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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Suzuki has sent out a media invitation which reveals that the company will unveil a new product on November 18, 2021 for the Indian market.

Several media outlets have suggested that will be the Burgman Street Electric Scooter.

Performance is expected to be comparable to a 125cc motorcycle with a top speed of 70 km/h. This will be Suzuki's first electric scooter. Probably limited to the Asian markets, but expect a big brother to hit other markets soon. You can read more about the Burgman Street Electric here.
 

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Let's hope Suzuki and others keep the price of their electric bikes at a somewhat affordable price so they're an attractive alternative to gas models. Harley Davidson's electric "live Wire" is about what I'd expect from them... over-priced at almost US $30,000. But you can get one that's not black (your choice of a putrid orange or green) for a mere $350 extra. Geez, what a deal. Sorry, but I've never seen the attraction to the whole 'black-and-orange community' s mentality. :confused:
 

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Manufacturers rely on early adopters to an extent. Common folk don't have the spare $$$$ to buy $20 or $30k motorcycles to save a few gallons of gas.
BTW, In 2020, in the US, plug-in things burned about 60% fossil fuels, 20% nuclear, 20% renewable. From www.eia.gov
 

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BTW, In 2020, in the US, plug-in things burned about 60% fossil fuels, 20% nuclear, 20% renewable.
Producing and distributing petrol also burns up electricity.

It took more electricity to make a gallon of fuel than to make my electric bike go the distance the gallon would have given me - so with petrol I’d have burnt twice the fossil fuel (Electric v electric + petrol)

Thats on very old amateur battery/motor technology, modern “manufacturer” technology will be even better.
 

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True, it takes energy to make and transport energy. There is also a loss at each conversion, to consider.
I'm just thinking that a lot of people believe electric cars to be a panacea. Free energy if you will. Somehow you still have to make the electricity though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Electric vehicles are a prime example of style over substance. Sure, on your end it's clean and happy, but behind the curtain (or on the other end of the transmission line) odds are they're burning coal to get you the electricity your vehicle needs. In a way, it's like your Prius burns coal except it's less efficient than a coal-fired Prius because the wires from the coal plant to your house take up at least 10% of the energy generated from the burning of coal to overcome the resistance in the transmission lines. Your electric Prius consumes more coal than an actual coal burning version would.

If that's not bad enough, an electric powered vehicle requires manufacturers to fly in exotic minerals from around the world since no one country has all the rare earth minerals needed to build one. Volvo claims an electric vehicle generates 70% more greenhouse gasses to produce than and ICE model would.

So how does it make sense to turn to electric vehicles if they generate more greenhouse gasses to manufacture and to operate? Besides the ceremonial price gouging of the early adopters, of course. In a nutshell, you've got to start somewhere.

Kawasaki has laid out their plans for two-wheeled global domination. They will release at least 10 new electric or hybrid bikes by 2025 (three years and seven weeks from now) with a goal of making all major models for developed markets battery electric vehicles (BEVs) or hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) by 2035. They're also working on hydrogen powered bikes. All the majors are going down this road though. Each tier (electric/hybrid/H2) has their own issues as far as engineering challenges, regulatory approvals, supply chains and public acceptance. Electrics are the easiest of the three which is why we're seeing them first.

Motorcycle manufacturers are looking ahead. The younger a buyer is the more likely they are to want an electric vehicle. There's also the issue of all the other manufacturers being on board. No one wants to be left behind or compared to Harley Davidson because they're the only other manufacturer who still only offers internal combustion bikes. Governments are also applying pressure encouraging manufacturers to go along with the carbon free options with either carrots (grants, low interest loans) or sticks (tariffs, outright bans).

Electric vehicles are an interim technology. Once competitive H2 or hybrid bikes are available no one's going to put up with a 12 hour charge time for a 90 km range. Like fax machines, they're serve their purpose for a limited time before being stored in a shed and thought of as an oddity when better technology is available.
 

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Up here in the Great NorthWet we get most of our power from Hydro-Electric dams. Seems that would be cleaner than Coal but it has its very bad side too. The HUGE reservoirs behind the dam stops fish migration, mostly Salmon. The Salmon are dying off and this causes the Orca pods to go hungry. Also those reservoirs allow the sun to heat the water and now much warmer water is entering the sea causing Kelp and Sea Weed die offs.

Hydrogen or Methane Fuel cells may be the answer but the feeding infrastructure needs to be UPGRADED BIG TIME!!!
If you buy a Fuel Cell for YOUR house, you get to pick the size of amperage to fit your needs. Just your house needs may be 150 AMP's but add a EV car/Truck/Motorcycle/Air Plane and now you may need 500 Amps and a bigger Fuel Cell and a bigger gas feed pipe. But there is now no power loss in the massive High Tension aerial feeder wires

The Earth has more Methane gas than any other fuel source but most of it is deep under water in huge pockets. The water pressure at depth keeps it compressed into a liquid state. Methane gas is just a few twisted molecules away from Hydrogen on one end and Natural gas on the other.

But we ALL, world wide, need to work on our infrastructure needs to make it better for the EARTH, not just easier for MAN.
 

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Isn't there some aspect like the law of diminishing returns that make electrics (over time) more carbon friendly than i.c.e like your car is a carbon demon for the first 4 years, neutral in year 5 and beginning to gain ground in year 6
 

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Isn't there some aspect like the law of diminishing returns that make electrics (over time) more carbon friendly than i.c.e....
Yes, and that is stated in the Volvo link @Lunatic Fringe posted
(plus ICE material is recycled, the gap will close once electrics are)


So how does it make sense to turn to electric vehicles if they generate more greenhouse gasses to manufacture and to operate?
Because, as your linked article explains, long term - emissions are less, and they create massively less emissions to operate.

In addition to what the article says, fuel tanker trucks and ships don’t need to be made/operated. Spilled fuel is astronomically more damaging than burned fuel (including drips during fill up) etc etc.

Electric vehicles are a prime example of style over substance. Sure, on your end it's clean and happy, but behind the curtain (or on the other end of the transmission line) odds are they're burning coal to get you the electricity your vehicle needs.
Last year only 1.8% of electric in U.K. came from coal. 0% in Norway....
(edit: I’m also pretty sure I read coal dropped below renewables in the US in 2020 or before)

no one's going to put up with a 12 hour charge time for a 90 km range.
True, I never spent more more than about 8 seconds (time it took to plug it in when I got home).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Last year only 1.8% of electric in U.K. came from coal. 0% in Norway....
(edit: I’m also pretty sure I read coal dropped below renewables in the US in 2020 or before)
Nope. Figures vary widely by state. West Virginia (where coal mining is is a huge industry) generates more than 93% of their electricity from burning coal.

As of Nov 2021 the US totals are:

Burning Coal 25%
Burning Gas 42%
Nuclear 17%
Hydro 5%
Solar 4%
Wind 6%
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
In a surprise move Suzuki India did not announce the Burgman Street Electric Scooter as anticipated. Instead, they launched the Suzuki Avenis. The Avenis is Suzuki's third 125cc scooter released in India. It will have the same engine as the Suzuki Burgman Street (BS6) and Suzuki Access (BS4).
 

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In a surprise move Suzuki India did not announce the Burgman Street Electric Scooter as anticipated. Instead, they launched the Suzuki Avenis. The Avenis is Suzuki's third 125cc scooter released in India. It will have the same engine as the Suzuki Burgman Street (BS6) and Suzuki Access (BS4).
This may be taken as a political comment but it is just an observation from the outside. A member on here knows more about the Caste system and how it effects the buying marketplace in India.

I am not trying to make a political statement, just an observation of a married couple, Indian friends. He was a Shudras (Common Labour) and she was a Dilits (Outcast and only worthy of cleaning toilets and such). He had to PAY to smuggle her out of India to South Africa so they could get married. Life in South Africa was still controlled somewhat by the Caste system so they immigrated to USA in 1959. Things in USA were not so peachy due to color of skin issues in the 1960's but they were free to live together.

India does not care to step out of the coal burning era. They have HUGE reserves of coal. With the HUGE over population in India and the Caste system keeping the masses (Shudra's) super poor, things will not change. The masses will buy the cheap bikes. The even less class of people, Dalits, buy and maintain the older bikes sold by the upper classes.
 

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According to US Energy Information Administration:

Utility-scale electricity production for 2020

Coal - 19.3%

Renewables - 19.8%
(plus an estimated 42 billion + kWh produced via photovoltaic and other small/scale local sub utility-scale)
 
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