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Discussion Starter #1
I go to start the burger yesterday morning and all I get is a lot of popping and banging then a reluctant struggle into some very rough running. After about 30 secs of this it cuts out. I start it again with some difficulty and more in hope than anything else set off. Well, thankfully after about 200 metres the burgman kicks into life and is back to normal for the rest of the day with no apparent problem.

In the evening I had a look at the spark plugs and both caps had popped off. They were just loosely hanging on the ends of the plugs.

I had replaced the plugs as advised in the manual at the second major service and remember thinking then that one of the caps was hanging loose but couldn't be sure - you know how it is when you're doing something for the first time. But I am sure that I pushed the caps fully home on the replacement plugs.

The point is that the burger will seem to run ok with the loose caps, maybe the only symptoms are occassional misfiring and hesitancy on slower running, but always with the possibility of cutting out in more critical situations - so... it might be a good idea to check those caps from time to time.

Anyone else seen the same thing? It might be the Normsthename has had the same problem - see his post "325cc Burgman..." - I starting this as a new post since it is a proven issue.

I took off one of the caps and tried various ways of fitting it to a spare plug. The cap has the normal bar grip and seems to grip onto the end of the plug ok, maybe there is something about the way the burger engine vibrates that gradually dislodges it. If anyone knows a sure way of making the cap stick I would be pleased to know.

Robg
 

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I go to start the burger yesterday morning and all I get is a lot of popping and banging then a reluctant struggle into some very rough running. After about 30 secs of this it cuts out. I start it again with some difficulty and more in hope than anything else set off. Well, thankfully after about 200 metres the burgman kicks into life and is back to normal for the rest of the day with no apparent problem.

In the evening I had a look at the spark plugs and both caps had popped off. They were just loosely hanging on the ends of the plugs.

Anyone else seen the same thing? It might be the Normsthename has had the same problem - see his post "325cc Burgman..."
Hey Robg

Sounds pretty much like my 'Fault'!
I had the same thing happen again yesterday, and now, butter won't melt in it's Injectors! (Running fine again)
I have also had an ocasional misfire when coming out of corners, it misfires and clears, and then doe'snt do it for another week, did you suffer this as well?

How difficult is it to check the Plug Caps, I know the radiator has to be moved, but what is actually involved.

How long does it take to get to them?

Thanks in advance

Andy
 

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Discussion Starter #4
How to access plugs

Hi Andy,

Firstly apologies for a delayed reply - the usual trouble with that so-called operating system from Mr Gates...

Yes, it does sound like you have the loose plugs leads syndrome - your symptoms pretty much match my own. I found the rough running occurred more frequently after heavy braking - no doubt because the leads moved forward slightly.

Getting access to the plug leads is one of things that is straightforward... after you have done it once or twice - anyway the recipe is:

1. Remove your watch - access is restricted!
2. Remove the plastic radiator cover - two screws either side of the radiator (simple), two pop connectors at the top (pull on the centre protrusion first (hard on the finger tips). Push the cover up a bit then down & out to the side.
3. Remove the bolt on the right side of the radiator (simple). Do not lose the mount spacer (also easy to do).
4. Turn the handle bars to left lock. Swing the radiator forward on its hinge as far as it will go.
5. Remove the plastic protector panel down the right side of the radiator - push forward the two spring clips and pull it away (won't come all the way off because of attached leads).
6. Lying flat on the cold damp ground & using a torch you will be able to see the plug caps - but only the ends, the cap body is recessed into the cylinder heads.
7. This is the difficult bit - you can get your hands to the plug caps - just - but only by coming in from the side. Now you must grip with your finger tips and push as hard as you can to force the plug caps home. Rotating the caps a bit whilst you do so and giving short sharp pushes helps. You should hear a few clicks as the grip bar slips over the plug screw threads. If your hands are too large, call your wife and threaten severe chastisement until she does it (it is your right after all) but be prepared for mysterious nettles in your underpants.

The immediate improvement is worth the hassle...

Cheers,

Robg
 

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Thanks Robg for taking the time and trouble to list the procedure, I will look into it, as soon the weather allows!
You could be right, when I get the misfire, it is always after braking hard for a corner, and accelerating out it misfires, sometimes....

Will let you know what I find.........

Thanks again

Andy
 

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spark plug alert

a word to the wise about spark plug caps or (boots), & the misfiring situations mentioned. it seems the consencus here is that if the cap was loose,& a misfire developed ,then putting the cap back on tight is the remedy? often times what happens is that the cap or boot which is supposed to act as an insulator, becomes a conductor. this happens when 30,000 volts are looking for the path of least resistance from the inside top of the cap to ground. under normal conditions the electricity travels from the cap to the top of the plug,down the center electrode & jumps to ground (the side electrode) as a spark, at the bottom of the plug in the engines combustion chamber. when the cap is loose, the path the electricity takes, is not going to go as designed. unfortunately the electricity has to find a new route to ground that entails jumping from the inside top of the cap down the inside of the cap,to a point where it can jump again to ground ,via path of least resistance. this running down the inside of the cap, burns a path called a carbon track. the problem is that the cap that is supposed to be an insulator, now has a pathway of carbon burned into it that conducts. cleaning the inside will not get rid of carbon tracks,the only solution is to replace the cap with a new one. if you put the carbon tracked cap back on it is likely to run ok under light load when combustion pressure is not great. but under heavy load (quick acceleration, going up a steep hill,esp 2 up,etc.) or in rainy or high humidity conditions,a misfire condition is likely to occur. these conditions make for the path of least resistance to be down the carbon track to the bottom of the cap,& then jump to the metal shell of the plug, just below the porcelan section on the outside of the plug. this is why you may have found your loose cap,put it on tight, but still get a misfire. if you have this situation,try replacing the caps. rich b
 

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plug caps

I never cease to be amazed at the expertise or the members of this forum :shock:

It's very educational browsing around here.
 

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Finally took the scooter in today for the front brakes (Binding slightly)
Last night I had the '325cc single' again, fantastic I thought, taking it in to the shop today with the fault!!! :)
Got up this morning, and the scoot is running like a dream again... :(
So I take the scoot into the shop and I tell the mechanic about the ' loose plug leads syndrome' and he says he will take a look.
Go to pick the bike up ,and the mechanic was out on a call. The shop owner says he found the left hand plug Cap loose!!!!! :)
Great I think, but one thing is niggling me, my scoot is dirty at the moment, and it does not look like the plastic has been removed etc.
Is there a way to get at the plug caps without stripping it down???
It did seem to be running well tonight, and a corner that it always misfires at, went around like a dream, no misfire......

Andy
 

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Andy it is possible to access the plugs without removing the body panels. The only panel that needs removing is the black panel that is in front of the rad. The rad is on a hinge and with the removal of one bolt the rad will swing enough out of the way to actually change the plugs. It's very tight but can be done. See this pic of a Plug Change
 

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Spark Plugs

You can also access the plug wires/coil to see if it is properly in place by removing the service cover and pulling the rubber side cover back.
 

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You can also access the plug wires/coil to see if it is properly in place by removing the service cover and pulling the rubber side cover back.
Where is the service cover?, I might need to get to them again in the future.........

Andy
 

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O.K
Had the Scoot running like a dream since it was fixed, then the other day, back to the misfire, exactly the same as before :(
So this Easter holiday, I removed the service cover, and do you know, the left hand plug cap was loose!
It is very difficult to get at the plugcap, but I pushed it on as hard as I could. It does not seem to 'lock' in place and I think it could easily come loose again :(
I think it will have to go back in to have it looked at :(
Wonder how many others are affected....

Andy
 

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Don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree here or not, but...

In the old days, you could reach inside the spark plug boot with a pair of needle nose pliers, and pinch the plug clamp closed so that it would grip the plug tighter.

I've done it recently with my lawn mower.

Is this possible with the burg plug caps?
If so, it might fix the problem.
 

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I have seen this problem of the boots coming loose on atv's and the trick was to apply a little dielectric grease to the plug tip and a little inside the boot before pushing it on. This solved the problem by lubricatiio which let the plug boot seat itself all the way down in a locked position. Sometimes and especially in tight places where proper force cannot be used the cap does not seat itself entirely. Using the grease make it so much easier and protects from oxidation/corrosion at the same time. :wink:
 

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I am a little baffled. Why are a few people having this problem repeatedly, and others are not having it at all? I have close to 14,000 miles on my 650 and have not had the problem. My plugs have been changed once by the dealer at a normal service interval. I suspect that there is a "root cause" that we are missing. A batch of defective caps? Improper initial installation on some machines causing damage to the grip of the cap on the plugs? There has to be some basic reason why the caps do not want to stay seated on certain scooters. If we could understand that, it should be easy to see how to fix it permanently. Just a thought...
 

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Perhaps it is as snowride suggested.
The caps need a little lubrication to seat properly.

From what I understand, it is an awkward place to apply any force to, so maybe the caps are not being seated properly in some cases due to that.

Worth looking into. :idea:
 

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If you were to replace your vehicle's sparkplug wires, you go to the parts store and purchase a set. The jumble of wires comes in a box, and in that box is also included a little squeezy thingy of dialectric grease. Directions tell you to squirt some in each boot before placing the new boot onto your plugs.

Part of the reason is as SnowRide suggested: lubrication.

But, another purpose for the grease is to provide a better contact to the sparkplug thus better efficiency at delivering the power to the plug.

And, yes, it helps with corrosion and stuff....... 8)

There are boot pullers on the market to assist in the removal of spark plug boots from difficult places. It could also be warranted here to have a spark plug installation assister. hmmm
 

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I always use the dialectric grease on my spark plug boots on all my vehicles. It sure has helped me. I've never found a downside to using the stuff. 8) It definitely makes it easier to seat the cap onto the spark plug more securely.
 
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