Suzuki Burgman USA Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I checked my manual and it states 10w-40 SF/SG is the oil that should be used in my 400K3. I went to Advanced Auto and looked at the automotive oils and everything was rated SM/SN. When I asked at the counter, the guy said he didn't know the differences between the grades but he had motorcycle oil. I checked it and sure enough, it was SF/SG grade so I got that (but haven't used it yet). My questions are, what are the differences, could I use SM/SN grade if they were out of motorcycle oil, and what should I look for if I wanted to use synthetic oil? Thanks for any help y'all can provide.
 

·
I'm Retired
Joined
·
9,364 Posts
Since you have a 400 and not a 650, you have a dry clutch. The motorcycle specific grades, I believe, are to keep from getting the friction modifiers onto the wet clutch plates most motorcycles have. The friction modifiers make the clutch plates to slippery. Bottom line, you can use any oil in the viscosity your engine requires. Putting in "motorcycle" oil, is just another way to spend more money for the same benefit.

I use Delo 400 Full Synthetic oil. Many others use the Shell Rotella. If you change it often, you probably can save some money by getting regular oil, since you won't be leaving it in long enough to really get the benefit (extended change interval for instance) of the full synthetic oil.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,787 Posts
I have been running Valvoline's 4-stroke motorcycle oil, 10W-40, from Walmart. Around $4.00 a quart last I knew, you only need 2 quarts so it's not a big deal. I am an oil change "nut", every 2500 miles/6 months in everything we own--my grandfather told me many years ago that "oil is cheaper than engines"...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
friedshrimp said:
I checked my manual and it states 10w-40 SF/SG is the oil that should be used in my 400K3. I went to Advanced Auto and looked at the automotive oils and everything was rated SM/SN. ...My questions are, what are the differences, could I use SM/SN grade if they were out of motorcycle oil
Your manual was printed years ago when SF/SG was the latest specification for additive packages and all the other performance criteria engine oils had to meet. Now the specs have progressed. Engines run hotter and faster, the demands on oil have become more severe and the specs have changed and are now up to SM/SN. You can use an SM/SN oil where your manual calls for SF/SG.
... and what should I look for if I wanted to use synthetic oil?
To simplify oil buying for consumers, synthoils carry the same rating designations as their petroleum counterparts. If you choose to stay with a 10/40 oil, you'll probably need to look for it in the cycle oil department as 10/40 is not a common weight for automotive synthoil.

As for the friction modifiers and wet clutches, any oil that carries the words "Energy Conserving" in the starburst logo on the bottle contains friction modifiers and shouldn't be used in wet clutches. Castrol GTX is one oil that doesn't contain modifiers and is still recommended by Suzuki for use with wet clutches. I use Mobil Delvac 1300 15/40 in place of 10/40 because I never lived in a location where the temperature got so cold (below 0 F) where it mattered whether the oil was 10- or 15/40. Delvac is specifically intended for diesel engines but has been found by many to be a superb cycle oil as well. I use it in my 400 Burgman in both the engine and the final drive.
 

·
I'm Retired
Joined
·
9,364 Posts
friedshrimp...everything DL-11 wrote is true. But just so you (or others later) don't get confused...you have a dry clutch, not a wet clutch.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks folks. What I picked up is exactly what cliffyk uses, Valvoline 4-stroke motorcycle oil, SF/SG, for $4.99 at Advanced Auto. In the future I'll check for it at Walmart to see if it's any cheaper there.

I do have one question now that is related to a couple of the answers. What does the clutch (whether wet or dry but thanks for letting me know the 400 has a dry clutch) have to do with motor engine oil???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,484 Posts
From wikipedia:
Wet vs. dry

A wet clutch is immersed in a cooling lubricating fluid which also keeps the surfaces clean and gives smoother performance and longer life. Wet clutches, however, tend to lose some energy to the liquid. Since the surfaces of a wet clutch can be slippery (as with a motorcycle clutch bathed in engine oil), stacking multiple clutch discs can compensate for the lower coefficient of friction and so eliminate slippage under power when fully engaged. The Hele-Shaw clutch was a wet clutch that relied entirely on viscous effects, rather than on friction.[1]

A dry clutch, as the name implies, is not bathed in liquid and should be, literally, dry.
Wet clutches expect a certain friction characteristic and 'energy conserving' oils tend to have additives to reduce firction. Inside the engine this is good. In a clutch this is bad. Fortunately, the AN400 owner neednot concern themselves with this.

On a side note, back when I had my C50, with its wet clutch, I was attentive to oil labels. I found that Castrol GTX in the 10W-30 five quart jugs was mostly 'energy conserving'. At that time, the 10W-40 was not. No longer a concern for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
First, I apologize for any confusion that came about because I included the "wet clutch" concerns in my previous posting. Didn't intend to muddy the waters where dry-clutch AN400s are concerned. That topic was also in the post I replied to and I just kept typing.

Rather than copy and paste long excerpts to the board, here are a couple of resources that will address your questions about auto vs. cycle oils:
"What does the clutch (whether wet or dry but thanks for letting me know the 400 has a dry clutch) have to do with motor engine oil???"
This link deals specifically with the friction modifiers in automotive oil. It specifically addresses the above question but it IS dated on the subject of ZDDP in oils.

This link explains the all the differences between what cars need and what cycles need from their oils. It explains why cycle oil haven't advanced beyond the SF/SG grade as well as addressing other mysteries. Scroll through it and pick what interests you.

This link covers EVERYTHING in about as much depth as possible without becoming a technical paper. I recommend this one to for the most comprehensive answers.

I've switched to 15W-40 diesel oils for motorcycle applications that ask for 10W40. The wear protection is excellent (often the best among motor oils tested0 and there are no concerns about friction modifiers. As long as the ambient temps don't drop down into the single digits, the difference on the cold pour point between the 2 seems to cause no difficulties.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,787 Posts
Many lower weight automotive grade oils contain friction modifier additives to make the oil "slipperier", and able to better meet the fuel economy related standards introduced in the SAE SJ classification specifications (which apply only to oils of 30 weight or lower--more about this below). These friction modifiers can interfere with the operation of the wet clutches used in many motorcycles, the 650 Burgman being one such example. The 400 has a dry clutch making the presence of the friction modifiers a moot point.

The S in the SJ standard stands for Spark ignition, I.e. gasoline fueled engines (there is also commonly available a Cx class, where the C stands for Compression ignition, I.e. Diesel engines). The second letter in the class specification is just a sequentially selected indicator, with SG being an earlier version of the class specification than SJ. The current active S classifications are SJ, SL, SM and SN--don't know what happens after SZ.

The SG standard was the last that did not require friction modifiers in oils of 30 weight or less, that is why the motorcycle industry has continued to make oils using the SF/SG standards.

Of note is that the SJ standard does not require friction modifiers in oils of greater than 30 weight--this includes single viscosity, and multiple viscosity oils where the "second number" is greater than 30--and as I understand many, if not most, motor oil vendors do not use them in their heavier oils.

One other issue with SJ and higher classed oils is that to meet the SJ standard, oils of 30 weight or less must have reduced levels of zinc and phosphorous, which in combination are a very effective anti-wear additive. They are also considered bad by environmentalists, the primary force behind the reduced levels called for by the SJ classification (and the friction modifier requirement). Once again however this only applies to oils of 30 weight or less, and again most manufacturers have not changed the levels of zinc and phosphorous in the heavier oils. Yet another reason for not running xW-20 or xW-30 in anything but a lawn mower...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,230 Posts
friedshrimp said:
I do have one question now that is related to a couple of the answers. What does the clutch (whether wet or dry but thanks for letting me know the 400 has a dry clutch) have to do with motor engine oil???
To really simplify the answer, on most motorcycles that have wet clutches the clutch is either inside the crankcase of the engine or has oil pumped from the crankcase of the engine to it like the 650 does. The oil wets the plates of the clutch. That means the type of oil has an effect on how the clutch works. You don't want an engine oil with friction modifiers that can make the clutch slip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Buffalo said:
friedshrimp said:
I do have one question now that is related to a couple of the answers. What does the clutch (whether wet or dry but thanks for letting me know the 400 has a dry clutch) have to do with motor engine oil???
To really simplify the answer, on most motorcycles that have wet clutches the clutch is either inside the crankcase of the engine or has oil pumped from the crankcase of the engine to it like the 650 does. The oil wets the plates of the clutch. That means the type of oil has an effect on how the clutch works. You don't want an engine oil with friction modifiers that can make the clutch slip.
Bingo! This is what I was looking for. I'm used to thinking about the way an automobile is set up where the clutch and the engine are completely separate components. It seems this is not the case (with wet clutches) in motorcycles. I would still like to thank everyone for their in-depth responses even though some went well over my head and into the stratosphere (for me)! :D It probably doesn't help that I'm a communications engineer by trade and not a mechanic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
The Burgman 650 has a wet clutch so I look for the MA designation on the synthetic oil I use.

On my Honda Forza 300 and the Burgman 400 they have dry clutches so I buy synthetic oil with the MB designation.

El Charro
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top