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Discussion Starter #1
Forgive me if this has been addressed before, but a cursory search of the knowledge base did not yield specific results... My 650 has a tendency of switching to manual mode once its been sitting over night.

I always come home in Drive mode and occasionally, the next day or two, I start her up, she'll be in first "gear". It not a big deal to switch back to Drive mode, but a couple times I've driven off and not noticed. Next thing I know the engine is wound up to red line and I'm frantically searching the transmission buttons for an up shift or Drive mode.

Again, not a big deal, but I wonder if this is indicative of a deeper problem. Any help would be appreciated.
 

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I am new to forum and have a question sorta related to yours (kinda) hope you can help... while driving in auto mode say 45-50 mph what would happen if i pressed button to manual mode .. would i be ejected because i hit first gear or would i go into 4th, - 5th. gear ... or would nothing happen?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am new to forum and have a question sorta related to yours (kinda) hope you can help... while driving in auto mode say 45-50 mph what would happen if i pressed button to manual mode .. would i be ejected because i hit first gear or would i go into 4th, - 5th. gear ... or would nothing happen?
No problems. You can switch between manual, power and drive mode as you see fit. The computer control will switch between them with a minimal amount of transition. Have at it next time you ride.
 

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It would select the closest gear to the drive train ratio that it is currently running... No harm at all. You can switch between drive, manual and even sport mode at will with no harm.
 

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In answer to Manual mode, all three of my 650's would always be in D when started or restarted. Never has mine started in manual mode and I have never heard of others till now.

I am new to forum and have a question sorta related to yours (kinda) hope you can help... while driving in auto mode say 45-50 mph what would happen if i pressed button to manual mode .. would i be ejected because i hit first gear or would i go into 4th, - 5th. gear ... or would nothing happen?
Pat, you can change at will. It will not go to first gear at 70 MPH. If I am doing 50 MPH up a hill and go from Auto to manual it goes to 4th gear
 

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If you press manual mode, it will select a gear corresponding to "Power mode", so if it's lower revs you are looking for, you have to press "Up" a few times.

As to the original question, it sounds more like a stuck center stand switch, keeping the CVT in lowest gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
As to the original question, it sounds more like a stuck center stand switch, keeping the CVT in lowest gear.
Really? That might be it. I had no idea the center stand would put it in manual, 1st gear mode. My center stand is a bit sticky and I have to keep it on the center stand to get both bikes in the storage shed.

Cool, a little oil on the center stand hinge should solve the problem then. Thanks Erik.
 

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The hinges deserve some oil from time to time, but it's the switch's plunger you should clean.

I don't know if it's displayed as manual mode, but a sticking switch will keep it in first gear.
 

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The hinges deserve some oil from time to time, but it's the switch's plunger you should clean.

I don't know if it's displayed as manual mode, but a sticking switch will keep it in first gear.
... but it won't display as manual mode.

I can think of only two possible scenarios where it will display 1 on startup.

A. Fluid/corrosion in the manual switch causing it to short out.

B. a dying Primary Pulley Position Sensor (which will most likely display other CVT related symptoms as well.

I'd check for A. first. :cool:
 

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The auto/manual switch is a spring loaded 2-pole switch like the horn button.
The controller toggles between auto and manual each time it receives a signal from this switch, but default at startup is auto.
Could somebody with a working scoot within reach please investigate what happens if you keep the auto/manual button depressed while turning the ignition on and starting the engine?
 

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... but it won't display as manual mode.
I agree completely. I have never heard of this happening, and it's not adequately explained by a stuck center stand switch.
 

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I also have never heard of this happening. Even if my bike is in manual mode when I turn it off it will switch to auto mode the next time I start it.

Like Garry I don't believe a stuck center stand switch could cause it either. The CVT would stay in it's lowest ratio but it would still indicate auto mode not manual. I also concur with his suggestion to check the auto/manual switch for problems along with the wiring for that switch. Checking the wiring would also include checking the pin it connects to on the ECM for a loose connection.

I have never heard of a failing PPS causing this issue but I guess it could be possible. I would be more inclined to think that if there is no problem with the auto/manual switch or wiring then a problem with the ECM is the next likely cause.
 

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I'd just caulk it up to those Burgman Gremlins. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Okay I tried it this morning. Started it up on the center stand and it was in Drive mode. Took it off the stand, still in Drive. BUT I have a sticky center stand and it did not fully retract. As soon as I kicked it up and it was fully retracted, the darn thing went into 1st gear manual mode. WTF?

I suppose its been doing this all along, I just never figured out the center stand aspect.

Also, it only seems to happen in the morning, when its been sitting and cold. Works fine the rest of the day.

Any ideas?
 

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That's a puzzle. Only thing I can think of is some kind of short in the wiring that is letting the ECM think the signal from the centerstand switch is the signal from the auto/manual switch. Either that or a problem in the code in the ECM.
 

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Liam;

Basic electrical troubleshooting: check the wiring of any accessories mounted to the handlebar; both where they're tapped in for power and the routing inside the handlebar cover. Electrical faults often happen near the site of the most-recent repair/modification (the "Last thing you fixed" rule).

Experts:
Is the manual mode switch a momentary-on type, or is it a push-on/push-off?

Does the service manual have tolerance values for the manual mode switch or describe what values the ECM expects to see from it?
 

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The auto/manual switch is a spring loaded 2-pole switch like the horn button.

The controller toggles between auto and manual each time it receives a signal from this switch, but default at startup is auto.

Could somebody with a working scoot within reach please investigate what happens if you keep the auto/manual button depressed while turning the ignition on and starting the engine?
Last
 

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Ok, so much for my stray-voltage on the switch circuit theory. Sorry I overlooked your post, Erik.

Tested what happens if you hold the manual mode button down from before turning the key to ON and then starting it with the button still pressed: It stays in 1, but won't start. (Load-reducing relay kicks in, starter doesn't turn.)
 
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