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I have been trying to keep calm but I am at the end. Everytime a poster starts a topic comparing a Burgman 650 to ANYTHING, the topic turns to BASHING the 650's CVT. It has become such a problem that even on a google search the CVT issue pops up. But without any true manufactures data of how many 650s have been made and a very limited amount of riders that have had issues, there are some that write it down as fact the problem is wide spread. A lot of the bashers do not own a 650. Most of what the bashers are posting is Hear-Say with no real proof. Same crap as a Darkside bashing post. I am still on Email so any questions not related to 650's CVT I may be able to answer. Bye
 

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I understand. I especially like the people that have NEVER rode a 650, or simply dislike the way it looks, and feel they can comment on it like the're an expert.

I as well remain in the background, as the tone of some members seems to be a bit biased, almost as bad as religion or politics.

But. I still monitor and watch for the BS. 8)
 

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Dave_J............You contribute so much to BUSA members regardless of whether they are 400 or 650 owners - That it would be a big loss to have you just sit in the background!

You seem to have an extensive knowledge of both mechanical as well as electrical "stuff"......!! Just forget about those bashers and don't let it get to you. After all.....what do they really know about the 650's CVT.....????? Some people would just "bash" their own mothers................................ :( :(
 

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I have no doubt that there are 650's out there with trashed or proublem cvt's. however the two guys that bought used 2003 models that had been road hard and put up wet. Let me ride them and both ran fine, so I bought my 2012. Now a year+ later their's stil run fine. So does mine (except quiter).
 

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I hear you! (only on different toys I've had). I am soooo sick of taking a bath on re- sale because non owner know it alls bash the model I'm riding!
Didn't really know your personality until now (kind of) hope you stay! :thumbup:
 

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Dave, take a deep breath and walk over to your fridge and grab the bottle of Elijah Craig and take a sip or slug, take another deep breath and chalk it up to people being people and there are things we can change and some things we can not so don't wreck your nerves sweating the small stuff! :thumbup:
Relax, come back when you're ready.
Wes
 

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there will always be ignorant people who don't know what they are talking about...

leaving or taking a break on their account is validating their points of views...

easy enough to deal with them, just ignore it....

you know what the 650 is capable of and what its pluses and minuses are...

you have been around long enough to know the truth vs the hype.

stick around, we all enjoy your inputs and jokes....
 

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Dave - please don't - just please report the posts that you feel are biased and the mods will take a view. :wink:
 

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My mother taught me (over 50 years ago) not to worry about what others say or do because I have no control of that. All I have to do is worry about how I respond to what they say or do. My scooter is the best bike on the road! OK, IMHO!! What works for me is what I like. If you don't agree, oh well. The reason I own a Burgman is because I did a lot of research on maxi scooters, and that research lead me here. The opinions and information I found here convinced me to purchase a Burgman. And it was post by people like (and including) Dave-J that helped in my search, as well as my ongoing maintenance and information searches. The price offered me by the dealer (used 650 with less than 2,000 mile...or new 400) helped me decide which model to buy. I've never regreted the decision. Take your break Dave, then join us when you are ready :thumbup:
 

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MarilynsPrince said:
My mother taught me (over 50 years ago) not to worry about what others say or do because I have no control of that. All I have to do is worry about how I respond to what they say or do. My scooter is the best bike on the road! OK, IMHO!! What works for me is what I like. If you don't agree, oh well. The reason I own a Burgman is because I did a lot of research on maxi scooters, and that research lead me here. The opinions and information I found here convinced me to purchase a Burgman. And it was post by people like (and including) Dave-J that helped in my search, as well as my ongoing maintenance and information searches. The price offered me by the dealer (used 650 with less than 2,000 mile...or new 400) helped me decide which model to buy. I've never regreted the decision. Take your break Dave, then join us when you are ready :thumbup:
My experience is similar to yours. After reading here (a lot) I made the decision to buy my 650 Ex. The guys at the dealers (who are friends of mine) tried and tried to get me to buy a Silverwing but I still bought the Burgman. Once my wife sat on the pillion of both bikes and said she liked the Burgman better, that was the final thing to push me to the Burgman. I am (and was) aware that there was a possibility of transmission problems but like Dave, I thought they were (and are) over reported.

Dave, your posts were one of the things that drew me here. You seem to have a solid feel for these bikes and I think you are a good plus for BurgmanUSA. Your posts helped ease any worry I had about spending the money it takes to buy one of these bikes.
 

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Dave - please don't - just please report the posts that you feel are biased and the mods will take a view. :wink:
and they do...much to one 650 snipers dismay. :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
To all BurgmanUSA cast and crew, Thanks for the words of support.

I do not have a problem with someone attacking my name, beliefs, views and comments. I think I have a thick enough skin for that. While I have tried to be a calm member and background leader on these forums, sometime I do get pushed and will respond out loud. Back your attack with facts or stand by for a fight. I do not like bullys. I have in my lifetime fought physical bullying or those that bully using words. I have had my arse handed to me a few times but the bullying stopped. Guess I am a Bully’s Bully. :?

In all the Darkside rantings of the past, I would not let some of the bullys win. They kept ranting on and on the same unfounded “FACTS” without any true seat of the pants testing. Any motorcycle magazine editor that has any tire sponsors will NEVER come out and do a Car tire test on a bike, but that editor WILL come out and state it is not meant to be and unsafe. But all the seat of the pants testing many of us Darksiders have done over the years was always bashed as unproven and stupid. Finally a Moderator stopped the back and forth bashing of each other and set the rules. He caught a lot of flack, on the boards and in PM. But it has been very stable ever since.

The Problem I have, and it is not only because I own a Burgman 650, is with the constant bashing of the 650’s CVT issues. We know from postings that there are about 47 known CVT failures. What we do not know is the amount of AN650’s that Suzuki has made and the amount still in service. So, say there are only 1000 TOTAL AN650 ever made and 47 of them had failures, that’s about 4.7% and is a high rate of failures. What if there were 10,000 AN650s made and 47 had failures, that equals 0.47%, still a failure rate that should be watched but no means something to be alarmed about.

Every time someone posts the question or links a comparison of the AN650 to anything out on the market, within 10 posts or less the question of the AN650s CVT issues comes up. Questioning is OK if it just points out the common problems. But when it is counter opposed that the numbers are small in relation to how many AN650s are out there is when it all starts to spiral down into a bash fest. And sometimes the biggest members jumping on the bashing wagon are not even AN650 owners. They keep doing the “Hear it, Say it” endless postings. Much like the Naysayers on the Darkside wars, no seat of the pants opinion, just what they have heard. Is it on purpose to lower the resale value of the AN650 and increase the value of the AN400??? If so, how daft.

Has anyone done a spreadsheet on AN400 failures? NO??? Not worth the time? Not enough failures? I really do not care to start one. But there has been one started for the 650’s and I think it is biased without enough backbone data. The main question needing an answer is “HOW MANY AN650’s WERE MADE?”. Without that answer, the failure rates stats are moot.

In my postings I try to use plain words in English. Words like “Non Sequitur” and “Nequam” are worthless to me. I did not go to law school and I also do not think most of us on here use that word in our daily conversing with others. :D

I will be on here to read my PM’s and such but do not expect me to join in. Until the Mod’s can find a way to make sure everyone plays by the rules and stops the bashing of items like the AN650’s CVT, I care not to partake. I do not blame the Mods, they have a hard job without payment for doing it. :cheers:
 

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Dave,,, sorry I will not see your replys... I have learned alot from the knowledgeable people here and I consider you one of them...
BUT -- Norman has spoken,,, listen,,, read the words of your piers... your comments will be missed...
 

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MacDoc said:
Dave - please don't - just please report the posts that you feel are biased and the mods will take a view. :wink:
and they do...much to one 650 snipers dismay. :roll:
Not really. On the Darksiders there was one, Rustynail, who constantly bashed us when that wasn't enough I got emails from him calling me a liar, a fat 600 lb young a$$ with no bike and i was just sitting in my parents basement pounding on a computer. He knew all about me, even more then I did because I thot I was in my 60's and my parents dead for nearly 20 years but I apparently was mistaken. I will confess, one day when I got several of his PM's I was sitting in the pilot lounge of Charlotte airport, Charlotte, NC not very far from his house and considered a personal visit to his home. I even looked up his address and put it into Google maps on my iPad. I came to my senses and decided my passengers and my job came first. If I said anything (I did once) about him he got very irate and told me I knew nothing .

I got back with Daboo and after several back and forth messages, some not so nice on my part I confess, he took one of my suggestions and now we have a thread that we can intelligently discuss pro's and con's for which I am very thankful. Thank you Daboo.

In the meantime Rustynail sold his Burgman... He must not have felt the love.... I didn't say anything when he left but now months later I'll say it, "good riddance".
 

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Dave-J. Take your vacation. And then come back. We need your reality-based, positive input and generally good cheer.

I really think the discussions that involve differences of opinion can be the most rewarding provided that they're fact/experience based and civilized. Once I peg a poster as an irrational or non-rational basher, I simply stop paying attention to him. I also ignore people I agree with, but are rude, condescending or simply what I consider bad forum citizens.

As the owner of both a 400 and a 650, it's especially interesting to read useful and insightful posts about a member's own ride, and biased opinion about the Burgman they don't own or ride. I'll give consideration to the former, and take the latter with a grain of salt. If the member is a good guy, I don't mind. We all have our biases.
 

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Dave_J,

I agree with the previous post. A good break away is always good. Sometimes I think I visit the sight too much. Come on back when your ready. In the mean time, go do some good riding. By the time you get back I should be a Darksider. Already got it mounted in the spare rim.
 

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Ya know, there are a lot of reasons to get angry - but for some reason, the Burgman CVT doesn't jump to the top of my list. Get mad about the price of gasoline - the stock market, The IRS, Benghazi, The President's vacations, but people bashing the Burgman CVT? Nah. It's not worth the mental energy.

:thumbup:
 

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Suzuki could do a lot to stop the CVT controversy and just put a belt drive or shaft drive on the Burg650. Suzuki could have made the CVT removable without ripping off all the tupperware and removing the engine. Just blame it on Suzuki for causing all this CVT controversy and not all the negative posters :lol:

I won't worry about the CVT until it breaks down then buy another motorcycle -so not going to fret over the CVT issue until it becomes an issue no matter what is posted :idea:
 

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It's definitely not doing anything good for the resale value of Burgman 650's.
Potential buyers will do their homework by reading this forum, and no matter how the non-alarmists try to point out that there aren't that many failures, the seed gets sown in the back of their minds, and in mine too, that there's no smoke without fire.

We have gotten used to that cars and motorcycles are very reliable, and stuff just doesn't blow up suddenly, but degrade very slowly to a point where it's unacceptable to operate the vehicle any more.
100.000 mile FJR 1300's measured on a dyno have no more HP difference against 10.000 mile specimens than different 10.000 mile specimens have.

The Burgman 650 on the other hand, is like a Labrador dog, once it's 8 years old, and you would wish it could be like that forever, you know that it's downhill from there, and by ten years each day is a gift.
For the Burgman it's not years, but 40.000 and 50.000 miles in stead of 8 and 10 years.

Some Labradors get 12 years old or older, too.

For the resale value of B650's, it doesn't matter what the facts are, it's what the market perceives that direct the prices, and if a 50.000 mile Burgman is basically worthless, the prospective buyer of a 30.000 or 25.000 mile Burgman has to factor that in.
 

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Dave J,

I, for one, think the forum will be a slightly darker place for your absence. If you need time, take it, but never forget that there are other contributors who will be more than happy to see you stick your oar in whenever you feel like it.

If it makes you feel any better, having both a 400, and a 650, I can categorically state that that the troubles I have had have all been on the 400!
(Okay, maybe it'd be more accurate to add that I bought the 400 cheap, with almost 12,000miles on it and obvious signs of mal-treatment, and I bought the 650 new, and still has only 2750miles or so on it, but who cares about the big picture, eh? ) :lol: :lol:

You have to do what is right for you, just be aware there are those who will support you, just as you have supported others.
 
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