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Discussion Starter #1
Maiden voyage today after doing a few things including a clean and lube of the drive side.
Not good. Poor acceleration- a hammering feeling from the engine on the get go, motor struggling with initial launch at about 1500-2000 RPM.
Really boggy & doggy. Performance got OK around 4~5K RPM, didnt really get it out on the Road as body not fully assembled yet.

I am going to guess the clutch is engaging too early, way too early, before engine reaches power band.
I have cleaned out the idle air way but the idle air screw took nearly 3 turns to reach 1500 RPM.
Set valve gap but did not really do anything to mess with timing.

The rear wheel drags along at idle when bike lifted in the air.

Upon tear down, the variator was full of crud bits, I think that was due to the DPO never cleaning the belt drive case filter.
There were actually loose balls of junk inside the variator! probably belt dust.

I cleaned and dry-lubed, the (stock) rollers did show some scratches & wear marks but could probably make it up & down the ramp.
Deburred the lip of the moveable plate, and polished up the ramp paths to facilitate sliding.

I didn't notice much obvious wrong in the clutch side, although the original grease in the backside needle bearing (BEARING,25X38X1 21214-15F00) was pretty stiff.
Did a real simple clean and put Honda moly 60 in there. Bearing didnt feel terrible but ...

I was surprised how easy it was to compress the axial spring 21243-15F20, when I split the sheaves to put the belt deep between, for re-installation.
I am not usually blamed for weak hands but it seemed too darn easy to rotate the pulley half & compress the spring.
I have opened tighter olive jars, before my first martini.

Feel really bad learning the the clutch assembly CLUTCH ASSY,SHO 21501-15F01 isn't offered as individual parts per my current source.
I would have to suspect the 'trampoline' springs (that keep the clutch shoes retracted) as the most obvious culprit for early lock up.
The clutch bell showed only few & minor blue spots, bell overall did not look truly overheated.
I only test drove and rode the machine home after buying, and it was kind of "hammery" but not this bad, so perhaps I screwed up something upon my servicing.

Like I said, I suspect the clutch isn't properly slipping at low RPM.

I sincerely appreciate the advice I guess will be offered by you "Burg'gurus" ® on what to look for and do.
Tearing down the drive side in a day or two to look for more money to spend.
 

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Sounds like you got to know your ride a little better! :thumbup:
I personally will not use dry lube on the slider weights as I feel it actually causes wear and gunk to build-up.
The "stiff" and waxy grease is the culprit of the clutch needle bearing getting a knocking sound so it is good you replaced it.
My clutch has always engaged at 1400 rpms and the rear wheel will try to roll when up in the air - that is all quite normal. It is advised to rev up the rpm's at take off to get the clutch to engage and hold it at higher rpms to keep it from slipping - I like around 4500 rpm's. That may help that "Hammering" you mentioned. I wonder if some dry lube or grease might have found it's way somewhere it shouldn't have. :?
The 400's do have a distinct "Wookie" growl sound at take off when the throttle is opened up but if you roll on the throttle it isn't that noticeable. The 400's power band does seem to be 4000-6000 rpm and I get the best performance @ 5400 rpm which is ~ 58 mph on the speedo.
Good Luck with your ride and I hope the Hammering is resolved. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: terrible performance off the line FIXED

self inflicted ; It was the variator.
Evidently when I installed variator after recent drive case clean up, I allowed one or more of the rollers to fall out of track, wedging the pulley moving half in "high gear".
Scooter was simply trying to take off from low speeds in HIGH !
Clutch seemed fine (ignoring the still bothersome issue that I can split the pulley sheaves with finger strength, when putting the belt deep in the halves for easier final assembly)

Fix was simply to reassemble correctly ! Put the rollers back in place and install as same.

This also explains perhaps why some other burguru decided that the "socket locker" (to hold the variator steady for re- torquing) which I described elsewhere didn't work.

I originally used a largish socket ( a 14mm 1/2 drive), a chunk of craftsman approaching 1inch outer diameter.
This was possible to fit, since the moving pulley was at or near "higher gear" ( ie the pulley as fairly far OUTBOARD, giving best access behind the moving pulley).

When I had the moving pulley better-located (at least to hold the rollers in place) in "low gear" ( ie full INBOARD) there was not enough space for that largish socket to lock up on one of the small fins on the variator back side.

However, with the variator in ~full LOW GEAR position, there was sufficient gap for a much smaller OD 1/4"drive deep well socket to fit & perform the same function.
So I stand by the concept & will post a pic later before others think I am crazy ( at least in that regard. ThE rest I kNow abouT) .

Scoot does the 400cc acceleration test (ie poochie but adequate) just fine now.

This fix / correction also reduced the rear wheel "free-wheeling" (rear wheel in air).
I surmise this is due to the fact the the front pulley , in low gear, thus running the belt at a lower linear speed @ idle, delivered less centrifugal effect on the clutch side, keeping it from engaging too early compared to a permanent high gear setting.

Say did I tell you the one about the eye-level 3rd brake light I batched into the backrest ? thats another story ...
 

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Well.........you did much better than I did.!!!! Just make sure that the 24mm nut is torqued down and the CVT belt are in the lowest position!!

I thought that mine was snugged down properly and a few days later - It spun off....costing me a new belt outer case and sundry other parts to the tune of $1,200.00

:( :(
 

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Discussion Starter #5
fixed performance off the line

Scootereno said:
Sounds like you got to know your ride a little better! :thumbup:
I personally will not use dry lube on the slider weights as I feel it actually causes wear and gunk to build-up.
The "stiff" and waxy grease is the culprit of the clutch needle bearing getting a knocking sound so it is good you replaced it.
My clutch has always engaged at 1400 rpms and the rear wheel will try to roll when up in the air - that is all quite normal. It is advised to rev up the rpm's at take off to get the clutch to engage and hold it at higher rpms to keep it from slipping - I like around 4500 rpm's. That may help that "Hammering" you mentioned. I wonder if some dry lube or grease might have found it's way somewhere it shouldn't have. :?
The 400's do have a distinct "Wookie" growl sound at take off when the throttle is opened up but if you roll on the throttle it isn't that noticeable. The 400's power band does seem to be 4000-6000 rpm and I get the best performance @ 5400 rpm which is ~ 58 mph on the speedo.
Good Luck with your ride and I hope the Hammering is resolved. :wink:

Know it ? Well, adversity evidently a great icebreaker.
Building it first time I felt like the rollers moved but didn't fully realize one or two slipped out of track and it went together "looked" OK when incorrect.
Pretty obvious when I took the outer metal cover off & watched the variator in action. No low gear postion.

I think a decent dry lube job is a good thing, not overdone, cant really make mess.
Its a pretty hot dusty environment anyway with lots of centrifugal cleaning.
I bet dry lube only helps matters a short while but little downside.

I use a Honda Moly60 (or BMW grease, their stuff recommended for buried throwout bearing) on all splines, slider and needle bear.
BMW grease probably resists sling-off a little better, but I go easy on the moly (lightly paint brushed on) where ever it risks going to belt. A dabb will do.

My OE rollers came out with a couple marks and flats. Deburred the steel plate.
Up and down ship feels fine. Have not maxed it , but seems slow to go and / or low top speed compared to a 400 Majesty
(Burg yielded 70 MPH indicated just over 7K RPM , two up riders, it didn't feel like wanted to go much faster).

Ditto on the Wookie growl! almost perfect description.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
v8eyedoc said:
Well.........you did much better than I did.!!!! Just make sure that the 24mm nut is torqued down and the CVT belt are in the lowest position!!

I thought that mine was snugged down properly and a few days later - It spun off....costing me a new belt outer case and sundry other parts to the tune of $1,200.00

:( :(
ouch terribly sorry to hear that.

I would give up my ratchet before surrendering my torque wrench.
I posted a little assembly aid to help with variator torquing, please see
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=58626
Note a smaller diameter socket (1/4" drive deep well type) is probably better than what I photoed.
 
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