[Ted White]

I removed a few panels today to look at fluid change accessibility. It's really rather easy. I also removed the air cleaner, again rather easy, thanks to Allwalk's pics.

The air cleaner looked as if it had just come out of the box: brand new, and that's with 2200 miles.

My question is this: Seeing as the engine and transmission have separate sumps, is there any reason not to switch to synthetic oil? Both apparently use 10W40. Also, why not use synthetic gear fluid in the final drive unit?

I use either Royal Purple or Amsoil in my Passat, although Mobil 1 is certainly a consideration for the Burgman, as it is cheaper if purchased at Walmart.

By the way, a hard core Honda 929 sport bike friend rode my Burgman. He has all sorts of soft luggage strapped to his crotch rocket so he can go shopping. After riding the Burgman, and closely examining all the various places you can put stuff (he fell in love with the CV) he is actively looking to buy an AN650. If anyone knows where he can get one, let me know.

 

[dabimf]

Synthetic Oil Switch

I use the synthetic Royal Purple in the driveshaft. I plan to use RP in the motor as soon as I put on enough miles when I feel it is broken in properly. I plan on using dino oil in the transmission and changing it more often. I don't like synthetic oils on the clutch material. I'm sure that synthetic oil in the transmission would be fine but it's just a "thing" I have against it. Nothing scientific really it's just me. I know that the purpose of oil in a wet clutch is to keep it clean and cool and synthetic oil does a better job than dino oil in these areas. Since I will be using dino oil in the transmission I will change the oil more often.

 

[abm]

Re: Synthetic Oil Switch

. I'm sure that synthetic oil in the transmission would be fine but it's just a "thing" I have against it. Nothing scientific really it's just me. I know that the purpose of oil in a wet clutch is to keep it clean and cool and synthetic oil does a better job than dino oil in these areas. Since I will be using dino oil in the transmission I will change the oil more often.

I thought the clutch is dry and that the 10-40 in the tranny is just to cool bearings and has no friction duties.???

 

[allwalk]

I replaced the final drive with synthetic oil in my last oil change. Still using the Suzuki spec oil in the engine and tranny. I'm entertaining thoughts on going to synthetic as soon as I'm confident that the rings and stuff are all broken in properly. Actually I guess I will change after I use up the case of Suzuki 10-40 oil that I purchased.

 

[Ted White]

I think we need Pauljo in here, or some who knows exactly how the drive train works.

I'm gonna guess: It does not have wet clutch, nor does it have a drive shaft.

 

[pauljo]

Final drive is a series of gears - not shaft.

I've got to defer to someone else on the clutch.

I wish the service manual I ordered would get here...

 

[doug]

i started using amsoil as soon as the breakin was done in the motor ,tranny ,and final drive and just hit the 25000 kms today .i have not experanced any prolbems . i used amsoil in my goldwing for 140,000 km also without a prolbem

 

[Ted White]

Pauljo, thanks.

And I really don't think there's a "clutch," wet or otherwise.

I wish my shop manual would come, too. I ordered it from Oneida Suzuki.

Doug: Thanks for the synthetic info. I'll switch to synthetic at the next change interval.

By the way, I drove my hard core Honda 929 friend up to Tucson today and he bought a new silve Burgman 650. $6700 out the door, price reduced because of a demoride,apparently dropped it a very slow speed. Only a scrape along the lower panel and a small one one the muffler.

 

[Schlepp]

There is a clutch (just like big bikes), that engages automatically when Rpms reach a certain level, instead of being engaged manually as on non-scooter type bikes, and it is wet (oil wet).

 

[aehansen]

synthetic fluids

Schlepp is right on- the clutch is like any other wet clutch except it engages by centrifugal force when rpm's reach the correct rate-about 1500-2000 rpms. From what I've seen on forums dealing with lubricants, the only real no-no with a wet clutch is using oil with "excessive" friction modifiers (they all have some) which will be identified in the lower half of the API circular label on the container. Synthetic oil is apparently fine, but seems to come out on the short end of any cost-benefit analysis. However, it is a superior lube- your choice.

 

[Ted White]

Thanks Schlepp & Aehanson for clearing this up.

As all the new car recommend oils have the "excessive friction modifiers" and are usually in the 5W20 or 5W30 range, can I assume 10W40 won't have as many modifiers and will be OK to use?

 

[dabimf]

As I stated before, because of the "wet" clutch I tend to stay away from synthetic oils in the transmission. Once again this is just a "thing" I have with transmissions on bikes. Aehansen is correct regarding the friction modifiers in the light weight oils. Stay away from them or you will be replacing the clutch soon.
As far as the term 'driveshaft' that I used in describing the rear drivetrain is concerned, it was used because of a lack of a better word in my vocabulary. I realize it's not a driveshaft in the true sence but it requires oil like a driveshaft hence I use the term. I state this as not to confuse new owners.

 

[aehansen]

synthetic fluids

Ted- I think that the oils you mention 5w-whatever, probably have friction modifiers added-again, look at the round API label on the oil container: if the lower half is blank, you're OK. A rule of thumb I've seen repeated often, is to use the HEAVIEST weight oil that is approved in the vehicle's manual, e.g., use 20w-50 if the lowest ambient temperature at startup is in the approved temperature range on the chart. As an aside, a petroleum engineer on the web claimed that "heavy duty" oils for diesel engines, all of which seem to be 15w-40, have an additive package that is very nearly the same as the expensive motorcycle-specific oils- an example would be Shell Rotella T, available at many discount stores. Sorry to be so long winded, but oil seems to be one of those topics like politics and religion. The single most important thing is to change oil at least as often as stipulated in the manual, adjusted for your riding habits,regardless of the brand.

 

[Ted White]

Thanks, AE.

I typically change oil more frequently than recommended. (For example, some of the oil change intervals recommended in new car owner's manuals are scary: 8-10,000 miles, or so I've heard. My Passat recommends 5K intervals. I adhere to those because I use synthetic).

I also factor in time because of the degradation of dino oil due to pollutants entering it from engine use and then just sitting there. For examply, my girlfriend's car, a 99 Taurus, only gets driven 3K miles per year, so I change oil and filter every six months.

At this point, only having had my Burgman for 1 month, I'm not sure how many miles I'll be putting on it, although as of today I've increased the odometer reading by 1000 miles in exactly one month, in which case time won't be a factor. Mileage will be. As I changed the oil and filter immediately after I bought it on April 10th, I'll probably change it again after I've put 2,000 more miles on it.

At that point it will have 4400 miles on the engine, and I'll probably switch to synthetic in the engine, as it's separate from the tranny, and change it every 4K miles. However, based on comments about the transmission, I will avoid synthetic and stick with Castrol GTX 10W40.

You're right about oil debates rivaling politics and religion. If you really want to see wretched excess in oil debates, try Fred's TDI Page, devoted to the new generation of turbo-direct-injection Volkswagen diesel engines.
It seems most of these car owners are engineers, petroleum and otherwise, and they get into bypass filters, oil analyses, etc. Very spirited debate, ad nauseum.