[Kot]

Hi, I need an advises from specialists regarding to immobilizer removing on my Burgman 650, k5, ABS.

So, my concrete questions are:


Which parts I have to replace for removing immoblizer and have working scooter? Is it just EBU (black box under meter panel)? What about backward compatibility? Do I need to replace whole electrical cables as well? What else? Maybe speedometer panel too (I heard this assumption)?


Unfortunately we have no official Suzuki dealer in our country, so I have to perform almost all repairs without qualified assistance. Hope I'll find qualified (or experienced) specialists in this site.

I'm not aware that simply repairing of the immo will fix the issue - it is reproduced 2nd time on that scooter. It will be very bad if I'll encounter with it somewhere in 3000 km from home. So I'm thinking about fully removing this "useful" functional.

Thank you in advance for all knowledge!

 

[MJR]

Based on my experience with immobilizer systems on Chrysler vehicles and looking at the wiring diagram I would say removing the Immobilizer Module (appears to be around where you put the key in/shutter) and replacing the Engine Controller with one that does not have the Immobilizer.

Keep in mind in this country we do not have the Immobilizer system.

In Chrysler's systems the ECM learns that it has an Immobilizer from the Immobilizer Module and once it has been learned it can't be undone afterall what is the point off a security system that can be easily bypassed.

What exactly is the problem you are having? In most cases it's more cost effective to fix the issue than removing an integrated system.

 

[peelbrow]

[QUOTE What exactly is the problem you are having? In most cases it's more cost effective to fix the issue than removing an integrated system.[/QUOTE]

I agree. More information is needed.

 

[Kot]

My problem was started with C42 error. Early morning after night rain I've started an engine without any problem, delivered my daughter to a kindergarten, then returned back to the scooter... and can't start it again, C42 appears.

Whole day I've tried to check all connectors, to dry Immobilizer module... All what I've obtained (after drying immo and replugging EBU module) is disappearing FI, but key bulb still blinking, engine doesn't start. I'm not sure that it is normal. Because C42 should be appeared when you disconnected immo module (I've verified it on another 650), in my case just red key blinked, no other reaction.

Not sure that explanation above will help you to understanding anything. But anyway...

P.S. Do you know anything about meter panel and EBU backward compatibility? I'm driving in direction to buy new electrical cable and EBU without immo, but afraid that it can force me to buy new meter panel as well... Do you know anything about it?

 

[MJR]

My problem was started with C42 error. Early morning after night rain I've started an engine without any problem, delivered my daughter to a kindergarten, then returned back to the scooter... and can't start it again, C42 appears.

Whole day I've tried to check all connectors, to dry Immobilizer module... All what I've obtained (after drying immo and replugging EBU module) is disappearing FI, but key bulb still blinking, engine doesn't start. I'm not sure that it is normal. Because C42 should be appeared when you disconnected immo module (I've verified it on another 650), in my case just red key blinked, no other reaction.

Not sure that explanation above will help you to understanding anything. But anyway...

P.S. Do you know anything about meter panel and EBU backward compatibility? I'm driving in direction to buy new electrical cable and EBU without immo, but afraid that it can force me to buy new meter panel as well... Do you know anything about it?

Looking in my service manual a code C42 isn't for the immobilizer but that the ECM is not seeing the proper signal from the ignition switch. My '09 intermittently is doing the same thing and I have to turn it off/on a few times before it will show the odometer and start. Otherwise it just cranks but won't start. I've been meaning to pull it apart and see if I can clean/grease it since Suzuki only sells it with the lock assembly.

The service manual doesn't really go into much detail on the immobilizer system operation. My guess is the cluster immobilizer light is controlled by the ECM and if the ECM doesn't support it the light shouldn't matter/work.

That all said I think the ignition switch is your problem, maybe a few others on here will share their thoughts.

 

[Kot]

I have just only old manual for K3, it says that C42 is really means ignition switch, but in brackets added "anti-thief".

Anyway, currently I have no FI, but blinking red key and impossible to start engine.

 

[Kot]

P.S. I've checked it on identical AN650: disconnected aerial and got C42 immediately. So this issue really should be related to problems with immobilizer antenna block. At the least in the beginning, currently I've afraid that something was broken together...

 

[peelbrow]

Don't rush off on a wild-goose chase. Check out the ignition switch first and clean up the contacts. Then let us know the result.

 

[Kot]

"ignition switch" -- you mean ignition connector at the bottom of key mechanism pipe (I don't know how to call it)? I didn't cleaned it with WD40, but removed-inserted and see no effect.

 

[peelbrow]

Sorry, I meant the CUT-OUT switch. there have been problems with it in the past. Take it apart and clean up the contacts. btw what year and K number is your bike?

 

[Kot]

Cut-off switch is red switch at the right on handlebar? It looks working, when I switch it off "CHECK" label is appeared, switch on -- "check" is disappeared, but red key starts blinking.

 

[peelbrow]

Cut-off switch is red switch at the right on handlebar? It looks working, when I switch it off "CHECK" label is appeared, switch on -- "check" is disappeared, but red key starts blinking.

Okay, that seems normal. I have attached part of the circuit diagram and you will notice the wires for the alarm are all black to fool thieves. It is shown as a plug, and it may help you in your search for the fault.

From left to right (1 to 5) as shown the wires terminate as follows: (1) goes to FUSE 3, (2) to the ECM, (3) goes to the FUEL-PUMP RELAY, (4) goes to the ENGINE STOP SWITCH, (5) goes to BATTERY NEGATIVE.

If you need ALL the circuit diagram, just ask and I will send it.

 

[Kot]

Maybe you have circuit diagram for K5 with immo? Or even full manual in pdf? (hope I'm not too naive )

 

[peelbrow]

No problem. See attached. (I have scanned the second half twice in case it is not very clear. ) I will send it to you via PDF when I find out how to do it!Please send me your email address. Mine is: [email protected]

 

[Kot]

Not sure where is immobilizer antenna on that diagrams.

 

[ErikDK]

If there's anywhere in the world, where knowledge about disabling immobilizers is common, I'd say the former eastern block - Warsaw Pact countries.

Heute Abend gestohlen - Morgen schon in Polen.

Prejudice aside, here's what the manual says:

The immobilizer, an anti-theft system, is installed as a standard equipment.
•The immobilizer verifies that the key ID agrees with ECM ID by means of radio communication through the immobilizer antenna.
When the ID agreement is verified, the system makes the engine ready to start.

OPERATION: When the ignition switch is turned ON with the engine stop switch in ON and the side stand in up position, the immobi-antenna and ECM are powered ON. The ECM transmits a signal to the transponder through the immobi-antenna in order to make comparison between the key ID and ECM ID. With the signal received, the transponder transmits the key ID signal to ECM so that ECM can make com-parison with its own ID, and if it matches, the engine is made ready to start.

Also, when the ignition switch is turned ON, the indicator light flashes as many as the number of IDs registered in ECM. Thereafter, if the IDs are in agreement, the indicator light turns on for two seconds to notify of completion in successful communication.
If the indicator light flashes fast, it notifies of communication error or disagreement of ID.NOTE:If the indicator light flashes fast, turn the ignition switch OFF then ON to make judgment again as there is possible misjudg-ment due to environmental radio interference.

 

[ErikDK]

To disable the IMMO, you need someone who can reflash the ECM.

 

[ErikDK]

Not sure where is immobilizer antenna on that diagrams.

It's circled in with RED

Как отключить иммобилайзер на ВАЗ?

 

[MJR]

From what I am reading the immobilizer wasn't available until 2005 (K5) so the reference in the K3 manual means the anti-theft feature built into the ignition switch itself. The switch has a resistor built into one of the switched circuits and if the ECM doesn't see this resistance (most likely a certain voltage) when the key is turned on it won't allow the bike to start. This prevents someone from ripping the wires out, twisting them together, and starting the bike.

Since they added the immobilizer it maybe that it can also trigger that code but that doesn't mean that is your problem. When I get to work I can look in better detail and post more. Actually look above at what ErikDK posted from the service manual and use it to compare what the immobilizer light on the dash is telling you (how is it flashing when the bike won't start).

Do you have anything else on a key chain with the bike keys?

If you have anything else on a key chain in close proximity to the ignition lock cylinder with a transponder (car/truck key, the bikes extra key, security transponder, Mobil Speed Pass, etc) in it this can confuse the system and cause the bike not to start. With these systems its best not to have anything else together with the key.

 

[Kot]

It's circled in with RED

In my case there are 4 colored wires to immobilizer antenna. Also I have a stub with 4 black wires (assumed it purposed for alarm plugin), but there are 4 wires, not 5.