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Thanks for that.

The legislators would love an excuse to get all motorcyclists off the roads and these ass-holes just give them ammunition.

However, and I quote form the article:

Safety advocates are quick to point out that motorcycling is no game, with fatalities nationwide having risen every year since 1997. The number jumped from 2,116 in 1997 to 3,661 in 2003. It's not clear how many of those deaths were related to extreme motorcycling, said Judy Stone of Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, a Washington-based lobbying group funded by the insurance industry.

During a three-hour drive home last weekend from Pennsylvania, she said she saw motorcyclists "going so fast, weaving in and out of traffic. It was so outrageous. They had to be going 80, 90, 100 miles per hour."

"It's totally irresponsible and very dangerous," she said. "Clearly, you've seen the results of that."


What the article did not say is:

It was so shocking apparently, that she had to put her coffee down, knocked the 4X4 out of cruise, nearly choked on her dunkin donut and missed an important call on her mobile phone.

:wink: :wink: :lol: :lol: :joker:
 

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NormanB wrote
It was so shocking apparently, that she had to put her coffee down, knocked the 4X4 out of cruise, nearly choked on her dunkin donut and missed an important call on her mobile phone.
You forgot making it imposable for her to read the paper while applying her lipstick .

It just never ceases to amaze me how this type of "stuff" never happens with auto drivers .Or if it does it's not news .
 

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Don't you just love when they pick and choose stats to make their case? They didn't mention the stat that more pedestrians are killed by vehicle accidents than motorcyclists are killed due to accidents Why don't they mention the number of motorcycle deaths caused by cages?
 

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Of course the fool who wrote the article made it sound like most motorcyclists ride that way most of the time.... Sensationalism is the name of that game. I strongly suspect that he/she never rode a motorcycle and had to deal with the dumb moves that cars drivers pull - which definitely account for way more motorcyclist deaths than extreme riding does. Out of the thousands of motorcycles I've seen on the road this season, I've seen exactly two riders doing the wheelie & extreme riding thing.

The article is garbage, but articles like that DO bias folks who don't ride against ALL motorcyclists. The other disservice to us is done by the small percentage of riders who do ride that way on public roads. Those are the ones who grab attention - the rest of us are invisible.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Or not even bother to show how the increase in licensed riders and or registered bikes over the same period might account for an increase in fatalities
 

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Well obviously I can only speak for this side of the pond, but the news ain't good.

The UK stats for motorcycling KSI (Killed and seriously injured) is rising year on year, even when normalised for new registrations.

The analysis also shows it is not the stereo-typical loony teenage 'tear arsing around' that figures so large (although they do have accidents of course), but rather the 'born-again' biker in the age group 35-55.

The typical terminal accident is also on bends with no other vehicle involved, often with no skid marks, usually an indication of running out of room after entering a bend too fast for either the road or the skill level of the rider or both.

I have simplified the position to reduce the boredom factor of this post.

I also fit into the 'born-again biker' label. :cry:
 

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Ok, I'll climb out on a limb here amongst the seniors. Some of us here (most?), have been riding motorcycles a LONG time. Many years of experience equals a far lesser probability of mishap. It matters little if you are a 16 y.o. newb or a 46 y.o. greenhorn, chances are you're going down. Just like most of us did at 10 or 14 or 16 or whatever. I think that many midlifers are not prepared for motorcycling or realistic about the potential dangers and, consequently, have no business on two motorized wheels.




Peace.
 

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One advantage held by newcomers to riding these days is the MSF courses. They get a chance to learn up front some of the stuff we old-timers had to learn the hard way. And they get to ride bikes with better handling and better brakes than we had when we started.

But there is a lot to be said for experience. The catch is that to get the experience, you've got to ride. I think that the way to go is to ride as frequently as possible during the riding season. The folks who only ride occasionally never really develop the automatic reflexes and habits that are necessary for safe riding. And if you live where the snow flies in the Winter, take it easy during those first few Spring rides. The skills can rust a bit during the Winter layover.
 

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pauljo said:
One advantage held by newcomers to riding these days is the MSF courses. They get a chance to learn up front some of the stuff we old-timers had to learn the hard way. And they get to ride bikes with better handling and better brakes than we had when we started.
A huge disadvantage, though, is that there are very few interesting "learner bikes" at 350cc or lower. Most of us oldsters learned to ride on bikes with about a tenth of the power than the bikes that are pushed on the newbies today. :(

Steve
 

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wasions said:
A huge disadvantage, though, is that there are very few interesting "learner bikes" at 350cc or lower.
That's life in the USA I guess. If the manufacturer's did provide 250cc & 350cc street bikes, most newbies would pass them by, stating that they would probably "outgrow" them too quickly. There have been several attempts along the way. Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki all tried providing 250cc street bikes in the eighties, but they didn't draw too much sales interest. Then Kawasaki had that Ninja 250cc - but it wasn't really a good beginner bike. It would rev about 10,000 rpm, and you had to get the engine really spinning to produce power - not what a beginner needs.

Now the real reason we bought those small Japanese 2 strokes in the sixties was because they would kick butt on the traditional bigger displacement British and American motorcycles up to 60 mph or so. Very fast acceleration for their time. And they were cheap enough for us to afford. The 250cc Suzuki X6 Hustler was the king. You bought it to embarrass Triumphs and Nortons and Harleys in street drag races. And with the fast acceleration you got drum brakes and marginal suspensions and tires. :shock: They were in no way a better learning machine than a Burgman 400.

I was there - and that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :wink:
 

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It's shocking!

One of those unbelted Explorer or Surburban drivers could be tossed out of their vehicle and injure a motorcyclist.
 

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I have to agree with Paul. Back in 1966, my first bike was a Suzuki 80, then a Honda Bently 150 and a Honda 350 (all great bikes). I lived in Calgary and took my drivers exam in the midst of raging winter blizzard. I learned to ride small lightweight bikes 365 days a year in all kinds of weather and road conditions. Those early lessons have stayed with me all these 38 years of motorcycling.

Now on the other hand, my son bought a 600 crotch rocket (against my protests) last year and destroyed two of them in a 45 day period, breaking his leg the second time. He had the Motorcycle Safety Course, but he had way too much horsepower and not enough real-life experience. He paid the price for not starting small and progressing. He's very fortunate that he got off so light. I'm hoping he learned his lesson, but somehow I doubt it. Too much money and not enough common sense!
 

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I was told by a motorcycle salesman that Europe makes new riders start with the lower bikes for a two year period. I don't know if it is true or not, but it sounds like a good idea to me. The rice rockets are just way to fast for most riders, especially a new one and a young one at that, since us old folks can't bend over that far anymore.

I was at a dealership waiting for the service dept and a kid bought a rice rocket and he rode it off the lot and within seconds he had a wreck. They sent a truck down the road to get it. To much speed, to much youth, to much inexperience and to much testosterone (in most cases - there are some girls too.)
 

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Mary

Well I ain't going to speak for the rest of Europe - just this eensy weensy bit of it. :cry:

Yes - in UK there are restiction in terms of power, licensing, testing and age of the rider.

We have the equivalent of MSF ( Compulsory Basic Training) but to be honest it is no real preparation for open road high power stuff - is it?

The real rub is that if the rider is over 21 years of age ( I just scrape in there :wink: ) AND passes a full motorcycle test there is then no restriction on power. So the born again biker who maybe last rode a single cylinder 650 - 25 years ago, now jumps on a Hayabusa or the like!
 

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NormanB said:
So the born again biker who maybe last rode a single cylinder 650 - 25 years ago, now jumps on a Hayabusa or the like!
My guess is that the "born again biker" (who has a little age on him/her) is more likely to be cautious with the new bike than younger riders who are 'invincible' ... at least in their own minds. ;)
 

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billmeek said:
NormanB said:
So the born again biker who maybe last rode a single cylinder 650 - 25 years ago, now jumps on a Hayabusa or the like!
My guess is that the "born again biker" (who has a little age on him/her) is more likely to be cautious with the new bike than younger riders who are 'invincible' ... at least in their own minds. ;)
It's funny the wording you use. My forum name on my local area forum is rebornrider. I returned to the 2 wheel world after a short hiatus (not 25 years) and made my return on an 85 RZ350. Those bikes were a great machine. I was still cautious as you suggest and the old skills I had from previous racing experience and street experience came back rather quickly. However I am quite comfortable now doing the speed limit to about 20 kms over. Vary rarely do I feel the need to go faster anymore.
 

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Oh that so true Bill, my son does feel invincible. As a professional firefighter with 30 years service, I have been to a lot of motorcycle accidents and it's never a pretty sight. Most of them have been young kids on those crotch rockets who have gotten way beyond their skill level in a blink of an eye.

While I have to admit that a Honda CBR 600 is blast to ride, it really belongs on the race track, not the city streets and certainly not inexperienced hands. It's a receipe for disaster!
 

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It had been about 16 years since I had ridden a motorcycle. Even though I could ride a bike, I still went and took the MSF Basic Rider Course. I feel that I am a MUCH safer rider than I was with the last bike I had.
 
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