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On long trips or for riding in unfamiliar parts of the country, do you pack a self defense pistol?

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  • No

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Discussion Starter #1
This is probably a tough question to ask, but I am going to ask it anyway.

What are your thoughts on packing a self defense weapon on long trips or when traveling in unfamiliar parts of the country?

If so, what do you think is the best one to carry?

.22?
.38?
9mm?

Just curious.


ZH
 

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ZH-
This is hard to take seriously. It can be concluded from your post that you have little or no knowledge of firearms, let alone deciding to carry for self defense.

So if you are serious about this, then here is my advice:

1. Take a beginning handgun saftey class. Learn about the subject.
2. Practice at a pistol range for several months.
3. If you are still interested in "packing", and if your state allows, take
advanced training, and obtain a carry permit for your state of
residence. I believe Florida is a "Shall issue" permit state.
4. Obtain non resident carry permit(s) for any state you intend to visit.
5. Dont' "pack" in any state that you do not have a permit for.

Once you go thru all this, or at least thru step 3, then you will have the knowledge to answer your questions.
Brewman
 

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Brewman summed it up pretty well.

I'll add a few things. A .22 isn't a self defense weapon. While a well placed shot with a .22 can kill, that's not the object of a self defense weapon; the object is to stop, right now, no chance to attack before dieing. .22s are for target shooters, very small game (squirrel, etc.) hunters, poachers, and assasins.

9mm would be my minimum choice for an autopistol (.40S&W is better, .45 is what I carry now), and .38+P would be my minimum for a revolver (.44 Special is what I used to carry).

Most states require a permit or license to carry a concealed weapon. Few recognize permits from other states. Unconcealed weapons aren't much good for self defense, because a forwarned assailant will take precautions. Plus, even unconcealed weapons are (rightly or not) unlawful in many places.

My personal position? Because of my former occupations (cop, private detective, bodyguard) I generally carry when in my home state. I don't carry in other states anymore, because I'm out of that line of work and don't have the "credentials" anymore. On a long trip, particulalry to "unfamiliar parts of the country" where I'm crossing many jurisdictions it would just be more trouble than it's worth trying to learn all the laws, let alone trying to comply with them all.

HTH.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have taken all the gun safety courses and can carry a firearm. In Florida, you do not need a permit to carry in a vehicle as long as you have a "two step" procedure for retreiving it, eg. in glove box, etc. Of course, once out of your vehicle, you need a permit to carry it on your person.

I am not advocating anyone carrying one. You are right about some states allowing and some not. I guess the best thing to do is rely on the speed and agility of the Burgman to "get out of the way" of any problem that may arise.
 

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Ditto what Brewman said. I'll add a couple things since I too have a L.E.O. background.

Many states have receprocity laws which allow you to legally carry in that state if you have a license to carry in another state. As alwyas, check the laws of the state in which you are traveling.

Most "encounters" can be prevented in the first place. If you find yourself in a situation it is usually because you mentally failed to percieve the situation and avoid it. Mental mindset and the will to use any force is a very differcult concept for many and they just barely touch on the topic in a CHL class. If you carry, get additional training other than just the CHL class.

Lastly, many consider the gun as a talisman. "If I have it, I'm safe" It is only one tool in your self defense toolbox. Unarmed self defense tactics, a folding knife, and ultimately your mind are additional weapons in your toolbox. If all you have is a hammer, all the problems encountered look like a nail.

Ride safe and be safe, Chris
 

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Zaikas Hubby said:
...In Florida, you do not need a permit to carry in a vehicle as long as you have a "two step" procedure for retreiving it, eg. in glove box, etc. ...
A "two step" weapon is useless for self defense.

If you have time to retrieve and load your weapon, you have time for other options. Two step rules are only of use to hunters.

Self defense situations requiring deadly force happen right now, no time to get ready. They require advanced planning and advanced training if they're to be survived.
 

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Hope this site don't get on carrying guns or not since it has nothing to do with our Burgman and riding.

I'm not against guns if you know how to use it and you know if the time comes you could use it.

Now let's get back to Burgman talk.

Ruthie
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good idea

You are right Ruthie!

Riding the Burgman is much more interesting! :D

Subject dropped as far as I am concerned.


ZH
 

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Ruthie said:
Hope this site don't get on carrying guns or not since it has nothing to do with our Burgman and riding. ...
The whole site needn't get into the topic, but since this thread is about carrying guns while touring it has everything to do with our Burgmans and our riding.

It's a perfectly legitimate topic, and those who don't want to join the discussion can go elsewhere. No one's being forced to participate, but neither should anyone be made to feel guilty about talking about it.

I didn't see you complain when we've had discussions of what tools to carry or what kind of clothes to wear. This is no different.

I hope you don't think I'm being rude or harsh, but that's the way I see it.
 

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Well said, Brian. This is the General Discussion forum, so I can certainly see the relevance. Also, the post has a clearly stated subject, so those who object to the content are free to avoid particitaing. There are many other threads in this section for which you can make the same claim.

It was an excellent question, in my humble, newbie opinion.

Brewman
 

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Carrying a handgun for self defense on a scooter or in a car doesn't seem to make sense to me. The only way they would be of any use is if you have them loaded and at the ready - and I don't want to do that. I would think it would be easier to hit the gas and go, than to reach for a handgun. And if someone else pulls a gun on you to steal your ride - you're only going to get shot if you reach for your gun.
 

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Bearing in mind that for the most part you need both hands on the handlebars a more effective weapon system may need integration with the bike. The manual/drive switch on the Lardy is largely redundant so could be utilised as an a two stage - deploy and fire control switch.

The next bit is tricky and that is the delivery system - for those who have not squandered their 'glove boxes' by fitting audio speakers I believe with a minor modification these could be utilised for small forward firing weapons. For the attacker approaching from the rear I believe the Givi mount may prove adapatable to carry a minigun (like they have in choppers) with the belt feed rising and falling through slots in the Topbox itself. This of course is a limited solution as it is not trainable and ideally needs mounting on a buffered 3 axis mount which could really only be operated by your passenger. A new backrest will also be needed as your passenger will have to travel 'backwards'.

:whdat:
 

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There are a great many viewpoints and positions presented here. I, too feel that this is a relevant and necessary discussion.

I carry.

I am trained, physically, metally, & intellectualy to defend mine or someone else's life. I am not now nor have I ever been a L.E.O. or military. I took it on myself many, many years ago to be prepared for the worst, and have taken the steps necessary to do it properly.

I have been carrying, and training ever since it was first legal to get a CHL in Texas (one of the early adopters of the law). I have never carried illegaly and still don't to this day. Maintainig this claim requires an incredible amount of ongoing study, knowing which states have reciprocity with my home state, and which don't. When traveling in a state or region that bans carry or does not have reciprocity with my state, I disarm, unload, and secure my weapon to comply with the law. If I'm going to a place that mere posession is against the law, then I don't go to that place on the road, I'll fly and then leave as soon as my business is concluded.

Someone posted that they didn't feel all of the aggravation was necessary and they chose not to go through it. That's fine, thier choice and they made it. There is no right or wrong answer to this issue if you have looked deep inside yourself, understood the ramifications of either action or inaction and made your choice honestly. Some people can't or won't accept the responsibility or the consequences of making the potentialy split second decision between life or death. That's totally ok. It leaves it to those of us who do accept both the responsibility and the consequences to do what is right and necessary sometimes.

The point has been made that being in a self-defense situation is a mental failure to recognize the hazard and avoid it, this is very true and something to be avoided at all cost. But even the best trained arbiter in the world can find him or herself in a position that cannot be resolved peacefully, and that is when preparation and willingness to accept the consequences of violence become necessary.

I have never, ever pulled my weapon in public. I have striven mightily to avoid it. I have always been able to defuse the situation, give up the money or the vehicle, or even taken a beating on occasion to avoid taking a life unnecessarily. But if I or someone else is looking down the wrong end of a gun barrel, and the maniac on the other end of it clearly isn't in control of either himself or the situation and somebody is going to wind up dead, I would rather that innocence prevail and the assailant be that victim.

This is what I have spent years of my life preparing for, asking and expecting no thanks from anyone. I feel it is my duty to mankind to accept whatever responsibility I can to ensure that right, innocence, and liberty are available for all who want it, and that oppression, abuse, and insanity do not prevail.

I have never committed excessive violence to defend myself or anyone else.

I pray I never have to.

But, should it become necessary, I will step up and defend what is right and place myself in God's hands to do with as He wills.

If you think that's silly, or martyrish, then that is your right. I look on it as my duty, as is my right.
 

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So far the only post I agree with is from Norman's. Except I m not sure if there is enough room for a belt feed. :roll:

I hate to say it but killing someone is not hard.
But until you have been judged in a court of law, and faced his family in a civil suit, and had your world turned-up-side down & and in-side-out...
Well........You know what they say about talk..
 

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Randy,

I agree, however, please note that I said excessive violence when refering to not having ever used it.

I have had occassion to need to resort to limited violence to resolve volitile situations I just walked into by accident. Believe me when I say that the aftermath was in no way pleasant, but ultimately no one was killed and no one was permanantly injured, and the judge ruled that I acted correctly.
 

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Hey don't get me wrong. I'm not one to hand over my scoot and roll over like a lamb at the slaughter. All too often armed thieves shoot their obliging victoms for spite or to have no witnesses. I'd rather die standing up for myself or someone else, than to take a bullet to the back of the head after handing over my keys and wallet... I just don't think you could get to your gun fast enough on the scoot to not get shot first. I'd rather hit the gas and speed off. Shooting would draw them more attention too early in the crime for stealing your wallet, and it would damage the scooter (if that was what they were after).
 

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Burgman's are probably not good drive by vehicles. Two steps are better than none. I have a c.w.p. and carry when on my bike. This is not for immediate protection . If you can do the twist and go to avoid confrontation I suggest that. I carry for the time when something happens in the middle of nowhere and you are stranded on the side of the road. Most of the back roads in south florida have canals next to them. It is not unusual to find someones body in the canal and their vehicle and valueables missing. Criminals prefer unarmed victums.
 

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Theo wrote (snipped)
Most of the back roads in south florida have canals next to them. It is not unusual to find someones body in the canal and their vehicle and valueables missing.
And sometimes you find the vehicle and all the valuables, no body..
Alligator got that one. :(
 

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I used to be a moderately serious shooter, and am probably one of only a few people on this forum who can honestly claim to have shot 2" groups consistently at 50 yards from a (scoped) revolver. (Anyone who thinks this is easy should try it, keeping in mind the word "consistently".) I am also a life member of the NRA, and have been pretty active on the firearm politics front if favor of concealed-carry stuff, etc.

Yet, I don't have a cc permit, nor am I planning on getting one any time soon.

Why? A variety of reasons. First, even though I'm fairly fat and basically a pretty nice guy, apparently I carry an aura of menace about me. Many people I've gotten to know over the years have admitted that they were irrationally frightened of me at first, though they can never say quite why. Over time I've learned to watch for signs of fear in others when first meeting them, and by golly, now that I know what I'm looking for I actually find it fairly often.

While this has made my dating life rather difficult (women are far more likely to be afraid of me than men, for some reason) it's also given me a degree of immunity to personal conflict issues. I've done construction-related work on the streets of East St. Louis, for example, and St. Louis's North Side, mostly without being bothered in the least. (And when I _was_ bothered, the bad guys chose not to call my bluff.) While I'd be foolish to _depend_ on the way people tend to react to me for my personal safety, I also have to question whether it's a good idea for someone with a problem like mine to carry in the first place. Several ex-cops, who later became good friends, have told me that I set off all their subconscious alarms when they first met me, and that they expected to discover that I had a long, violent record. (I don't! Honest!) In general, I fear that in my particular case a gun is more likely to cause a terrible misunderstanding than do me any good.

So, at least until I become physically feeble and start being harassed, I don't think it's a good idea for me to carry. The decision is a highly personal one, however, and I've actively defended the right of others to do so many times in the past. Just be advised before you make that choice that it's a very serious step, and one in which _many_ factors oughta play.
 
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