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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Bought my wife a new 2018 200 scooter which she loves put 600 miles on it almost immediately so I changed the oil went to the local Suzuki dealer and asked for the best oil I could get for her bike fast forward upgraded to a 2020 400 and again in a week it’s due for the 600 miles service but this time I looked at the recommended oil to see it calls for a JASO rating of MB no Suzuki dealer is familiar with this and now looking at the 2018 manual for the 200 it states the same thing which I didn’t use I used a MA my 2015 650 states MA rating so my question is what is the difference and if I use a MA rated oil will that void my warranty and if anyone has any suggestions on the best oil semi synthetic, synthetic,or regular oil I would love to hear it we ride a little bit of every type from short hops to 300 mile days of straight freeway thanks in advance btw the 200 is for sale 😝
 

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According to this MA is wet clutch MB for no wet clutch.


In UK, dealer has to service it to keep the warranty. Not sure about US.
MA won't harm the engine at all it is designed for bikes with wet clutches but an engine is an engine.
 

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For the Burgman 400 and UH200, JASO MB like said above is the minimum 'STANDARD' oil to use.

Higher standard JASO MA is just as good, it will cause no harm.

JASO MA VS MB.jpg
 

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In UK, dealer has to service it to keep the warranty. Not sure about US.
MA won't harm the engine at all it is designed for bikes with wet clutches but an engine is an engine.
In the US dealer doesn't have to do service to keep the warranty valid but you must show some sort of "proof" that it was done. If you do it yourself, usually receipts for oil and filters purchased are sufficient, at least in my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I agree with the warranty keeping documentation but I would hate for any warranty work to be declined because I didn't use the almost impossible to find MB oil that it calls for
 

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I have not seen any JASO MB here. It may have some Molybdenum Disulfide blended in to make it slippery. That Moly will kill a wet clutch.
 

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OK, I have not shopped for that as my 650 needs 10W40 so have not looked at 10W30's. That would be a safe oil for a Burgman 200 and 400. I wonder how many 650 owners used "Scooter4T" 10W40 and did not even look at its JASO MB and had clutch issues.
 

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Be careful about confusing “higher standard” with “better for this purpose”, it doesn’t always follow that way.

First, it isn’t going to ruin your engine overnight so don’t worry.

Jaso MA and MB have different friction modifiers.
MB reduces friction more, it’s better in that sense and will help reduce wear, fuel consumption and emissions. Reducing emissions is probably why Suzuki are recommending it in their automatics now as regs have become tighter recently With Euro 5 etc coming into force.

People often say there no friction modifiers in MA which isn’t true, it’s just that the friction value is designed to fit a particular value range for MA/MA1/MA2.
MB can be as low as they can get it - so it is too slippy to be MA (kind of worse because it’s better :) )

Having said that they me relying on MB to help in a way I haven’t heard of.
Try searching for “scooter oil” rather than ”motorcycle oil” as that is how some makers refer to MB.

Boring technical bit you can ignore if you wish:
Friction modifiers are additive molecules that have an affinity for metal/ceramic. Part of the molecule like to bond with engine materials, other parts stand off. These get rubbed and pounded into the surface and tend to align and create a slippery, self repairing coating.
So you get metal-coating-oil-coating-metal and fewer hills and valleys.

This process also displaces contaminants from the surface, cleaning it and reducing damage those particles might cause.

In true synthetic oils (ie not US Rotella type synth), the oil itself has polar properties - carrying and holding the modifiers in place while they are pounded into place and other ester molecules will then bond to this metal-bonded molecule.

With dyno oils (US also calls severe hydrocracked dyno oils synthetics) the modifiers tend to have a different additive that helps carry and deposit the molecules ready for the mechanical action to pummel them into a nice useful condition.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Be careful about confusing “higher standard” with “better for this purpose”, it doesn’t always follow that way.

First, it isn’t going to ruin your engine overnight so don’t worry.

Jaso MA and MB have different friction modifiers.
MB reduces friction more, it’s better in that sense and will help reduce wear, fuel consumption and emissions. Reducing emissions is probably why Suzuki are recommending it in their automatics now as regs have become tighter recently With Euro 5 etc coming into force.

People often say there no friction modifiers in MA which isn’t true, it’s just that the friction value is designed to fit a particular value range for MA/MA1/MA2.
MB can be as low as they can get it - so it is too slippy to be MA (kind of worse because it’s better :) )

Having said that they me relying on MB to help in a way I haven’t heard of.
Try searching for “scooter oil” rather than ”motorcycle oil” as that is how some makers refer to MB.

Boring technical bit you can ignore if you wish:
Friction modifiers are additive molecules that have an affinity for metal/ceramic. Part of the molecule like to bond with engine materials, other parts stand off. These get rubbed and pounded into the surface and tend to align and create a slippery, self repairing coating.
So you get metal-coating-oil-coating-metal and fewer hills and valleys.

This process also displaces contaminants from the surface, cleaning it and reducing damage those particles might cause.

In true synthetic oils (ie not US Rotella type synth), the oil itself has polar properties - carrying and holding the modifiers in place while they are pounded into place and other ester molecules will then bond to this metal-bonded molecule.

With dyno oils (US also calls severe hydrocracked dyno oils synthetics) the modifiers tend to have a different additive that helps carry and deposit the molecules ready for the mechanical action to pummel them into a nice useful condition.
A GIANT THANK YOU!!! And boring uh no maybe it is just me but very interesting reading and informative I just wish I write with such clarity
 

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Its kind of you to say so, I’m glad it was useful.
Not everybody likes long technical posts so I try to separate those bits.

As you’d expect, it’s not quite as simple as I wrote - anti-wear additives get confused with friction modifiers and molecules compete for contact with the metal etc.

I did another post trying to explain as simply as I could manage what 10w40 means, what detergents and various things are and how they work
How multigrade oil works -10w40 etc
 

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Bought my wife a new 2018 200 scooter which she loves put 600 miles on it almost immediately so I changed the oil went to the local Suzuki dealer and asked for the best oil I could get for her bike fast forward upgraded to a 2020 400 and again in a week it’s due for the 600 miles service but this time I looked at the recommended oil to see it calls for a JASO rating of MB no Suzuki dealer is familiar with this and now looking at the 2018 manual for the 200 it states the same thing which I didn’t use I used a MA my 2015 650 states MA rating so my question is what is the difference and if I use a MA rated oil will that void my warranty and if anyone has any suggestions on the best oil semi synthetic, synthetic,or regular oil I would love to hear it we ride a little bit of every type from short hops to 300 mile days of straight freeway thanks in advance btw the 200 is for sale 😝
These questions get asked so much, the referenced thread should be considered for a sticky. Just my humble opinion.
Honda makes a Jaso MB 10w-40 Sj . It is HP4M. Synthetic/Petroleum Blend With Moly.
 

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Just picked up my scoot yesterday from a dealer who changed the oil and did a tune up, CVT inspection, the whole bit. They used Mobil Synthetic 10-W-40, said that's all they've used for years.
 

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2019 Burgman 400 - (adding more confusion):
Owners manual calls for 10W-40 JASO MB
Service manual calls for 10W-40 JASO MA

90899
90900

I had left over Maxima Scooter 4T from my 2016 Burgman 200 which specified JASO MB in both the owner's and service manual so that is what I used.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
2019 Burgman 400 - (adding more confusion):
Owners manual calls for 10W-40 JASO MB
Service manual calls for 10W-40 JASO MA

View attachment 90899 View attachment 90900
I had left over Maxima Scooter 4T from my 2016 Burgman 200 which specified JASO MB in both the owner's and service manual so that is what I used.
Well that figures and my last stop at my local Suzuki, Yamaha dealer that had never heard of MB oil and where I have in the past taken my 650 Burgman told me the only oil they use and it’s in drums as well as they sell by the quart is yamalube so I bought that for my 650 but from now on I think I’m going to use Suzuki semi synthetic 10-40 MA oil in both bikes.
 

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Its not like doing an oil change on a Peterbuilt with 23 quarts.
 
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Discussion Starter #20
I use Amsoil 10w40 in my bike. My husband also uses Amsoil in his Kawasaki Voyager. It's a bit on the pricey side but worth it since it is Motorcycle oil.
I definitely don’t worry about the dollar amount as much as I want what is the very best oil I can get for my bike and I have heard that amsoil is good and the only other concern is I would not want to have a warranty issue and be told that I did not use the proper oil
 
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