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OK , this is a first time post to this site and perhaps I am not in the right section but what the heck here goes: I currently have an old (79) Gold wing and am considering buying a new bike next year. I have never had a "scooter" but I am intrigued by the Bergman. I dont know if both the 400 and the 650 are available in Canada. I ride usually two up max approx 320lbs and I do lots of short rides in and around town as well as lots of 50 to 60 km jaunts. I also like to do some touring say 1000 to 1500 kms on weekends and I like to ride anywhere between 90 and 120kms per hour. My question is how would you compare the old goldwing to the new Bergman and two how is the Bergman for power when riding two up at highway speeds. Does it have enough umph to pull out and pass? does it have enough power to ride two up plus baggage for a weekend. Would it be o.k for a week long touring stint two up at highway speeds? A little bit of background is I am 5-4 and so is my better half and I am not a "biker" but someone who enjoys riding for the sake of riding. I am curious to find out what the experience is like compared to a "regular motorcycle. Thanks a lot for your input. :?:
 

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gilles,

Welcome to the forum! The Burgman 650 will do all the things you mentioned with ease. I've put 7500 miles on mine since last September, some of it 2up, and I've done one 4 day tour this year so far. I know we have Burgman 650 owners in Canada.

I'll leave feedback on the 400 to the experts (the folks who own them), because I have never ridden one.
 

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At 5' 4'', your feet will touch the ground better on a 400. I'm a little taller
and my feet just make flat when standing still. Having your shoes out flat
is a safer way. Finding one shoe holding everything up on the toe while the
other shoe almost sits flat on the ground can set up a scenario where
you can lose the bike while attempting to hold still on a slope.

The AN400 is scaled down in overall size compared to the 650, is 120 lbs.
lighter and is greater than $1,000 cheaper to buy and the 400 is cheaper to
insure and license.
Here in Arizona, yearly vehicle registration fees are based on the value of the vehicle.

Plenty of 400 Burgman riders install extra compartments to stow more stuff
but with a savings of more than $1,000 to purchase, you can buy new clothes while
you travel then mail them back to yourself just before you return.
 

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I can't comment on the 400, as I've never ridden one, but I love my 650. I've had it for two weeks now, and I've already ridden a two day, 600 mile (960km) trip across the Cascade Mountains (via Stevens Pass) and back, and a day long, 330 mile (528km) trip to the Olympic Mountains (Hurricane Ridge in Olympic National Park).

I rode scooters back in the '80s but this is a whole new ballgame (see my post How fast will it go in this forum). Plenty of power for overtaking and passing, even going up hill with two aboard.

The 650 weighs 607 pounds with a full tank of fuel, compared to about 800 pounds for a fulldress Gold Wing, so if you've handled the GW comfortably the Burgman 650 should be a walk in the park. Maximum Gross Weight is 999 pounds, so carrying capacity with full fuel is 392 pounds of rider, passenger, and cargo.

I don't know about your GW, but the current model has a seat height of 29.1 inches, compared to 29.5 inches on the AN650K, so the big Burgman is less than half an inch higher. I don't know if that would be important for you. I'm 6' 5" so I can't really relate, but 4/10ths of an inch seems irrelevant. (The Burgman 400 seat height is 27.4 inches.)

The 650's tires are large for a scooter, 15" in front and 14" in the rear (the 400 has 13 inchers front and back). While not as large as the GW's, they give me a confident feel on the road -- much more so than my old scooters did (Honda Elite 125 and 250).

The Burgman 650 has some really great features that make it a good bike both around town and on a road trip. The continuously variable automatic transmission means the bike will accellerate briskly from a stop even with a heavy load, then run smoothly without any noticable shifts all the way up to freeway speed. At any combination of speed and load it is always in its optimum RPM range.

Having both brakes on the handlebars (no clutch, so rear brake goes on the left bar) can take some getting used to, but is really nice once you get used to it. The absence of a clutch, combined with the CVT, means no worry about rollback or stalling when starting out on a hill, and with both brakes in your hands both feet are free for holding up the bike.

Unless you add an aftermarket trunk the Burgman doesn't have the storage space of a Gold Wing, but 56 liters in the trunk is more than most motorcycles and scooters offer. It's enough to hold two fullface helmets and a couple of light windbreakers, or more baggage if you use the helmet hanger instead of putting your helmets in the trunk.

The best advice I can give, if you're really serious about getting a scooter, is to go to a dealer and look at what's available. Ask for a test ride if the dealer has a demo model. If the 650 is comfortable for you to ride around the block a few times, then I think you'll find it to be just what you're looking for.

In the mean time, click here for official specs on the 650: http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/AN650K4/Specs/Default.aspx

A menu to other models is also there.

HTH.
 

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WELCOME
I HAVE DRIVEN MOTORCYCLES FOR OVER 40 YRS
AND BOUGHT A 650 BURGMAN -THIS SPRING-04-WHICH I NOW HAVE OVER 1600 MILES ON. IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT RIDE AND I AM
NOT LOOKING BACK. 1300 MILES WITH TWO UP - WE LOVE IT AND SO WILL YOU.
GOOD LUCK ON YOUR DECISION
L-SKULSKI FROM - OHIO

500 TRI
650 BSA
500 KAW
650 KAW
900 KAW
1000 KAW
650 BURGMAN
 

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gilles,
I'm with them. I've had mine for three months today, and turned over 6100 miles this morning on my way home from work. Many 300+ miles days. My wife is 5'2" and the Burgman (650 - we haven't ridden the 400 either) is the only bike she's ever been comfortable riding alone on. Yes, she tip-toes at stops, but like she says, "It balances so easy at a standstill, and besides, it's for going, not stopping." :wink:
 

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I to have a 650, and find it has plenty of power.

I used to ride dirtbikes, as well as road bikes years ago. After a 20+ absence from motorcycles, and a back not as good as it used to be, I got back in it with a Burgman 400 (didn't know how the wife would react). Good news, she missed it too, so in 3,000 miles we traded for the 650. The ride was better, and the power is good for the expressway at 2-up riding.

What I miss is a clutch for nuetral, I like the automatic trans. but still miss coasting, (Sounds Odd but true)

A gas tank on ocassion to lean my knees and leg on.

Maybe I should own 2 machines

But only being able to own one I'll take the Burgman 650

Excellent all rounder
 

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My last bike was the Yamaha Venture Royal 1300. It was fully loaded with all the toys. I bought the 650 Burgman because I travel mainly in the city with a few road trips of 200km. I love the Burgman, handles well in both the city and highway. Will easily handle two up at 120km. But I do miss the intercom system, the CB, the am/fm cassette, cruise control and the big windshield that total protected me from the wind. At 6'3" I find my head in the wind stream and that is with the bigger OEM windshield. My wife misses the big back rest, arm rests and the intercomm system. I imagine with your height the stock windshield will suffice but do get either the optional passenger backrest on the 650 or the Givi top box with back rest or your wife will not be happy.
 

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Should I buy?

Hi Gilles
Whether its the 400 or 650, I can't see you regretting it. But, these things are personal, so try and get a test drive first.
We moved up from a Honda 250 scooter to the B650, which has just had its first birthday!! Most of our riding is 2 up, 370 lbs. Top box (with back rest) and underseat have been sufficient storage and fine for 5 days from Peterborough England to Rheims France, and it holds freeway speed (70mph) without any problem, with revs and speed in reserve. Just short of 4000 miles in the year, and all going smoothly - just check the centre stand bolt, there is a forum thread, ours is one that fell out - I think maybe they forgot to include it on the check list for doing the torque tightening, as it has occurred a bit more often than chance says it should. We are very happy with out choice and even go shopping in the next town to gives us a run. You can't believe what you can fit in the underseat and box.
Regards
 

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I would say it will do everything you want it to do - except pass with ease. Yes it will pass vehicles but for me I didn't think it had the power I would have like to pass with ease. It'll pass with ease if you will NEVER get caught in a tight situation - but trust me if you ever needed to punch it to get out of a situation - I honestly don't think this machine would do that.

I've tried all the settings, automatic, manual and power at varying speeds up to 130 km/hr. I will say it does have a lot of pep down low which is great for the city but not the highway.

I know a lot won't agree with me on hear but I'm being totally honest.
 

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I partially agree (and disagree) with Silver on the passing issue. Geez, I sound like a politician... But here is why:

The 650 will pass fine - I do it a lot. But you have to allow more room than you would with a motorcycle that has twice the horsepower. And you have to realize that at about 90 mph actual (100 mph indicated) the Burgman is all done with anything that could reasonably be called acceleration. Yes it will creep up to 100+ actual mph, but its going to take a LOT of road to do it. So initiating a pass at 55 or 60 mph is pretty reasonable, but if you initiate a pass at 70 or 75, you better have some substancial clear road ahead. This is of course critical on a 2 lane highway - on the interstate there is much more leeway, because there isn't the prospect of oncoming traffic in your passing lane.

I ride country 2 lanes a lot in Nebraska & Iowa where the speed limit is 55 or 60 mph, and folks tend to drive 10 mph over that. And there are big trucks that run those roads too. I do encounter passing opportunities that I would take with my V-Strom - a motorcycle that will accellerate very strongly right up to it's electronically enforced top speed of 135 mph - but that I decline on the Burgman 650 as too risky. But a mile or two further on there is usually a safe opportunity.

Bottom line: It is the rider's responsibility to know the limitations of his machine and to appropriately analyse the potential risk of a pass. By doing so, "tight" situations can be avoided.
 

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When I owned a B650 for almost a year, I tinkered with the passing issue
and can identify with you guys about this.

The only difference I noted that had the greatest improvement was
increased gasoline octane. Try a tank of 87 or even 89 and instantaneous
acceleration is not all that good. Put 91, 92 or better octane in
and accelerating has a "faster door" to it.

After becoming confident with handling the bike, I began
pre-accelerating just before the time was right to swing out to pass.
The 1 second delay had already passed by the time I was beginning to
pass, and alot faster this way. It is necessary though to place the Burgman
at a much farther distance from a car in front in order to have ample runway.
You'll find that with a greater distance you'll see better
and have more room to abort if something pops up, and it almost always does.

If I had more time with the 650, I would have cleaned the air filter before
concluding too much about octane.
Tell me, if anyone notices acceleration performance differences with tire
pressures passed the single rider figure given in the owners manual.
 

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Stormsteed said:
ajwood said:
After becoming confident with handling the bike, I began
pre-accelerating just before the time was right to swing out to pass.
It sounds like passing on the Burgman has to be approached much like passing while driving a 4-cylinder car. It can do it, but it lags a bit and needs a longer runway before it takes off.
Quite honestly I've never had any problems passing. Maybe it's due to the fact that the Posted speed limits up here are slower. Any ways IMHO it's not how fast you get there but how you get there, and a nice cruise on the Burgman is the best way.
 

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Stormsteed said:
It sounds like passing on the Burgman has to be approached much like passing while driving a 4-cylinder car. It can do it, but it lags a bit and needs a longer runway before it takes off.
In concept, that is true.

But, passing on the Burgman 650 is quite a lot snappier than with a 4 cyclinder car. Snappier than my V-6 24 valve Ford Tauruses - as long as the pass does not entail the need for a terminal speed in excess of 100 mph (indicated), and the majority of passes I make do not involve that.

You have to keep this in context. The comparisons were to sport motorcycles in the 600cc and higher category. They are fast. My 1000cc V-Strom is faster than a Corvette until speeds get somewhere in in excess of 100 mph. But my 1000cc V-Strom is pitifully slow, compared to a Suzuki Hayabusa or a Kawasaki ZX-10 - there are no cars that you will ever drive that are faster than those last two motorcycles (there are a couple of very exotic sports cars in the $400,000 and higher category that come close).

So for someone that as explored the passing capabilities of a good high performance motorcycle the AN650 seems to run out of acceleration way too early. But if you compare it to the existing Super Scooters, it has the best passing capability of any of them. And if you tend to stay anywhere near legal speed limits in most parts of the USA, you will be quite satisfied with its passing prowess.
 

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I will also admit that the Burgman is very deceptive in speed. It usually looks like your going slower than it really is. I just wanted more get up and go (for the just-in-case situations).
 

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manual shifting? power button?

I have not tried to pass anybody yet but I'm thinking that a switch to manual mode and/or judicious use of the power button might help. I don't know - my 650 only has 120 miles on it so I haven't tried the upper ranges of the tach, yet.

I know one thing - from a traffic light, it's as quick as my supercharged Miata.

Al
 

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Re: manual shifting? power button?

Al Davison said:
I have not tried to pass anybody yet but I'm thinking that a switch to manual mode and/or judicious use of the power button might help.
Most of the time, I just twist the throttle and go. If you are going 55 - 60 mph and hit the throttle, you can feel the CVT gear down in ratio - similar to a passing gear. You can manually do the same thing, using the power button, but then you have to manually switch out of power mode mid-way through the pass to maintain best accelleration. Just another thing to do while your already busy with passing, turn signals etc. I've found it better to just let the auto mode handle it. The only time power mode gives an advantage in my opinion, is if you are starting a pass at a lower speed, say 35-45 mph. Then you can ride power mode through the entire pass. Manual Mode is largely a waste of time, unless you are drag racing, or trying to make your aftermarket pipe sound cool. I rarely use it. It is basically a marketing gimmick. (And a fine marketing gimmick - it got me into the showroom to look at the 650...)
 

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What do you guys want. Its a scooter and its the fastest and safest scooter out there. Gee, when I want to pass a car doing ninety five, I can do it, but it just doesn't have all the zip I wish it had. Wake up its a scooter.

Happy Trails,
Poppy, #482
 
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