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Discussion Starter #1
Hello. This is an awesome site and has been a great source of information. I’m very interested in the Burgman 400 but just want to make sure I have some info down before moving forward. I have reviewed previous post and a few online magazine articles about the 400. As can be expected there are different views and opinions about certain things. I currently ride a V-star 650 and am looking for something with more comfort, weather protection and convenience. These are some of the questions I want to nail down.











Thanks again.

G
 

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Welcome to the BurgmanUSA forums G. Glad to have you join us.

1 - I've had mine at 95 (indicated) or around 90 true speed. I might have been able to eek out another couple of MPH at best on flat ground.

2 - Dunno. Will follow up when the sun is out. :)

3 - No excessive vibration at 70. The mirrors don't vibrate and provide a steady view.

4 - A couple of mid size hondas many (16+) years ago.

5 - Define long range. I've had mine on a few 200+ mile days. I'll be using mine for the daily commute of 160+ miles round trip. Given a few minor mods, I see no reason why I wouldn't go touring cross country.
 

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Welcome,

Riding Solo the 400 should be no problem @ 70 mph.

Riding 2 up @ steady 70-75 the 650 would better.

both offer good weather protection, and are very smooth
 

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My 2 cents.

6200RMPs @ 70MPH
7000RPMs @ 80MPH

No vibration at 70-80+ MPH

As for long rides, I am taking a 300 (each way trip in a few weeks and I will let you know. However, I expect it will be great; put my feet up, lean back and enjoy the ride. :wink:

You should also think about the maintenance:
Oil changes are a snap.
Valve adjustment is more involved, but the hardest part is getting all the plastics off. However, after you do it once it will also be a snap and will not take you more then a few hours.
I cannot speak to other maintenance issues, as I have not performed them yet.

I am personally tempted to move up to a 650, but the 400 really fills all my needs and the 650 is a lot of machine. I hope this helps.
 

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I will dito all the above posts except I have never got above 87 (indicated) but with gear and my self that's over 300 lbs on the bike.
I have 12000 miles on 400 right now and no trouble and I don't think I would buy a 650 because the longest trips I take are only 1000 miles (in 2 days) which the 400 has no problem with. But most times it's stop and go running into and around town. I also have a BMW1200C but I just don't seem to ride that anymore even on the longer trips :(
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: My 2 cents.

NYBubba said:
7000RMPs @ 70MPH
8000RPMs @ 80MPH
No vibration at 70-80+ MPH.
Thanks to everyone for the info. Those RPMs seem high to me. Does the 400 seem to be stressed at this level.
 

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Re: My 2 cents.

G said:
NYBubba said:
7000RMPs @ 70MPH
8000RPMs @ 80MPH
No vibration at 70-80+ MPH.
Thanks to everyone for the info. Those RPMs seem high to me. Does the 400 seem to be stressed at this level.
Its designed for it - engines like to work - it keeps 'em clean and it keeps 'em mean! :wink:

I do not have a tacho, I commute 30 miles round trip, 22 miles at 80mph + indicated, the engine sounds relaxed enough to me and I have a reserve for passing awkward cagers. Not having a tacho might be a good thing - I don't fret what rpm I am doing - my eyes are on the road, the cagers and looking out for speed traps!! :wink:
 

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NYBubba wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the info. Those RPMs seem high to me. Does the 400 seem to be stressed at this level.
Don't forget we are talking out a single cylinder engine, a V/twin would cut that in half.
But like NormanB said they are are made for it. And are not stressed.
Granted your going to get under 100,000 miles before you have to rebuild but that's a long way off. :)
 

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Just remembered to check the RPMs today. These were measured on a long flat stretch of road and I let the engine run at that speed for a bit. Remember that true speed on my 400 is about 6% lower than indicated.

60 (indicated) - 5250 RPMs
70 (indicated) - 6100 RPMs
 

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Considering that the power band only really kicks in 3,500 you need to have 7000rpm or so on the clock for overtakes at a true 70mph, so the gearing is spot on. Interestingly the 650s electronic CVT has it revving at 4,000 rpm most of the time, but if you are cruising at 70mph it is revving higher than that, and if you attempt to make a brisk overtake it will rev up to the top end of the range.

Remember that these are CVT automatics, so the whole gearing and engine tuning thing makes traditional comparisons with motorcycles for suitability for touring a lot less valid than it might at first seem. There is no way to shift down a couple gears to put them in the powerband to make overtakes, so an "overdrive" type of low revving setting for the CVT would make them unrideable in real world conditions. These singles are tough and can take 7-8,000 rpm all day without problem.

Good luck.
 

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It seems the specifics you requested have been answered. I will address the comparison to conventional motorcycles.

The Burgie 400 will smoke most conventional motorcycles of equivilant and greater CC in all but the most demanding situations. Yes, if you take your 650 and rev the daylights out of it in each gear, you will outaccelerate the Burgie 400. However, I would guess if you shift as a normal person would, at around 60 to 80 percent of redline, the 400 would probably keep up. From 60MPh to 80MPH in top gear, the Burgie should have an advantage. Even if you downshift to a lower gear at that speed, I don't thing you are going to see an appreciable speed difference, at least that's my seat of the pants evaluation. The only rub some people have against the Burgie is the RPM's are kept low before 50MPH, but Norm can tell you how to change your Variator to address this. I am "pokey" and don't mind this at all.

My experience is compared to my last conventional motorcycle, a Honda CX500. Liquid cooled 4Valve V-twin with 50HP and a 10K redline.

The 6100 RPM @ 70MPH is accurate, but if you twist the throttle for more speed at 70MPH, the tach will jump to 6500-7000 RPM and the speedo will JUMP to 80MPh in a hurry. I have never topped out my Burgie but 85MPh is a breeze!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks again for all the inputs. Im not really looking to get the 400 as a drag strip machine. Im more interested in having something that is comfortable ergo wise and smooth engine wise. It has to be able to cruise at a true 70-75 mph smoothly though. Thats my only concern with this transition right now. If this machine tops out at a true 85-87 mph then how well will it handle a true cruise speed of 70 mph. I would really like to have the oppotunity to test ride one but that isnt something available in my area. This deal will be based soley on the reports of others. Thanks again.
 

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That was my priority when I bought mine. I had a Honda Helix which did everything that I wanted with no problem except it had marginal acceleration above 55MPH and a top end of approx. 70MPH. Ironically, with a 70MPH top speed, it's most comfortable cruising speed was around 65MPH.

The Burgman is kind of the same way. While the top end is only 85-95MPH, a cruising speed of only 10MPH less is very comfortable with the machine.

Part of the reason for this is that the scooters, through design, have a limited top end because of tire size. The Helix had a 10" rear wheel. The Helix was limited on it's top end by gearing and air restriction. The Burgman is limited to under 100MPH because of it's 13" tires.

I hope this helps to explain why the scooters seem to run at a decent clip even with the top speed being relatively low.
 

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G said:
It has to be able to cruise at a true 70-75 mph smoothly though. Thats my only concern with this transition right now. If this machine tops out at a true 85-87 mph then how well will it handle a true cruise speed of 70 mph.
Mine topped out at 95 (indicated). Given perfect conditions, I might have eeked out a couple more MPH. I've ridden an hour on the interstate and never was below 75 the entire time. Another rider just posted a great report about a ride he took on a 400 that you should (if you haven't already) read :

http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2827
 

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G,

I have a Reflex 250 ABS that I use everyday for the commute. Being the slipperiest of the 250/400 big-scoots, it has a top speed similar to the AN400 ([email protected] 9,000rpm) as long as you are a size and shape that fits inside the air bubble created by the front cowl. I used this as an alternative to the X11 as a wet weather tourer for 18 months before buying the 650. Granted it couldn’t go up hills, but it went down them very quickly indeed, and cruised all day at 60mph without problem with passenger. Solo, you can cruise at 70mph all day without any problem at all. Acceleration from 70mph to the 83mph top speed is similar to a 1litre 5 door runabout – hardly urgent.

The AN400 has a true top-speed of around 85-90mph (depending on your size and shape) but it can cruise all day at 70mph, but I suspect that this is not the purpose that it was designed for.

The single cylinder scooters are still designed largely for the Japanese market in mind, and with the global market as a distinct number 2. Have you ever thought why the Japanese manufacturers produce 400cc singles as opposed to 500cc singles like the Italians? It's to conform to the Japanese license categories (250/400/unlimited). These things are made for Japan – and largely Tokyo - where they replace the car for many inhabitants and have killed the 400cc conventional bike market dead. No longer does a Japanese highschool boy pass his 400cc bike test at 16 and jump onto a loud-piped CB400, uniformed girlfriend's legs on full view as her pleated skirt flies up in the wind. No, no. Now it's a neon-underlit 2005 Forza 250 with built in speakers blasting J-Pop over the rumble of his straight through pipe as he pumps the throttle pointlessly, whislt holding the rear brake, at junctions. It's also the choice for many business people tired of being squashed to death each morning on the subway.

The 250/400cc big-scoots are designed to give strong performance around town, combined with ease of riding in all weather conditions, good ergonomics for rider and passenger (for people between 5ft and 5ft 10ins), carrying space good for two full sized helmets / A4 briefcase / golf clubs / camping gear / tennis gear, and the ability to go for short touring (possibly overnight camping running up 300 miles or so). Dedicated 75mph highway cruising is not specifically what they are designed for – the highway speed limit here is 60mph, and the fastest flow of traffic will travel up to 70mph, and ultimately get pulled over.

Dedicated high-speed cruising on highways across the globe is what the twin cylinder 600/650cc GT scooters are for.

You should go for a 650.
 

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800 miles non-stop apart from fuel stops (and ferry) from Germany to UK - never under 80 mph apart from the last 30 miles to Calais when the fuel guage was reading under the reserve fuel area !!!!
 

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Agree with most of the above.

Regards 5. recently did a long, (by my standards) journey. 400 miles or there abouts.

No problems at all in any of the road conditions encountered. Urban roads, motorways, (UK). Varying speeds and weather conditions. Cruised on the motorway at 80+ with the occasional flurry up to 90. (Don't quote me in case Mr Policeman is scouring these pages!!!!!!! :D )

Love the machine, its handles superbly. I even throw the thing around the rural backroads when given the opportunity. After altering the suspension a little. :twisted:

doug
 
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