed here. Over here is the UK we have a dealer system quite well supported by the importers and they seem to be more customer orientated. Yes, we still get the odd bad dealer, but overall we have a good dealer network throughout the country for most brands of bikes or scooters. Also, scooters and bikes are more popular per head of population here than over in the States. I suspect the fact we are a smaller country has something to do with it, but the whole ethos of dealers looking after your bike is different over here. Most don't spanner their own bikes preferring instead to let the dealer look after it. Although many do wield a spanner, myself included now I have more time. But many of my previous bikes I simply took into my dealership and it would be looked after really well. Strange you may think when I am myself an ex-auto tech with bike experience too! But it was always a time thing. My work was always in a very specialised area. We are a nation who expects much of our dealers and in the main we get it. Our rules and regs governing our dealers are strict and we have very strict measures in place to deal with errant dealers who don't do the work we ask for, or if it's not done well. Us Brits will complain plenty too if it's not done right, we don't take sh*t from any dealer. Having said that, most dealers just want to do a good job and working in a dealership as a tech is a career job and paid quite well. Any dealer not doing a good job over here doesn't last very long so it's counter productive to treat customers and their bikes badly. I guess we are lucky.

 

[NormanB]

QM you may be right but I do not recognise the situation you describe.

 

[QuantumRift]

$100 hr labor. that's about standar now, even with automobiles.

And that 'sounds' like a lot and we can complain about it.

But if YOU were in business, you would look at it a different way:

You are a small business. No way out of that one. YOU are a small business.

Out of that $100 an hour (and we can assume that there might be one or several mechanics that work there during the week), several things have to be paid:
(these are not all-inclusive, I'm sure I managed to miss something):

RENT or property mortgage every month
UTILITIES (electric, or gas, water, garbage, sewage, internet, cable).
Employee salaries and wages and benefits (probably your largest expense). And it's assumed you want to pay your mechanics a good wage so you don't have to continually replace them with turnover of unhappy mechanics and office personnel.
Property insurance and liability insurance.
Interest on the money you have tied up in parts and vehicle stock (several Gold Wings sitting on the floor along with a Spyder or two, and all those ATVs are not cheap) and other items you keep in stock to sell (helmets, jackets, etc.
Advertising and other administrative things.
Taxes on your property (if you own or are paying a mortgage or loan on the property).

Oh yea, and since you are the OWNER, you are entitled to earn a living from your business as well (and health and retirement benefits). After all, this is a capitalistic economy and the idea is to PROFIT from your work so you can live and fulfill your dream. So if a business wants to stay in business (that is the idea, right?), then they must price their services and products accordingly with what the market will bear. If the average going rage for labor is $100 an hour or so, they are within their right to charge that much. Why would I charge $75 and keep my mechanics busy but lose money each week? Out of the goodness of my heart? Not so.

So you can look at that "gross" $100 per hour and actually figure out what is being paid where.

If you are savvy enough to change your own oil or do your own work, that's great. You save money. But not everybody is competent enough to turn a wrench to do that, hence they have to rely on repair shops (SMALL BUSINESSES) to fill their need.

And with the government's anti-small business attitude, it will only get worse.

 

[Ernie M]

I think everyone understands and already knows what your saying, BUT , The thing thats missing, is doing a GOOD !! job for the Price. Just because you can charge it , doesn't mean it's worth it.

 

[QuantumRift]

Yea, that's true. But if you continually do a poor job, then you will not stay in business long.

 

[Daboo]

Here's what the clutch looked like that the dealership said there was nothing wrong with...and who had done all his maintenance till we changed it out.

[attachment=0:31xs5mss]P1040119.JPG[/attachment:31xs5mss]

The dealership not only did extremely bad work, but the clutch bell looked almost as bad. If the work had been done competently, he would only have been out the cost of the clutch. Now he was out both the cost of the clutch and clutch bell. And he got to pay $100 an hour to be screwed.

Chris

 

[DandyDoug]

I am thankful my local dealer does all that is prescribed in the maintenance manual and more.
I admit , they are a small family run operation. Two brothers raised in the business do the mechanical work, Mom usually runs the front of the store but both boys are very competent sales people who can answer questions honestly.

I bought my Wee Strom there and now my Burgman , have always been treated fairly .

Hope they stay around another 25 years. :thumbup:

 

[convertfromVespa]

I rely on the dealer to perform all service on the bike. So far, I feel that the service has been very good at the two dealerships that I have delt with.

This is also true for my automobiles. I only have the service done at dealerships, now. Sometimes it is more expensive, but most of the time, the service has been excellent and saved me money.

I understand the sentiment that the dealership may be rushing to get everything done and not put the care and effort into the service. However, the places I deal with, make an effort to make you feel like family and that they take care of family.

 

[Quantum Mechanic]

QM you may be right but I do not recognise the situation you describe.

Hi Norm, yeah I know what you mean. I base my thoughts on what I've seen in the States. In some parts of that great country they have very very poor dealer coverage and from what I have experienced, some dealers don't often seem too interested in providing good service. If any dealers over here in the UK provided service like I received when I was last out there they would go bust real quick. But I guess it also depends where you live. To some extent it also applies to the UK too. Location and number of dealers around in that part of the world where someone lives is important from the competition point of view. More competition means probably better service as they lose out if they don't compete on service. I also think that because of our better warranty over here in the UK and our consumer laws generally, Suzuki GB supports their dealers better than the dealers get in the States from Suzuki.

 

[DandyDoug]

QM you may be right but I do not recognise the situation you describe.

Hi Norm, yeah I know what you mean. I base my thoughts on what I've seen in the States. In some parts of that great country they have very very poor dealer coverage and from what I have experienced, some dealers don't often seem too interested in providing good service. If any dealers over here in the UK provided service like I received when I was last out there they would go bust real quick. But I guess it also depends where you live. To some extent it also applies to the UK too. Location and number of dealers around in that part of the world where someone lives is important from the competition point of view. More competition means probably better service as they lose out if they don't compete on service. I also think that because of our better warranty over here in the UK and our consumer laws generally, Suzuki GB supports their dealers better than the dealers get in the States from Suzuki.

I think it's more than just the way manufacturers interact with their dealers and warranty length.
In the UK , Europe, and many other countries the motorcycle/scooter is actually used on a daily basis as a primary form of transport , and even a work tool. The culture accepts them and hopefully respects them , the dealers are part of the community and depended upon to do a good job.

Here across the pond motorcycles /scooters are primarily a recreational use machine , the dealers and riders in many cases are relegated a bit lower on the totem pole when it comes to service and consumer confidence .
I personally know a couple of dealers who take their business very seriously and try to satisfy every customer every time .
I also know some dealers who take a significantly different view of customers and are doing their best to make as much off every customer on every transaction as possible with little or no regard for the long run. They obviously get more press than the good guys , and that's just wrong IMHO.

I wish that customers would take a minute to write a note to the good dealers and their distributors when they do a good job as well as when they do not.
My own experience with a particular Triumph i owned that had a mysterious intermittent electrical problem was solved by taking that tactic . The dealer went out of his way to resolve the issue and the importer was very helpful even though the machine was out of warranty.
A bit of sugar catches more fly's than salt.
I think it behooves every customer to write a short note to their dealer and the distributor any time they receive exemplary service or treatment

 

[Scootereno]

I have no problem paying a mechanic $100/hr or more for a job I can't do but.......
he better be good and do it right because I WILL check behind them. 8)

 

[Quantum Mechanic]

I agree Scootereno, I think most don't mind paying for service if the job is done well and the charge is not too unreasonable.

 

[Bakeisback]

A week ago Sean did a service on my Burgman. I waited a few months until the timing was good for both of us. The most important thing I wanted to happen was that I learned how to do a service on my own. While I would not attempt to do everything, I do feel better about changing the final drive and the transmission fluids. He also changed the radiator fluid and the spark plugs. HINT, HINT - the final drive fluid had not been changed since the break-in service 6 years ago and was a milky/metallic color. I really learned a lot and would probably have him around when I venture out to do it again. The tires are next....

 

[Scootereno]

That's what I'm doing for ChilliP (Maria). She won't ever be a mechanic but she can now change her oil if she absolutely has too.

 

[Rusty J]

The hardest part I've found, was in picking up the wrench the first time. The rest of the job was simple. It has given me a lot of freedom.

Quoted For Truth.

 

[peelbrow]

In 2002 I wrote an article on the Bike Scene as it then applied to the UK. It was published in a magazine and I repeat it here. Make of it what you will. NOTE: The prices are as of 11 years ago.


FIDDLING WITHOUT STRINGS
15/4/02

During a break from pondering metaphorical rectilinear radicals (joke) my thoughts wandered to the great fiddle perpetrated upon us by those frightful progeny of used car dealers - the bike accessory shops.
Wander around any of these emporiums and you will step back in cataleptic confusion at the plethora of biker clothing displayed before your very’s - all with more hanging tags than Michael Palin''s suitcase - and the names on the tags read like remote Italian villages: Hipora, Cordura, Vypura, Nespola. You may also see such names as: Power Skin, Drop Liner Membrane, Turbo Boot hanging from clothes that are always ‘Specially Designed’ and ‘Heavy Duty’.
Such gobbledegook means very little to the average biker and reading the blurb on the tag will elicit nothing but further confusion. One I saw proclaimed: ‘Mild lustre specially designed air textured loop makes it nature’ which conveys about as much useful information as a lookout at Pearl Harbour. What is needed (and what you won’t see) is a prominent chart showing the comparative merits of such names.
Most bike shops are usually of the pile ‘em high flog ‘em at the highest price (minus one pence)variety with pre-programmed assistants ever ready to direct you to that which generates the most profit. In my experience these assistants are little more than barcode-gun toters possessing a minimal knowledge of the products they sell. Some have very odd notions: All bike boots are unisex I was reliably informed by one such salesman.
With very few exceptions the bike publications tests don’t help much either and some of their tests are hilarious.(all exclamation marks are mine and indicate: How much? You must be bloody joking!) Here’s one from a certain popular weekly publication (yes that one) testing a £259.99(!) pair of biker jeans:‘I got caught in a storm but the colour didn't run...they aren’t too cold either’ Personally, I would expect the colour not to run if I’d just forfeited a holiday in Spain on a pair of jeans. And were they warm or cold or what? We were not told.
Another tester said he wasn’t sure about the quality of the armour in a jacket he bought for £109.99: ‘It’s pretty flimsy stuff...I wouldn’t like to take a tumble in it...you can use it (the jacket) throughout winter providing you’re not in any heavy downpours...it’s showerproof rather than waterproof’ And how does he rate this load of hen-poo? 90%!
And here’s a test on a pair of boots: ‘A soft supple feel to the leather gives you a clue that these are going to be easy on your feet over a distance.’ (cheapo thin leather that’s going to be no use whatsoever if you drop the plot).
One tester had a pair of boots costing £149.99 and fitted with something called Torsional Control: ‘They leaked water...a screw fell out of the toeslider...a hint of rain and I get wet feet... the colour ran in the rain... (hey, stop laughing) the joints bind and make an awful noise when you walk...one joint seizes and I have to fiddle to free it or stalk about like Quasimodo...the makers recommend a squirt of WD40’ (please stop laughing - this is serious) He rated this load of old cobblers at 75%. God knows what they would be like paddling through Lake Urine at a bike rally.
In a review of 20 gloves a certain publication rated them from 70% to 96% and not once did they suggest any were crap. They use phrases like ‘A well-padded feel suggests these cordura and leather gloves will be warm’...’designed as an all-season glove the only thing this one lacks for deep winter use is thermal insulation’ And £69.99(!) gets you a pair of gloves with: ‘A little insulation’ At shows there are usually a few large baskets crammed to the gunwales with gloves and sometimes bargains can be found if you’re lucky. I once got an excellent £49.99 pair of Belstaff gloves for £15. But beware - there’s a LOT of crap lurking about.
Don’t despair though ‘cos you can have a pair of BKS GP2000 gloves for £345(!) You heard - £345 But then: ‘Each pair is painstakingly hand-made using only the finest goat and calfskin with kevlar stitching. Rubber pads give impact and abrasion resistance and there are generous wrist and cuff fasteners’. Nothing about bad-weather protection there then, or the free hire of a Honda Fireblade that such a price warrants. ‘They are due at the NEC...but be prepared for a waiting list’. I wonder what the backhander was for printing such bullshit.
But wait - maybe the people in the glove queue are the same people who buy a new Yamaha R1 for around six grand, throw away the unused swingarm and replace it with a carbon one costing £1830(!) because it ‘reduces the unsprung weight by 3.9 lbs’. Oh, I nearly forgot, you will need a rotary steering damper too - a positive bagatelle at £420(!) all credit cards accepted.
My catalogue has 48 different helmets varying in price from £37.99 to £449.99(!) Most are decorated like a circus caravan and all have air vents impossible to operate while wearing bike gloves. Some are polycarbonate and others are thermoplastic or fibre composite with no indication of which is best. Nor does it explain the silver and gold badge marks nor why prices vary so much.(Incidentally there is no incentive to replace old lids for new: every 2 years for silver 6 for gold as is recommended. There should be a thriving part exchange scheme for such compulsory items) And how do they justify nearly £30 for a clear visor? They must be stamping ‘em out by the thousands.
These biking emporiums seem to be able to reduce prices by quite staggering amounts eg: £50 off £149.99 boots, £30 off £99.99 gloves, £60 off £100 topboxes, £90 off £179.99 Belstaff jackets, £500 off £1299.99(!) leather suits etc.
It’s a dishonest business and proves what we already know - that the original prices are a blatant rip-off. Especially as most of the stuff is made on the cheap in ex-communist Europe or the far-east.
But honesty has gone down the pan anyway when popular weekly bike publications (yes that one again) tests thirteen after-market cans of which only one was road legal and accepts dodgy ads like:’RACE CAN? IS IT WEARING THE CORRECT LEGAL STICKER? - it could be for £5.00’ and: ‘From the Original Visor Supplier...’ then in extremely minuscule print: ‘these products are not BS approved and not intended for use on public highways.’ Oh yeah?
If you ride a modern bike you may able to get bits for it from these shops otherwise you might as well forget it. A stores assistant at a branch of Britain’s Biggest Bike Shop turned into a slack-jawed yokel when I asked for rim tapes for my classic. They had no battery acid either: ‘It’s not needed,’ said he. I hesitated to ask for Swarfega in case he thought it was a foreign football team.
The cost of spares and servicing is horrendous. Here’s a recent costing for a Ducati monster S4: New clutch platesrecommended every 6000 miles!)£95 for parts and £70 for labour... a Minor 4000 mile service £376, a 12000 mile Major £553 a pair of brake pads £70... a Set of head bearings £70... Two sparkplugs £23 All these prices merit a(!)
The retailers of bike bits from tyres to tank bags, from nuts to neck warmers are taking all they can get and giving sod all back to bikers.
Shows like the NEC are a rip-off and as trashy experiences go are easily on a par with staring into a wheely bin full of smelly nappies. If you go by car (‘coz you’ve got the wife and kids) you pay £5 to park it then trudge for half a day to the entrance where you cough up the £12(!) for each adult plus the kids entrance fee to shoulder your way through willynillying crowds to join a queue to sit on a new bike for all of ten seconds.
Hungry? The available food is of the ‘eat it now taste it later’ kind with a greasy burger and chips costing £4.50(!) and a one tea-bag cuppa costing £1(!) And after you’ve queued for this Baronial Fayre you have to sit on the floor to eat it with a plastic fork because of lack of space! But hey, we’re only bikers. What do you expect?
The biking world is about as honest as a teenager on an internet dating line and we fall for it year after year. There should be a warning sign on the back of every bikers head:
“QUALIFIED PERSONNEL ONLY
NO USER-SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE”
(EXCEPT WHERE MOTORCYCLES ARE CONCERNED)

 

[Rusty J]

In 2002 I wrote an article on the Bike Scene as it then applied to the UK. It was published in a magazine and I repeat it here. Make of it what you will. NOTE: The prices are as of 11 years

The non-condemnatory reviews of shoddy items are based on two things:
1. Products submitted for review are from advertisers, who won't continue to buy ads in publications that speak ill of their products (even if -- indeed, especially if -- they deserve it).
2. Writers (reviewers) are only paid for articles that get published.

A skillful writer will convey the true quality (or lack thereof) in the text of the review article, if only between the lines. Or the review will simply not be submitted.