Suzuki Burgman USA Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Don't know if I should start a new thread.
[Edit by moderator to split into new thread.]

My plate ring came completely off; only about a twisted half of it was left laying on the bottom of the crankcase cover; no screws were found (one of the ring tabs remained attached, so that's reassuring---lol).

Both variator faces have shallow gouges. I haven't taken the clutch apart but there are a few gouges visible near the center of its two faces as well. A circle-clip from one of the posts which holds the pads in place on the HiT is missing; the washer-sleeve it secures remains. The belt has only a few "chips" taken off the outside upper aspect of several ribs but I'm sure it'll need replacement.

I fear the most ominous symptom is a thin coating of oil in the crankcase---enough that a few drops were noticed on the garage floor and around the outer rear tire. From where it is entering is not obvious; I'm sure someone will know.

Okay, I'm ready for the bad news.

What other things should I look for?
 

·
I'm Retired
Joined
·
9,364 Posts
Yes, we definitely need pictures. Wow, I'm sorry to hear of this. :shock: As I've told some people around here, I'd hate to have something come loose at 6000 rpms in an enclosed space. :shock:

The variator and clutch faces may be salvageable. And it depends on how many "chips" are missing on the belt. The problem you're facing there, is the belt sides (where the chips are) is what grabs the variator and clutch faces...not the top or bottom. If the faces are rough, they'll chew up the belt in no time. And is the belt capable of doing what it needs to do. (If the belt isn't serviceable, give me a PM. I may be able to help.) Pictures would help a lot...no, they'd help enormously.

I can't picture the circle-clip and washer-sleeve you mentioned. Again, a picture would help.

There are two places that come to mind where the oil could come from. One would be from the engine block. The shaft the variator is attached to, is the engine crankshaft. Hopefully, it is not coming from the seal there. The other is the final drive. Maybe there's somewhere else, but it doesn't come to mind.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,787 Posts
The fellow mentioned the HIT clutch, he is likely referring to one of these cir-clips:



I agree as to the oil, the crank seal and/or final drive seal are the only possible sources...
 

·
I'm Retired
Joined
·
9,364 Posts
Re: Is it Safe to Ride?Oil leak and disintegrated variator r

That's the one I thought of too, but that's a lot of force to knock that off. I wanted to be sure in case there was another I hadn't thought of. Of course, at 6000 rpms in an enclosed area, things will be bouncing around fast. Taly didn't mention the condition of the rollers or DPS weights. If the "moveable cover" disintegrated, what happened back there before the pieces went flying loose?

The nice part about this, is the repair isn't going to cost as much as the 650's repairs do even if he has to replace everything. But I'm afraid it still won't be cheap.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,787 Posts
Chris,

As you said earlier, with all that metal flying around there's no telling what would go which way.

I replaced the stock soft steel screws with SS Phillips heads because the OEM screw heads were a bit chewed up, and use an 18V impact driver to knock those screws tight. If I didn't have such a tool I'd put a drop of hi-temp Loctite on 'em.

has anyone run without the retaining plate? There's no way the rollers/sliders could come out without it, maybe next time I'll leave it off and see if it affects operation or performance in any way...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Sorry it took so long to get back.

I think I have a line on used CVT parts from a 2007 with a broken engine. Yes, it was one of the cir-clips Cliffyk mentioned. Can I replace it? And thanks, Chris, about the belt; don't yet know if I'll need it.

I'm guessing the plate ring came off due to the three applications of dry-lube during a recent cleaning. It must have gotten into the screw holes and I didn't focus on torquing there.

The dark oil didn't come from the rear-drive; it has red Motul oil and the volume was full. So, is it feasible to have the crankshaft seal replaced?

I'll see if I can get a camera.
 

·
I'm Retired
Joined
·
9,364 Posts
taly said:
...So, is it feasible to have the crankshaft seal replaced? I'll see if I can get a camera.
You'll want to read this thread over thoroughly before proceeding with any more $$ on repairs. viewtopic.php?f=47&t=54826&p=505866&hilit=crankshaft+seal#p505866

Another member had his crankshaft seal leak. His was covered under warranty. You may want to make sure where the leak is coming from before taking any steps to buy parts and see what the cost might be. Cliffyk had a link to some "shaft repair sleeves" that would be worth investigating.

The damaged parts are a "known" cost. The "unknown" cost is the leak.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Well, I had my ramp plate shear into two pieces and then it spun around, gouging the Crankshaft Oil Seal, and it damaged the raceway that the seal seats into as well. I had a bad oil leak as a result, coming from the crankshaft. When I went to install a new oil seal, I discovered this raceway damage. I SOLVED this problem, by roughing up the area, sanding it, and even scratching it on purpose with the back side of an x-acto blade, then I cleaned with acetone, and I glued the new oil seal in place using a 5-minute version of JB Weld-styled adhesive (by Loctite) available at Wal Mart. I could just as well used real JB weld. This repair actually worked, and I have some amazing before-raceway-damaged, after-raceway-damaged, and after-repaired with JB Weld PHOTOS, but regrettably I don't have time right now to track down and post those pics......maybe later. Besides, who is to say that anyone else even needs to do the same, crazy repair? My only other option was to perhaps call it "totaled".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Some more Info that may help: I was able to track down my oil leak by doing several things, which I will try to share with you. Mind you, that this is my approach, and is a response to many, many times having to take apart the transmission cover to work on it (and the muffler as well). I removed my lower fiberglass cowlings, and the bottom plastic cover, permanently. I cleaned and numbered all the screws (see Mitch Bergsmas videos). I assembled a cordless drill with socket adapter and extension, with the torque limiter set to 7 or another low number, for removing the ten or eleven screws holding the cover on. I got real good at quickly removing the cover, with all screws in place and setting it all aside. I can open it all up in about 2 minutes, same for re-assembly. The large Gasket that goes around the large cover, I removed.........my call.
So you open it all up, then clean and wipe it all clean inside. Close it up. Then ride it a few miles, across town and back. Open up again and look CAREFULLY for the source of the oil leak. Repeat until found. Good luck.
 

·
I'm Retired
Joined
·
9,364 Posts
I'd love to see your pictures in a separate thread so we can find them later. I've known two people who have gotten an oil leak like you had. For those two people, to have access to what you did would be priceless.

Chris
 

·
I'm Retired
Joined
·
9,364 Posts
Taly's pictures of the damage. Click on an image to blow it up to 1024x768.

[attachment=0:3f21icgk]029.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=1:3f21icgk]028.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=2:3f21icgk]024.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=3:3f21icgk]023.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=4:3f21icgk]022.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=5:3f21icgk]021.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=6:3f21icgk]018.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=7:3f21icgk]017.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=8:3f21icgk]014.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=9:3f21icgk]013.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=10:3f21icgk]012.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk][attachment=11:3f21icgk]011.JPG[/attachment:3f21icgk]

Chris
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Chris,
Thank you for posting these pictures.

I think the first question should be the oil leak, which I assume is coming via the front spindle's bearing/seal. There is a divit at about 6-o'clock. Is changing this something I can do myself?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Anyone know if I can replace the bearing and seal myself? Any guess if the oil leak could be coming from any other place?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,787 Posts
taly,

I am going to post what I sent in my email of earlier today:

=========================================================================
In your photos I only see that the crankshaft seal is leaking, there are many ways to remove it--one of which being to drill two small hole in its perimeter (at the yellow dots in the photo below) then screw in two sheet metal screws. Grab the screws with a couple pairs of pliers and yank.



Use #8 x 1/2" screws and a 3/32" or 7/64" pilot hole. To install the new seal use a short length of PVC pipe with an OD that is the same size as the seal's OD (more or less) as a driver, or use a wood block tapping lightly around the seal's perimeter, until it sits flush with the crankcase as does the OEM seal.
=========================================================================

If the screws pull out before the seal give way just drill a couple more holes and do it again. When you get the seal out do not blow out the cavity with air as you would be pushing crap, including the little bit of swarf drilling the hole will create into the bearing. Instead use a small brush, like an acid brush, to bathe the bearing in motor oil, from the top down, let it just run off the bearing and out.

I would probably use a hook-type seal puller, like this:



however there is a acquired knack to that so as to not damage the shaft, and when new they always have absurdly sharp corners on the hook, the will dig into the shaft. You need to reduce the thickness of the hook, then radius and smooth its edges:



Even with that I always slide a piece of brass shim stock (0.020") in between the shaft and hook before using this type of puller. I don't think this would be a good job for you to learn the "knack", using the sheet metal screws is safer.

I forgot to speak to the "divot" at 6:00. That dig is in the seal's cup not the sealing surface, so it will not affect the seal's ability to do its thing. If when you pull the seal the ding has upset the seal's bore then use a utilty knife to shave off the slight bit of aluminum that got pushed upward. The seal will have a rubber coating on its OD that should take care of any issues a small ding like that could create, however if you wish to be over cautious use a small bit of hi-temp RTV on the seal's OD, and a very tiny bit in the bore, before you tap it in. Wipe the shaft's sealing surface and the rubber seal with a bit of motor oil before installation...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,177 Posts
I often put a small thin plastic bag over the shaft with a little grease on the seal
and shaft so that the seal pushes over the plastic bag and does not contact any
sharp or rough edges of the shaft, you can then eases the plastic bag out from
between the seal and shaft avoiding any damage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,787 Posts
A lot of the aftermarket automotive seals come with plastic sleeves to serve just that purpose. It made getting the rear main installed on my car a piece of cake...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Hello There Taly.........I have an altogether DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT that I wish to present to you. I saw some oil built up in certain corners higher up, above the crankshaft, and I know from my personal experience, that I (IN ADDITION TO AN ACTUAL LEAKY CRANKSHAFT OIL SEAL) ALSO had oil leaking from the engine above, and coming down thru the gasket, into this transmission housing that we are all looking inside of in these pictures.

ALL I AM SAYING IS, DO NOT ASSUME THE OIL IS COMING FROM THE CRANKSHAFT UNTIL YOU GATHER AND SEE ACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS THE CASE.......HOW TO DO THIS? I THINK IT IS REALLY SIMPLE. JUST CLEAN ALL THE OIL FROM THESE INTERIOR SURFACES, THEN TOP UP YOUR ENGINE OIL TO THE PROPER LEVEL, REASSEMBLE, AND RIDE IT 5 - 7 MILES TOTAL, ACROSS TOWN AND BACK. NOW TAKE IT APART, AND PLAY DETECTIVE.....VERY CAREFULLY LOOK FOR ANY OIL LEAKS. SAY TO YOURSELF, NOW WHERE EXACTLY IS THE OIL COMING FROM? .........REPEAT PROCESS UNTIL YOU FIGURE THIS OUT.

Good luck in tracking this down -JEFF
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Petaluma-Jeff said:
Hello There Taly.........I have an altogether DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT that I wish to present to you. I saw some oil built up in certain corners higher up, above the crankshaft, and I know from my personal experience, that I (IN ADDITION TO AN ACTUAL LEAKY CRANKSHAFT OIL SEAL) ALSO had oil leaking from the engine above, and coming down thru the gasket, into this transmission housing that we are all looking inside of in these pictures.

ALL I AM SAYING IS, DO NOT ASSUME THE OIL IS COMING FROM THE CRANKSHAFT UNTIL YOU GATHER AND SEE ACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS THE CASE.......HOW TO DO THIS? I THINK IT IS REALLY SIMPLE. JUST CLEAN ALL THE OIL FROM THESE INTERIOR SURFACES, THEN TOP UP YOUR ENGINE OIL TO THE PROPER LEVEL, REASSEMBLE, AND RIDE IT 5 - 7 MILES TOTAL, ACROSS TOWN AND BACK. NOW TAKE IT APART, AND PLAY DETECTIVE.....VERY CAREFULLY LOOK FOR ANY OIL LEAKS. SAY TO YOURSELF, NOW WHERE EXACTLY IS THE OIL COMING FROM? .........REPEAT PROCESS UNTIL YOU FIGURE THIS OUT.

Good luck in tracking this down -JEFF
Jeff,
Thanks for the input. Fortunately, there is no evidence of what you suggest. Once I get it back together, I'll check.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
My next question is the circ-clip which was missing from the HiT. Can I find one locally or should I get one from the manufacturer? I don't know how to get it in place, but I assume it's not too difficult -- does it require a special tool?

Then there are the variator and clutch plate gouges and belt. Repair, replace?

Then the ring which disintegrated. Replace it or leave it off?
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top