[Red Brown]

Hi,

I love my Burgman!!!

Currently looking for a good off-road automatic twist-go bike that has at least 100 cc. I found one Honda model only produced in Australia for the postal service called the CTX 110 (follow-up to the Honda CT 90 bike from the 1970s).

The Honda CT 110 is very reliable and has ample storage racks for riding over rough terrain. It is automatic with several low-range gears for hill climbing. Even though popular in Australia, US Honda dealers refuse to carry it for some particiular reason.

1986 Husqvarna 430 Automatic is another type but is no longer in production.....

I recently had hopes for the new Honda Ruckus 250 cc species, but it does allow for knobby tires to be installed and clearance is not high-enough for decent trail riding. I think the Ruckus 250 cc with adjustable height clearance plus knobby tire option would make this a versatile machine.

Any on-off road twist and go's or at least with high/low range. The early three wheelers from Honda had automatics plus the Honda CT 70, although it needs to have a few more ccs in the engine.

Any thoughts folks?

Red

 

[JD]

Kymco made up until this year, a scooter called the Cobra Cross. It seems to function fairly well off road. Also you may want to check out the Yumbo Roadpower 125. My boss took one to Colorado last summer and rode it up into the mountains with no problem. Check it out at http://www.modcycles.com It is a pretty nice scoot, with a retail of $1999.

 

[Randy]

It took a while but I got use to the "twist and go" of the scooter and now I love it.
But "twist and go" on a dirt bike :?:
I want clutch control -Well at least I think I want it. :?

 

[JD]

Offroad riding on a capable scooter is fun. I used to do it all the time with my Yamaha Zuma. Of course it was a tough scooter back then, about 1990. I always went trail riding along side the ATV's in my neighborhood. It was alot more fun on the Zuma than on my KX 125.

 

[Robert]

Hey Red - welcome to the forum!

What you want is a 2 wheel drive Rokon.

http://www.rokonron.com/

I've ridden one - and it crawled up and down the rough stuff as easily as my Montesa Cota did. Like my Cota - they aren't built for speed - but they'll go anywhere (and are very unique).

If you see a pair of blue Burgman's (a 400 and a 650) riding around Austin - it's probably my wife Ann and I.

 

[Rubble]

What you want is a 2 wheel drive Rokon.
I've ridden one - and it crawled up and down the rough stuff as easily as my Montesa Cota did. Like my Cota - they aren't built for speed - but they'll go anywhere (and are very unique).

Robert, I had the use of a Rokon for about 1 1/2 years that had the old Chrysler 2 stroke motor. Yup, it would go anywhere, slowly and with a cloud of smoke. I also had a Montessa Cota 348. I did a complete restoration on it, when it was done it was very close to showroom condition. I had a lot of fun on that beast and learned an awful lot about riding finesse. Unfortunately I was never able to do the bike justice.

 

[pauljo]

I was in at the local dealer recently. They carry all the Japanese brands.

They had a Big Rukus, and a original Ruckus. The little one had knobby tires, and looked like a miniature SUV. It doesn't have a lot of ground clearance, but for gravel roads and reasonably smooth dirt roads it would do OK, except that there isn't much engine there, and it is tiny.

Although I thought I'd like the Big Ruckus from the photos I'd seen, I was not at all impressed with it up close & personal. It is Land Rover, Hummer, ugly. The way they bolted on the front headlights couldn't be less attractive. If it was a real dual sport scooter, I'd embrace all that. But unlike it's little brother it has pure street tires. It is just a Helix/Reflex that has been uglied up. My Burgman 650 would be just as capable on a gravel road - probably more so due to it's larger wheels. About the only interesting features are the huge rear rack, and the huge rider's backrest that can fold down to be a passenger seat. And I sure wouldn't trade my underseat trunk for those.

I think it is a good example of a Honda design committee that went sideways. A real dual sport scooter would have been super cool, and I think they started out to do that. Then the wrong people won some design debates, and they ended up with a Big Ruckus that should have been re-named the "Big Mistake". It is just plain dumb.

For what it's worth, that is what went through my mind as I looked at it. I was very disappointed.

 

[Robert]

Hey Rubble -
do you know why they called it the 348? I had owned several 348cc motorcycles that were called 350's and thought it was neat that Monesta had called it the Cota 348 - until I realized it was 305.something cc... Mine was a 78 with lights and speedo that I bought in 80 - no restoration needed... I was living in the Republic of Panama at the time - and I used it to go where the roads didn't. Montesa also had a 349 which was 349.something cc's - go figure...
I had bought the Cota as an enduro, not even knowing what a trials bike was. As an enduro it was slow and twitchy on pavement - but I could ride it up things other people had trouble walking up. The 4 stroke Rokon I've ridden (owned by a friend), rode differently on the street - but still felt odd. It also rode totally different offroad, but it climbed things with the same ease. Getting used to 2 wheel drive takes a bit - like not turning the front wheel when climbing (it disengages the front drive). I would equate the feeling ofthe Rokon to a scooter not just because it's an automatic - but because I guess the fell of it reminds me of a scooter (wide tires, comfortable seat, mellow powerband)...

 

[Rubble]

Robert, Mine was a '78 as well with lights etc. it was actually 310cc. I heard once about the 348 designation but it slips my mind at the moment. Mine had Malcolm Rathmell's (6 time trials champ) signature embossed into the body work. The 349 was the next generation and used the engine as a stressed member and was a full 350cc I believe.
As you said the Rokon takes some getting used to. It is hard to get used to pointing the thing straight up an impossible hill and just sort of chugging up it. Far different than the screaming momentum needed with other dirt bikes.

 

[Robert]

Cool.

I think the signature model had a slightly different engine - my engine said 305cc on the barrel (of course - that doesn't mean it was really 305cc either!). The lights and speedo setup on mine looked like a regular enduro, but the only other 348's I've seen had either none - or had little removable add-ons (the speedo even rode on the fork leg instead of above the triple clamp). My Cota also had a larger seat than what I've seen anyone else have (more like a normal enduro seat). I used to collect Yamaha RD's, and I bought (and brought back) a 78 RD400 that looked normal until you parked it next to my other RD400.
I wonder if Montesa did an Enduro version of the Cota, and that was what mine was, or if it was just different from being from a different market?

Anyway - yeah, the Rokon's are pretty cool. I slid backwards down many a hill because I would get way up it and want to turn my handlebars a bit (the Cota liked it when I did that!). That would disengage the Rokon's front drive, and down I'd go. Just chugging straight up stuff, and the swinging footpegs were what took me a while to get used to.

 

[wasions]

It sounds to me like Montesa was maybe emulating Bultaco. The Alpina was for all accounts a Sherpa T with lights and (a little) taller gearing. A friend rode one in the '70's, when I was riding the Suzuki RL250 and a Penton 125. The Penton was called a 'Cafe-Motocross', but was really a trials bike with (again) a smaller chainring. I loved both bikes, and wish that similar rides could be purchased today. I'd gladly give up the DR350 to have my old RL250 Exacta, or even my Honda TLR200 Reflex again.

Steve

 

[Rubble]

Red,
Sorry for hijacking your thread, Robert and I might have to carry this on in the "All Others" section.

edit: oops this is the "All Others" section. I meant start our own thread.

 

[Pete]

I see a 500 thumper or a 650 twin automatic (variator/centrifical clutch set for "grab",).. 15 or 16 (or a combo) inch enduro type knobbies, skid plates (you'd need 'em with a scoot-cum-trail-bike) ....and some of the "just the facts maam" tubular bodywork like that stupid rukus thing, cept, have the now storage under the seat basically eliminated by the need for ground clearance (high engine placement) etc), attach some detachable storage bin thingies, include a comfy seat, and a much more robust exhaust system (yeah, right), and a longer-throw suspension system.

MAN thats a bad sentence!!! Where's the period!? :wink:

The only way it'd work is if the mfgr were to allow or afford "street or trail" accessorising (sp?). Otherwise you'll end up with a mini automatic street legal Enduro that doesn't "measure up".

 

[captainfish]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAA

I am starting to like you Pete.
And its not because you like bacon.... :?

Now, if that were available, do you realize how many people would then go off road. I know there are alot of women that don't go cycling because of the "big" bikes, loud noise, etc.

No.. I am not advocating making a sissy dirt bike (no pink versions please!!!) but..... hey, we got auto utility-tractors now. And those are the boss. Many of the quadrunners are now auto, and more and more are now coming out with an auto reverse gear.

nah, we aint' lazy or nuthin.....good for nuthin maybe.... but not lazy.

 

[Robert]

Do you want the traditional automatic transmission like the old Hondamatic, or a scooteresque constantly variable transmission (CVT)? I think the CVT's smoother ratio changing would work better for offroad use. What do the automatic Quads use? What did the husky use? I'm sure they had it pretty light.
I've ridden Triumph Tigers and Suzuki DL's, and the weight of a multi really takes away from trail riding. I'd say to use the Burgman 250 or 400 engine/transmission, but gear it down for slower speeds and more torque. Put fairly wide 18 inch wheels on it front and back, and give it a good bash plate (don't worry about getting the ground clearance up too high). Give it a good suspension, remove the fairing and painted bodywork - but save the storage space that can be saved.
The big adventure touring motorcycles that sell really well are not really offroad bikes - they'll get you to the lake in comfort and let ride out the dirt roads to it - but not do trails well. They are aimed at being freeway bikes that can handle dirt roads. With the offroad scooter go for the middle market of aimed at dirt road riding, but can handle trails and can handle roads (but not freeways). The Suzuki DR, Yamaha XT, Honda XR and Kawasaki KLR 250's all sell nicely in this niche. But there's nothing automatic, quiet, and comfortable. I think it would sell...

 

[Rubble]

Snipped:

="Robert"]What do the automatic Quads use?

Most automatic quads use a similar transmission to snowmobiles and scoots with the exception of Honda: (taken from the Canadian website)

Honda Automatic Transmission

* The automotive-style Honda automatic transmission features a hydraulic torque converter, three hydraulic clutches and an electronic control unit (ECU) to automatically select one of three forward gears and one reverse gear. The ECU monitors throttle opening, vehicle speed, engine rpm, gear selector position, brake application and engine oil temperature.
* The Honda automatic transmission shifts electronically-eliminating unsightly and trouble-prone vacuum lines-and features engine braking, unlike conventional belt-drive designs.
* The Honda automatic transmission features a filtration system to protect against external contamination. The compact and maintenance-free design means there are no belts to wear out and replace. Using multi-filtered engine oil as hydraulic fluid, the design also simplifies maintenance and ensures an adequate oil supply in all operating conditions.
* Electric Shift Program(r) (ESP(r)) allows the rider to manually select gears by simply pressing two push-buttons mounted on the left handlebar.
* A handlebar-mounted control switches the automatic transmission between ESP mode and automatic operation.

I've read that this transmission is very good and in fact I'm quite surprised that some form of it has not shown up in the likes of a shaft drive Silverwing, perhaps the next generation...

In the past, (I haven't kept up with the ATV market since I sold mine a few years ago) belt slippage was an isssue due to water infiltration. Just try a stay out of puddles and creeks when you're blasting through the great outdoors!

 

[mupp]

You can get automatic clutches for popular Honda and Yamaha dirtbikes, they just bolt on in replacement for the standard clutch.

http://www.rekluse.com/

They are great for tight woods riding, put an end to un-intentual stalls on long slippery down-hills caused by too much rear brake, and can still be bump-started by means of a manual locking device.
They aren't a true automatic gearbox though, you still have to stamp through the gears, they just take care care of the clutch.
I once rode one of the early Husky automatic dirtbikes in the 70's, which had the annoying habit of downshifting when it sensed no load on the transmission - hence going over a 4th gear jump had the auto transmission shifting you into 1st gear for the landing.... ouch!!


dave

 

[Red Eagle]

big rukus

Then the wrong people won some design debates, and they ended up with a Big Ruckus that should have been re-named the "Big Mistake". It is just plain dumb.

For what it's worth, that is what went through my mind as I looked at it. I was very disappointed.

And the worst part is that for the price of the 250cc Rukus you can buy a 400 Burgman :wink: It should not be priced anymore than the 250 Rebel :roll:

 

[CenTX Tom]

Honda CT110

Great little bike, they sold them through the late 80's in the US. I bought mine new from the dealer, an '84 in late '85. Was my first set of wheels, put over 10k miles on it, most at full throttle before a guy went through a stop sign in front of me and I T boned him, launching myself over the trunk of his car and killing my little red honda. The upside was I did spend more time in school after that. :wink:

105cc, 4 speed, dual range semi auto. Flat out 50 - 55mph, No cluch but you have to shift the gears. 8 forward speeds, but only 4 avalible at a time. The HI - LO range switch was under the trany and would get **** hot. (damhik) Honda thoughtfully put little marks to show the max speed in each gear in both high and low range on the face of the spedometer.

Single seat standard, a pillion pad and pegs were avalible. Two coolest things were the big lever under the handle bars that when you pulled up would let you rotate them independant of the front wheel. Perfect if you were going to carry the bike on a rack on an RV. The other super cool thing was the spare fuel tank that cliped to the right rear under the chrome luggage rack, held about 3/4 a gallon I think. Saved my butt more than once out in the hills around SoCal when the underseat 1.something gallon tank would go dry.