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I know this has been discussed before, but my "new to me" scooter has synthetic oil in it and I think I am due to change it in about 4-500 miles. I am thinking about changing it with synthetic but it costs twice as much. Is it true you can go twice as long before you have to change it? I always used 10w-40 and changed it on time-never had a problem. I think this one backs up easier with the synthetic. JC
 

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jcdorz said:
I think this one backs up easier with the synthetic. JC
If your last 650 was a 03 (I think I read that) backing up is easier due to model changes. The 03s were very hard to back up.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good to know. I thought I read somewhere here that the scooter moved a little easier with sythetic oil-with engine turned off. JC
 

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Synthetic oils are better than petro oils at 2 things... extreme temperature (hot and cold) performance and extreme pressure stability. A Burgman subjects its oil to neither condition.

Beside simple lubrication, oil is intended to suspend and hold dirt and contamination that accumulate in the engine and are removed by renewing the oil supply periodically. Imposing an extended drain interval on an engine and then allowing dirty oil to remain in the crankcase for long periods does nothing good for the engine.

There's no advantage to using synthetic oils in a Burgman engine or than ego gratification. The engine doesn't need it.
 

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I avoid synthetic oils like the plague....just a personal preference.
But, if it has synthetic oil in it already stay with it forever.
That's what I have had to do with my sports car that came filled with synthetic oil. :?
 

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As said above, no real need to use Synthetic. I do use Rotella T synthetic as it is $19 a gallon at Walmart. But it is also a 5W40 that is a 40 weight oil but flows better (the 5W part) when its cold up here in the NorthWet. As I ride year round I see days of low teens when I leave to ride 41 miles to work. I do my oil AND filter changes at 5000 miles and I get a warm fuzzy with syn oil. YMMV.
 

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My mechanic uses AMSOIL synthetic scooter oil... I have used synthetic oil for years... anything that reduces friction is worth it... I change oil every 8 to 9k miles... When I drain it out,,, I save it and use it in my riding lawn mower... It is still clean when I drain it out of the scoot...
 

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But, if it has synthetic oil in it already stay with it forever.
That's what I have had to do with my sports car that came filled with synthetic oil.
Hooey!! Unless you have one of the few rare cars (one of the Camaro models fits here) that truly DOES require synth oil, you can use any oil, conventional or synthetic, that meets the engine maker's requirements for API service rating (I think "SN" is the latest). And you can switch freely from synthetic to conventional to synthetic blend with no ill effect to the engine or the warranty.

This disinformation has been a part of the car maker / oil maker partnership for years. Oil maker ABC approaches (is approached by) car maker XYZ with a deal to use ABC's synth oil as factory fill supplied at low cost if XYZ will continue to "strongly encourage" car buyers to remain with that oil. It seems to have worked well for all involved as the number of such partnerships has continued to grow over the years.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok, so it is or is not ok to change to regular oil when I change my oil? So no real advantage to using synthetic oil? I thought you could go twice as long with synthetic but it cost twice as much. I've always used the cheapest price 10w-40 oil I could find. JC
 

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JC I would stay with the syn oil as used by the other owner. Oil is cheap compared to what you get for your money. Where you might run into a problem is putting the syn oil into an old engine that never used, it may leak oil.
 

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JC, as you can see there are lots of opinions on oil! I'm an engineer and ex tech but I'm not an oil expert. But my advice would be stick with synthetic if it's already been run on it. Do you need synthetic? No...but synthetic oil reduces engine wear to as close to zero as is possible no matter what engine it's used in. As has already been said, it flows better at all times in the engine, but especially when the engine is cold. This is very important as that's when most engine wear takes place, and protects better at very high temps too and when under extreme pressure. The oil film strength is much much stronger than normal semi synthetic and it reduces friction, therefore pumping losses are less when riding so fuel economy can be better by a little. Due to all of the above, fully synthetic oil does usually stay cleaner for longer because it lubricates better reducing friction and heat, it doesn't carbonise or break down (damage) as easily so keeps the engine cleaner inside over much bigger distances. So you can go further between changes if you wish subject to the sort of riding you do. If you do very short trips all the time then the usual rules apply about changing it earlier than the normal recommendations in the book. But whatever you use the bike will still be ok but will be better on fully syn, no question, it's proven. Now my new 400 has covered enough miles (all the engine conforming has taken place now) I'm going to start using fully synthetic in it.

Over here in europe, there are many different oils for different types of engine. For example, the Volkswagon Audi Group (VAG) diesel engines in cars (the majority of our cars in europe use diesel engines) require a particular fully syn oil that has an extreme pressure agent in it. Many owners fail to read the owners handbook properly and often put the wrong fully synthetic oil in the engine. This results in the engine destroying it's camshafts after just a few thousand miles. This isn't covered under warranty either if the wrong oil has been used and the workshops do test the oil to make sure it's to spec. It's one example of how important it can be to use the right stuff as recommended by the manufacturer. There is more to it than simply a marketing excercise these days. Most of our cars over here, petrol or diesel go anywhere from 12 to 30k miles inbetween oil changes. That's normal over here and the engines still go 250-350k miles with no problems. If the oil looks dirty it doesn't mean it needs changing, it means the oil is doing it's job and suspending the micro particles of dirt in it rather than letting it block the oil ways. It's all good though...enjoy the bike JC. :cheers:
 

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There is nothing inherently wrong with using synthetic oil in combination with a GOOD oil filter to extend your oil change intervals. Synthetic oil is easier to pump thru the engine as well. My 1990 Isuzu engine with (now) 192,000 miles on probably did not need synthetic oil over its lifetime, however, on my recent cross country trip of 2000 miles, towing a trailer that with cargo weighed nearly 3000 lbs, and having the throttle wide open virtually all of the trip...I-10 to I-25, then I-40 thru NM, TX and OK, then I-44 to St. Louis to I-70 to Columbus, I can say without reservation that the engine burned NO oil at all during the trip. NONE. It was FULL when I left AZ, and when I arrived last Sunday night, it was still FULL. No burning, no leaks. During my ownership of that truck from 15 miles to now, I only used synthetics and top rated oil filters.


Beside simple lubrication, oil is intended to suspend and hold dirt and contamination that accumulate in the engine and are removed by renewing the oil supply periodically. Imposing an extended drain interval on an engine and then allowing dirty oil to remain in the crankcase for long periods does nothing good for the engine.

There's no advantage to using synthetic oils in a Burgman engine or than ego gratification. The engine doesn't need it.[/quote]
 

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Is it possible by using synthetic oil that wear on the cams could be significantly reduced so as to safely extend valve adjusments well beyond 15K?
 

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I my own opinion, take it or leave it, in this day and age of super refined oils, NO synthetic oil will prolong engine life any better than a good quality base oil if the oil is changed at the same mileage spans of 5,000 miles or so. But 30 years ago, yes. Why is it that in 1965 my Barracuda's oil had to be changed every 3,000 miles and to this day "Iffy Lube" still pushes a 3,000 mile change. In those 46 years, the machining of internal parts as gotten 1,000 times better and the formulation of oils has also. Such a waste of resources.

But if it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling, by all means, its your money. :thumbup:
 

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I can't speak for my Burgman 650 (yet), however, when I R&R'd the he head on my truck at 160K miles, I was able to use the OEM camshaft out of the OEM head as it was shiny, no signs of wear, and mic'd out to factory OEM camshaft. NO wear on the camshaft or bearings. I was tempted to reuse the OEM bearings, but opted not to as they were fairly cheap, so I used new ones. ....at 192K miles, the oil pressure is still running at 55 psi. So I'm sold on synthetic oil.

born1928 said:
Is it possible by using synthetic oil that wear on the cams could be significantly reduced so as to safely extend valve adjusments well beyond 15K?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Should I get 10W-40 synthetic if I'm gonna get synthetic? JC
 

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Suzuki calles for 10w-40. Mobile makes a nice synthetic motorcycle oil, 10w-40 Racing oil. I use it often. Lucas makes a nice synthetic motor oil, as does Valvoline. Do not scrimp on your filter. Use a Wix or NAPA Gold filter. There is nothing inherently bad with the Suzuki OEM filters, however, I do not know how long the filter can work when using a synthetic oil. I have used several K&N filters as well with great results. I use synthetic and change it at 5K and upwards, depending on how it looks, etc. You can actually have an oil analysis done and you can determine how long you can go between changes.

jcdorz said:
Should I get 10W-40 synthetic if I'm gonna get synthetic? JC
 

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"Suzuki calles for 10w-40. Mobile makes a nice synthetic motorcycle oil, 10w-40 Racing oil. I use it often."
Oils labeled as "racing oils" will not contain the additive packages that allow "street" oils to survive stop-and-go driving, contamination due to idling and low speeds, and operation at above and below their designed operating temperatures. Racing oils are not intended to remain in a crankcase for extended periods and under these conditions.
 

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Not opinions... facts... gained over many years of working with oils and the labs that produce and analyze them. I've worked with Blackstone on numerous occasions and they are sharp people.

Oil analysis, if you're suggesting such by including the link, is useless to most individuals and/or to owners of only 1 or two vehicles that are tested. Analysis is intended to be an ongoing process that monitors the condition of the lubricants and the conditions of the engines they are contained in over years of service. For an individual, the cost of one comprehensive oil analysis would pay for years' worth of oil changes. And without base numbers on both the engine as new and the lubricant used in it, individual oil tests are virtually meaningless. Regular changes of quality oil at intervals that reflect the kind of use the engine receives are far more practical that even 1 oil analysis.
 
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