Screen Problems

3274 Views 16 Replies 6 Participants Last post by pauljo, Aug 19, 2004

BazMorgan

Discussion Starter · Aug 18, 2004

I have now had my 650 Executive for six weeks. I noticed immediately the problem with wind noise and head buffeting, and followed many of your members suggestions, and have just fitted a Givi Screen.

Fitting the screen was simple, and my first impression of its ability (upto 60mph), was terrific, when compared to Suzuki's own. It certainly reduced Head Buffeting to almost non-existant, and I can now actually here the engine.

However, when I reach a speed of approx 65mph, I start to experience pressure on my back. It's like a vacuum is sucking me towards the screen. As I go faster the pressure increases, to an alarming amount, that causes the bike to wobble slightly. Although the Suzuki screen meant a lot of wind noise and head buffeting, I experienced no back pressure.

Can anybody suggest a remedy?

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

Jim

· #2 · Aug 18, 2004

I assume your riding solo:

As far as the wobble at higher speed, how many miles are on it?
What is your rear shock setting?
If your running at 2 try going to 3 to stiffen it up.
If your running at 3 already, check you bolts in the front end, if you have 2,000 miles or more. They have been known to loosen up.

Back pressure:
I usually ride 2 up so I don't notice the back pressure.
Some riders have cut vents in other aftermarket screens, this my help.

pauljo

· #3 · Aug 18, 2004

Welcome to the forum. Of the screens I've tried, the Givi was the worst for back draft. Cutting a vent in it should help. The Clearview screens don't have as much backdraft, and I understand that they now make them with an optional adjustable vent already installed. The wobbling might be induced by yourself feeding small inputs to the handlebar as you are being sucked forward. The advice on going to a higher rear shock preload setting is also good - that usually enhances stability.

WLB :>)

· #4 · Aug 18, 2004

Drat. This is not the kind of stuff I wanted to hear as I'm having a Givi screen fitted to my AN650 tomorrow. I'll give it a buzz when it's put on to see if I have the same problem.

Doesn't the Executive have the passenger backrest? I wonder if that has anything to do with it. The thing is, I had Suzi's PB fitted to mine as well, so I'll have the same thing to deal with. I'll report back.

WLB

WLB :>)

· #5 · Aug 18, 2004

After reading allwalk's excellent instructions and viewing the pics I decided to attempt the windscreen install myself. Quite simply, 5 minutes off, 5 minutes on, no drama. This board just saved me at least a half-hour labor charge at the shop, $27.00. Thanks!

Impressions for Givi screen:

I'm 6'2". I look through the screen, field of vision maybe 3-4 inches below top, so that's fine. Optical distortion very minimal... about the same as looking through car windshield. Buffeting at speeds up to 80 MPH minimal. Wind noise from OEM greatly reduced. Side-to-side buffeting from passing cars still noticeable, but somewhat smoother. The side wing hand protection is a welcome addition.

Back pressure was very noticeable doing 60 MPH into a headwind, but this virtually ceased when going cross-wind and tail-wind, so that's interesting. It felt like someone was pressing their hand down on my HJC CL-Max helmet... not on my back. This was the only real mark against the Givi, and it's liveable, although for long distances I think it may be tiring quickly.

A short burst to 80 MPH for approx 5 seconds showed no trace of wobble, although I'm wondering how it would behave going past a semi on the interstate at 80 MPH... I could tell the dynamics of the bike have definitely but subtly changed on draft... it will take a bit to get used to this.

Even considering the back pressure under head wind conditions I can tell the Givi is going to do what I wanted... quieter ride, buffetting protection.

This was just a first impression. After longer ride time, if anything else comes up I'll post back.

WLB

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NormanB

· #6 · Aug 18, 2004

BazMorgan said:
[snipped]
Can anybody suggest a remedy?

Hi Baz

This is normal and to be be honest sort of expected.

Essentially you have just shovelled a load of air out of the way and it is trying to get back and get on with what it was doing! :wink:

As others have mentioned a vent may help to raise the pressure in the otherwise low pressure area you are creating - or you could fiddle about trying to adjust the rake of the screen with rubber washers so that the 'collapse' moves further back from you.

NormanB

· #7 · Aug 18, 2004

WLB :>) said:
[snipped]

Impressions for Givi screen:

I'm 6'2". I look through the screen, field of vision maybe 3-4 inches below top, so that's fine. Optical distortion very minimal... about the same as looking through car windshield. [further snip]
WLB

You may wish to reconsider this. Looking thru the screen is bad ju ju in wet weather. Best if your natural eyeline is at the top of the screen so you do not have to look thru - but the airflow should be carrying the crap over the top of your visor.

Or maybe just carry a cushion for when conditions require you to look over rather than thru.

WLB :>)

· #8 · Aug 19, 2004

You may wish to reconsider this. Looking thru the screen is bad ju ju in wet weather.

I agree with you. However, I don't intend to be riding in wet weather, other than getting caught in the rain, which I hope to keep to an absolute minimum. I don't intend to be a cross-country long distance rider; day trips will be about what I'll do, and I'll be reasonably sure the weather will cooperate for that.

If the time comes if/when I decide to take a cross-country trip I'd probably refit the OEM screen, which I see over comfortably, and put up with the wind. I'd rather be able to see over it if I did have to ride in the rain.

Thanks...

WLB

pauljo

· #9 · Aug 19, 2004

I've always had a screen that I could look over. Well, heck, at 6'6" tall, nobody makes a screen that I CAN'T look over! :? But I was really surprised at the number of riders at Scootercade that had windscreen setups that they did have to look through, and they seemed happy with them. I think to be totally free of helmet buffeting and wind noise on the 650, you kind of have to do that - and for some folks that is a bigger concern than the "rain ride" issue.

The reason I say this is unique to the AN650, is because of that darn rubber nut mounting system that allows the screen to move back and forth a bit. As it does that, you get a certain amount of fluctuating wind slap at the top of your helmet - unless you've got it clearing the top of your helmet by at least an inch. The 400 appears to be a solid mount system similar to what my V-Strom uses, which I feel is a better design.

NormanB

· #10 · Aug 19, 2004

pauljo said:
[snipped]
The reason I say this is unique to the AN650, is because of that darn rubber nut mounting system that allows the screen to move back and forth a bit. As it does that, you get a certain amount of fluctuating wind slap at the top of your helmet - unless you've got it clearing the top of your helmet by at least an inch. The 400 appears to be a solid mount system similar to what my V-Strom uses, which I feel is a better design.

Hi Pauljo.

First I was under the impression that you did not ride fast enough to create a back pressure! :wink:

The 400 actually uses the same rubber nut mounting system. If a Givi is fitted to the 400, 2 additional metal struts provide mid line support but it does flex in the 'right conditions'.

ted clement

· #11 · Aug 19, 2004

Norm, where did the struts you refer to come from, and where are they attached? Two of us have GIVI's on our 400's...no struts were included.

I've had my 400 out on the interstate running at 70-75 constant and I didn't notice any particular turbulance over the OEM, nor any excessive flexing. The exception being the back pressure on the helmet of course which would get pretty tiresome on a high speed long haul. And for me, I am not satisified with the optics. Additionally, I don't especially like that much coverage and have gone back to the OEM. Will put the GIVI back on when the WX gets cold.

One of my buddies with the GIVI is perfectly satisfied with it...so it all depends on ones "sensitivities" to wind and vision.

NormanB

· #12 · Aug 19, 2004

Ted

I picked up a pre owned Givi and they were supplied with it.

I am not sure if I have a pic (but I will look) and I have reverted to stock for the summer ( what a joke that is - we just need a plague of frogs to complete the hand).

I was not talking bad flexing either.

pauljo

· #13 · Aug 19, 2004

NormanB said:
pauljo said:

The reason I say this is unique to the AN650, is because of that darn rubber nut mounting system that allows the screen to move back and forth a bit. As it does that, you get a certain amount of fluctuating wind slap at the top of your helmet - unless you've got it clearing the top of your helmet by at least an inch. The 400 appears to be a solid mount system similar to what my V-Strom uses, which I feel is a better design.

Click to expand...

Hi Pauljo.

First I was under the impression that you did not ride fast enough to create a back pressure! :wink:

The 400 actually uses the same rubber nut mounting system. If a Givi is fitted to the 400, 2 additional metal struts provide mid line support but it does flex in the 'right conditions'.

Yah! I've got to talk to that Doug about the damage he is doing to my reputation! :wink: Actually, I have had the 650 up over 100 mph when doing windscreen testing - back before I went into "behaving mode" of course. And I still get into the 90's on passes occasionally. My current original design Clearview - and the prior Gustafsson windscreen - are narrower that the Givi and the newer Clearview designs, and there are no "hand wings". Back draft is not an issue with these. I think that the wider designs aggravate that problem. I'd love to try a vented Clearview - but not enough to pay for one right now...

I didn't look at the 400 windscreen mount closely - from a few feet away, my impression was that it was different. On my V-Strom, the base of the windscreen slides into a large slot and two screws hold it in place. Simple, effective, and NO flex. They have since gone to an adjustable height mounting system - I think it is also rigid, but I'm not positive.

WLB :>)

· #14 · Aug 19, 2004

The reason I say this is unique to the AN650, is because of that darn rubber nut mounting system that allows the screen to move back and forth a bit. As it does that, you get a certain amount of fluctuating wind slap at the top of your helmet - unless you've got it clearing the top of your helmet by at least an inch.

Hmmm. I don't seem to be having this problem... but then again I tightened the 4 screws through the grommets pretty tight... *really* tight. I wanted to be careful not to strip anything, but I wanted the thing to stay on. I had a small amount of windflex, and maybe a tad more than the OEM, but not a deal breaker. Dumb question, but are you sure your screws aren't loose? (LOL)

Anyway, I'm going to take her out on the freeway in a few minutes... acid test for sure.

WLB

pauljo

· #15 · Aug 19, 2004

WLB :>) said:
Dumb question, but are you sure your screws aren't loose? (LOL)

Screws are tight for sure. I've found that the amount of flex varies with windscreen design - and most certainly with riding conditions. On a Nebraska 2 lane highway, with folks traveling at 70 mph, an approaching semi truck can hurl a pretty mighty wind blast at you... A direct headwind on the freeway - or following in the turbulent wind draft of a truck, can also induce the flutter. At speeds less than 60 mph it is rarely an issue - but I do much of my riding at speeds higher than that. In a hilly and/or wooded area such as New England, or the Ozarks in Arkansas, the natural terrain breaks the wind most of the time. The wind blows often and vigorously out here in the plains, and there is no natural cover from it - so where you live and ride also has bearing. The flex is also most noticable with the tallest windscreens - the farther the top of the windscreen is from the base mount, the more it will move with the same amount of flex at the base.

WLB :>)

· #16 · Aug 19, 2004

Just got back from a freeway run... and helping a damsel in distress change her tire. Semi's blowing by... that was way fun! :!:

Anyway, at sustained speeds of 65-75 MPH the Givi windscreen performed well for me. I noticed much less of the side-to-side buffetting I was getting on the same run with the OEM windscreen, and of course wind noise was drastically reduced. Hands, wearing vented leather gloves, were totally comfortable; on other days like this I had to break out my heavy, non-vented gloves, so that's a vast improvement also.

Flex, even with pretty strong blow-by, was minimal, and not distracting. Another curiosity: with the OEM screen, my RPMs would stay right at 4000 at 60 MPH. I noticed consistently today that I was now able to cruise at 67 MPH and the bar was right at 4000. Odd, but somehow I doubt this will translate to better mileage. We'll see.

Perhaps the most important thing to me is, I realized a few miles into the ride that I was much more comfortable and at ease. The bike was much more stable-feeling with the new screen and I didn't feel as distracted by the wind noise and other accouterments the OEM screen introduced. Once I got used to the slightly different behavior from blow-by I realized the bike was going to handle it fine and I settled right into it. Much, much better. Today I also realized that I hadn't experienced at all the back pressure I experienced initially yesterday when I was going into the headwind. That was odd, but I was glad it wasn't there. Not sure what was different, except yesterday I was jacketless whereas today it was chilly so I had my leather jacket on. Could that have changed the dynamics enough to get rid of the back pressure? I'm not sure, but I didn't have it today going all directions with head, side, and tail winds.

I paid the dealer $122 and some change, and as of right now I feel it was worth every penny. Perhaps at some point for the sake of science (LOL) I'll get a Clearview with the vent. It would be interesting to see how it performs vs. the OEM and Givi.

WLB

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pauljo

· #17 · Aug 19, 2004

WLB :>) said:
Today I also realized that I hadn't experienced at all the back pressure I experienced initially yesterday when I was going into the headwind. That was odd, but I was glad it wasn't there. Not sure what was different,

This has happened to me time and time again while experimenting with windscreens. I'll test ride - and everything will seem fine. I'll ride the next day and wonder if it's the same windscreen because all of a sudden I am experiencing excessive flex motion, or helmet buffeting, or noise. Mother nature is constantly changing the equation that the windscreen is trying to deal with... Unless you go with an excessively large (look through) screen solution, a setup that works satisfactorily about 80% of the time seems to be a reasonable target to shoot for.

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