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Discussion Starter #1
123 HP - if they can get the CVT to handle the power it's made in heaven match.

Only 215 lb - only 1 foot long block.



http://jalopnik.com/why-fords-tiny-1-liter-3-cylinder-is-the-future-of-ga-1543662936

snip

Here's one great little fact about the 1L engine: it has the same power per liter — the same power density — as the 8L, 1001 HP engine in the Bugatti Veyron. This is not a low-end, cheapest-way-to-move-a-box engine; it's a premium engine, just a very small one. In fact, this engine has Ford's highest torque-per-liter of any engine they make at all.
Only slightly tongue in cheek....but a 750 Burgman triple - hey - I'd even forgo the turbocharging..:D
 

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It's not gonna happen, very few people would be able to buy.
 

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This reminds me of my idea for Yamaha and Suzuki. To put a FZ-09 110 HP triple engine in either a Burgman or a Tmax. I'd be happy with an in-line 4 like the 1300 FJR engine, but it'd never fit. When I get these ideas I start thinking I'll end up like Tim the Tool Man Taylor. "More Power".
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
t's not gonna happen, very few people would be able to buy.
Why - it shows what can be done for cheap plus good. It's for an inexpensive car.

Yamahas new triples are very low cost for what you get. $7990
That is $2000 LESS than the FZ8 it replaces ( my son got a deal on his so we know the bike )

Yamaha claims 115 horsepower and 64.5 lb-ft of torque at the crank. And it doesn’t take long to discover the Triple’s brawn, as it yanks hard from top to bottom with its torque-rich powerband. Even wheelie shy riders like me find themselves effortlessly lofting the front wheel with simple roll-ons. And the FZ’s playful nature goads riders to hoist it further. The FZ-09 engine is a riot
Suzuki needs to get some of this kind of excitement in the Burgman and get the price down.
They've got the tranny and basic chassis. All that engineering is long paid for ....now get a bit more brawn in the engine.
From above
And it says much about the FZ-09 that we returned from what was effectively a four-hour commute with smiles plastered across our faces.
We grin on the Burgman 650 and the ingenious tranny is a big part of that but frankly, 20-30 more horses would brighten everyone's day.

Fit and finish befits a new-for-2014 model. Yamaha made sure to note this bike is not a parts bin special, with virtually every component developed solely for the new FZ-09. Even parts Yamaha could scrimp on have a top quality feel – including the aluminum handlebar and foot controls, or the LED taillights.

Any criticism for the FZ-09 has to be couched by the fact that it sports a head-scratching $7990 MSRP. This is the most astounding spec sheet claim and potential knockout blow to its rivals.

Consider the Street Triple 675 is $9399 (add another $600 for the up-spec R version), and the FZ-09 is a steal – not to mention the even more expensive BMW F800R ($10,600) and Ducati Monster 796 ($10,495). Yamaha’s dealers have certainly taken notice, with demand prompting a production increase and the addition of the Blazing Orange colorway to join the Liquid Graphite and Rapid Red models in the US.

The FZ-09 delivers a thrilling ride. The harsh fueling and soft suspension may not be ideal for aggressive riders, but they are easy to forget thanks to the Triple’s impressive performance and character. Perhaps most important is that jaw-dropping MSRP, making the FZ-09 a pivotal model for Yamaha in 2014 and beyond.
Suzuki could dominate the maxi scooter category from it's 200 up but it needs a flagship that costs less and performs more.
C'mon Suzuki .....step up.

••••
This reminds me of my idea for Yamaha and Suzuki. To put a FZ-09 110 HP triple engine in either a Burgman or a Tmax.
hah we wrote about the Fz9 engine at the same time....
 

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Me had thoughts and discussions on a triple pot mill e.g like the bmw k75 since 2003 when i got my first Burgman.

I understood i probably was asking too much, and now i don't see how the situation changed. Zuki is still a leader in the maxi market and no one has even produced something close to its current lineup, which could spur the company to a major upgrade.

The market doesn't dictate a revolutionary design, therefore any light tweaks will do for every new model. And if in such a time something considerable were to appear, it would likely cost an arm and a leg.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
no one has even produced something close to its current lineup, which could spur the company to a major upgrade.
Umm the BMW GT650 was a compliment to the Burgman as it so closely mimicked it and they are playing marketing games to get to a perceived lower price.

The Burgman 650 design is 11 years old ....they've tweaked a bit
...it needs a new powerplant and it needs to be cheaper.

You can't rest on your laurels in any business that is high tech based. Even the doughty KLR650 has had an upgrade in 2008 after a 20 year run.

The Burgman 650 may have been ahead of its time in the past decade....no longer in this decade.
 

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Err, for the 100 new Burgman owners 1 or 2 would be beemer's, who just can't do without a BMW badge, even if it's not a true German product at the true German price.


That is prob not what Zuki would consider a threat to its shares, and i think they are right. Revise the suspension a bit, bore the plant to full 650 cc and it will be again light years ahead in terms of reliability, performance and price.

They all human being after all and no one will introduce a quad core processor when everything can be achieved with single.
 

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We pine for more and yet by European standards, which comprises the largest market, 250cc is a large scooter.
 

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Most of this power already available, it called '' MOTORCYCLE ''.

Do not think it in vision or plan of most motorcycle manufacturer to have 1000+cc scooter unless very large demand and be very profitable market segment and niche market. How many heavier scoot would customer purchase worldwide.

In Europe if want larger and more power you purchase motorcycle.

The principle behind scooter is to have inexpensive, confortable, practical, flexible, economical transportation, that go anywhere and park anywhere.

Would me like 10-25 more hp, yes of course, but do not see this for several year to come, how many 650cc class scoot sell each year in North America, if you were CEO would you spend several million in R&D and prototype to take many many year after to get money back.

With everything going on in the world gas price will keep go up so perhap most scoot customer will want scooter that give even better fuel mileage instead of more hp.

It not reasonable for bike manufacture to base market need on us which drop in bucket market at best.
 

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We pine for more and yet by European standards, which comprises the largest market, 250cc is a large scooter.
The problem is we have much more open roads whereas in Urope they are mostly ajar. Well, it's not our problem actually, but motorcycles'. :)
 

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We not just put a turbo on the existing 650 twin?

Turbo charged petrol cars a trivial these days. 50% raise in output would be feasable.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That too - the twin will have a bit more grunt but I still think a triple would be superb.

•••

from another thread....

I'm trying to figure out if I'm partial to scooters for any reason. I liked the Burgman, and it was the only bike I kept year after year even when I bought and sold other bikes, because of the convenience. A big, comfy seat for me and my passenger, automatic for my rush hour commute, and tons of storage.
The BMW doesn't have that same usable storage. One thing that was growing old on the Burgman was the power. I liked my sport bikes because of the torque and power, and had gotten used to the Burgman after 7 years.

I had hoped they'd bring the 800cc version to the US as that would have been my obvious upgrade.

But overall, the Burgman was kind of my poor mans Goldwing that was more manageable in a daily city commute.
:D
 

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Those DI fuel pumps are pretty big & pricey at the moment, aren't they? Otherwise we'd see them on top dollar Ducatis/BMWs. More displacement probably means upgrading the rest of the bike to suit--brakes, suspension and transmission. Ignore the effects on mileage for the moment. That's a lot of R&D Suzuki needs to spend. Turbos take up space too. BUT...how about rejigging the frame in aluminum/lighter steel? That should increase PTW. There must be some half-decent USD gixxer forks in the parts bin to reduce unsprung mass, taking advantage of the stiffer frame. The frame is also slightly bigger than the powertrain needs, leaving the door open for a new mill. Not only does the frame/forks combo reduce the need for $$$, it fits the theme of careful evolution the Burgman is known for. Stick some fancy Japanese term into the marketing (the new Burgman follows the ZENDATSU philosophy) and you're done.
 

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I can see the possible need to be more competitive world-wide but in America our 650 is still king of the hill in maxi-scooters as far as I am concerned. I'd appreciate an improved suspension (and set-canceling turn signals and cruise control) ahead of needing more motor. If I wanted a rocket I'd still be riding my FJR1300.

I'm not a fan of forced induction on bikes, probably because I owned the first factory blown m/c years ago (1982 Honda CX500T). I know we've come a long way since then (twist grip, wait two seconds for the boost) but I still think of a turbo as more expensive and a heat source.
 

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Actually its not that far away. Suzuki has a experimental called the recursion. That has a 500cc turbo twin at 100 hp. Stretch the wheelbase about 4 inches. 4 inches wider and all the gadgets a Goldwing has. Call it the Burgman Continental. 100 hp should get it to around 140 mph
 
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