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Discussion Starter #1
I was just poking around the search engines seeing what I could find out about the 2013 650 when I came across this on Suzuki Japan's website, dated May 8 of this year:

http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/an650al2/index.html

(Their full lineup is here: Note the "NEW" icon beside the 650 ... http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/full_line/index.html)

I clicked on all of the links and saw (in this order on the following page) seat heaters, a 2-inch-travel adjustable backrest, and grip heaters:

http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/an650al2/detail1.html

Babylon, which did a so-so translation of the Japanese, revealed that the seat and grip heaters are STANDARD equipment. (There's a pic showing what I thought might be height-adjustable footrests too, but Babylon's translation revealed that they're just talking about the footrests being at the "optimum height" for most riders.)

BUT ...

Then I saw something that made me do a double-take. Clicking on the "CVT & ABS" link, I saw this:

http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/an650al2/detail2.html

Babylon translated the text about the CVT this way:

"Drive mode and help when driving climbing power mode, in addition to the Mitsubishi HEV Bus with six-speed manual mode selection is possible. The electronically-controlled CVT (SECVT * ) is used. In Manual mode, the left side of the handle bar UP/DOWN switch manual transmission and do the same for motorcycle touring and tandem riding in the sense that you enjoy. Strengthening of the belt CVT V aluminum alloy and the dry heat-resistant rubber belt Hybrid Motorcycle. high transmission efficiency and durability."

Isn't this a different belt than what's in the current 650?

Is this the 2013 model for the world market? Or is this what Japan got for 2012? I'm confused!
 

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The USA models do NOT get heated seats and grips, but other markets do.

The belt is the same one as old 650's.

Key looks to have an electronic chip imbedded. And the security gate part is at an angle.

Love to have the mirror air deflectors too.

But in the other model line ups are some GS400's with ABS. They need to import some more 250 and 400 cc bikes. EVERY ONE has a 600+ cc. I am in the market for a 300 - 400 cc 4 cylinder upright bike, not a GSXR type.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Aw cwap.

I just visited global suzuki.com and downloaded the 2012 brochure (dated November 2011), and I guess I'm all washed up. The seat heaters and grip heaters are for Canada and Europe only. And as for the belt, I guess it's always been that way -- but I always thought it was something more high-tech than aluminum-reinforced rubber. Oh well, my bad.

Maybe there really is a newfangled, completely different 2013 AN650 in the works ...
 

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Meadeball said:
Aw cwap.
And as for the belt, I guess it's always been that way -- but I always thought it was something more high-tech than aluminum-reinforced rubber. .
It's not aluminum reinforced rubber. The belt is made from aluminum links held together by two fiber loops coated with a rubber like substance. Only the aluminum links contact the pulleys. This pictures of the broken belt I took out of mine might help you visualize it. In the second picture you can see one of the links.



 

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Discussion Starter #5
That's what I thought I remembered seeing in posts when I was frequenting this site a few years ago. Well, go take a look at Suzuki's pic (albeit small) of the belt in my initial post above (here: http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/an650al2/detail2.html). Can you see why I was alarmed? It looks for all the world like just a standard rubber belt.
 

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I opened that picture in a separate page and zoomed it up to plus +400 in size. It's the same belt. When it is still in one piece it is difficult to distinguish the individual links in a picture that small.
 

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The 650 has been carefully tweaked throughout it's production run, so it doesn't seem likely a full redesign would be in order, especially if NA/Euro sales are weak. Unless the Integra/C650 are clearly stealing customers, NEW means more tweaking.

As a product, the big Burg has been well-thought out; improving it substantially is going to require major investment. That investment would be reflected in a higher BMW-style premium, which Suzuki knows people won't pay. If anything, the loudest concerns stem from CVT belt durability/maintenance (and paint colour choices). Simplifying access and a bump to 700cc might be possible. Maybe a few factory accessories too.
 

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Meadeball said:
I was just poking around the search engines seeing what I could find out about the 2013 650 when I came across this on Suzuki Japan's website, dated May 8 of this year:

http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/an650al2/index.html

Is this the 2013 model for the world market? Or is this what Japan got for 2012? I'm confused!

AN650AL1 = 2011
AN650AL2 = 2012
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for that info. I was kind of wondering what the system was like now. (My last experience with it was in the pre-2010 years ... I had a K7 Burgman 400.)

This "news" about a new model is making sense now. I live near what is purportedly the largest motorcycle store on the lower East Coast, Commonwealth Motorsports (previously Burcham's Cycles). They moved into a new building about two years ago, and it's the size of a freakin' Target store:



They ALWAYS have had at least one new 400 and 650 in the showroom. I was there Saturday and they had neither of 'em. I remember purchasing my K7 400 in August of 2006. Maybe these well-kept-secret 2013s are closer than we think.

BTW, here are a coupla pics of Commonwealth's 2-story showroom.




Those shots comprise about 1/2 of the showroom. Not shown are the ATV and watercraft areas.

Funny thing is, their store is next door to this other Target-sized store (try and guess which brand):


 

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I'm for incremental upgrades.


Flywheel said:
The 650 has been carefully tweaked throughout it's production run, so it doesn't seem likely a full redesign would be in order, especially if NA/Euro sales are weak. Unless the Integra/C650 are clearly stealing customers, NEW means more tweaking.

As a product, the big Burg has been well-thought out; improving it substantially is going to require major investment. That investment would be reflected in a higher BMW-style premium, which Suzuki knows people won't pay. If anything, the loudest concerns stem from CVT belt durability/maintenance (and paint colour choices). Simplifying access and a bump to 700cc might be possible. Maybe a few factory accessories too.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah, but I gotta tell ya ... for about two years I've been all set to save up my money and buy a new 650. Now, after reading all the stuff about a freakin' bolt causing irreparable damage to a vehicle that only has a good two or three years' travel on the odometer, and thinking of lopping down close to 10 large ones for a ticking time bomb, I'm starting to get weak-kneed. I was one of the (if not THE) first to buy a K7 400 and report the squeal problem here -- just search Meadeball up there at the top right and you'll find me immersed in dealer wars and factory contacts, swapped belts, and replacement clutch components way back in late 2006/early 2007. But now, after the passage of SIX MORE model years, we're still not sure whether they've solved the squeal/shuddering issue with the "new" transmission introduced more than half a decade ago. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth taking the "risk" of being among the first to invest in another Suzuki "improvement" -- maybe it'd be better to go ahead and buy a 2013 400, as long as it's not too much of a departure from the previous version (you know, BOTH big Burgies are up for a 2013 redesign), and maybe wait to see how the more expensive bike fares over a few model years before I take that plunge. I gotta tell ya, even though my heart is still with the Suzuki product, I don't know if I'll be able to enjoy a new 650 enough to overcome the constant worry of "how my bolt's doin'" and whether my bike will leave me stranded on that next ride out to the mountains.

If this kind of long-term "stabbing" at a known defect was occurring in the car market, NHTSA, Edmunds, Consumer Reports, Car & Driver and countless other outfits would've blacklisted not only that model, but the entire brand for being so noncommittal to quality. I cannot understand a modern company -- especially one headquartered in Japan, where people's family reputations are judged by their successes and failures in the business world -- could be so careless about getting something as simple as a scooter transmission right. It's not like scooters and belt-driven CVTs just appeared on the market last year. Hey Suzuki, anybody reading this? I'm about to say to hell with all the scooters anyway ... why take a chance on an ongoing R&D project when I can just buy a C50T touring cycle (for less than the price of an AN650) and have a bike I can ride for 10 years without worrying constantly about its drivetrain exploding beneath my butt?

Suzuki needs to get its act together. C'mon, guys. 2013 marks the tenth anniversary for these products. How about one that works as advertised?
 

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Replace the bolt early and often, if that concerns you. It's cheap.
If memory serves, you don't even have to remove any Tupperware to get at it.

The known Mean Time Between Failure for the ECVT belt is over 50K miles.
Unless you plan to put more than 5K miles/year on yours, the belt may well last 10 years.

Worry if you want. I don't.
 

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Ah, but what I mean by incremental design are things like Suzuki working a solution to get the CVT out without dropping the power module and things like that.

I'd consider a new 650 ONLY if they made the CVT serviceable in upcoming models. They don't have to necessarily make it more robust, just serviceable in say, 2 hours.

My loathing of CVT failure is 1% the failure itself and 99% thinking of the 1-2 weekends lost repairing it - if I want to keep the dang thing at that point. I'll tell ya, if it happens to me when my bike's worth 2-3k, I'll be thinking hard about just parting it out once I get it stripped down. You can get 1-2k outta parts. Put that money towards a new bike.

I wouldn't buy a brand new off the shelf design from any manufacturer, ever. That's quite foolish, in my eyes.
 

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Meadeball said:
... why take a chance on an ongoing R&D project when I can just buy a C50T touring cycle (for less than the price of an AN650) and have a bike I can ride for 10 years without worrying constantly about its drivetrain exploding beneath my butt?
As a former rider of said bike, you might want to visit http://www.volusiariders.com and do a search on "using oil", "timing chain", or valve adjustment. That model has it own questions regarding reliability after 50K and looking at $2K+ in repairs at that point unless you become the C50 version of LeDude at which point it becomes, you guessed it, about a $1200, couple of weeks, job.

Typical maintenance schedule for the C50 = valve adjustment every 7.5K and to get to the point of making the adjustment you have to disassemble the bike in a manner not dissimilar to removing the tupperware. Same ignition switch power issues. There are questions that come up about the drive train and stripping out splines. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. Average tire life around 10K. I found a brand (Kenda Kruz) that got me 18-19K so tires were an annual event for me. I'm really hoping to do the same on the Burg since tire changes are a PITA but we'll see. The new Michelins might hold promise.

I bought a Burgman specifically with an eye towards self servicability since I'm going to be putting around 18K miles per year on the bike. If you want relative security regarding durability, get a beemer (for right around $20K). But then, on their forums, you'll hear the inevitable maintenance issues.

I ride because I have an hour commute everyday and I can't imagine doing it in a cage. I really like riding and every time I've had significant commutes I've ridden bikes. To the tune of around 200K+ miles over 8 years. 2 wheels offers a slight improvement in cost per mile but not what you might expect and mostly because of the fuel cost. The basic cost of ownership (capital purchase, consumables, maintnenace, but leaving out fuel) for an econo-cage is very comparable if not somewhat less expensive than a bike. I think the rubber band Burgman might be one of the best values out there for serious commuting (especially NOS/used specimens. New current model year, not so much). But if you have to do the commuting thing, I've never ever heard of anyone wearing a Corolla grin, or a Fusion grin, or a <name your econo-barge here> grin. Just gotta like riding.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I've never ever heard of anyone wearing a Corolla grin, or a Fusion grin, or a <name your econo-barge here> grin. Just gotta like riding.
Well, my cage is a 2005 Mazda3 5-speed. Gotta disagree with you there. Mazdas indeed give grins! :)



I must admit that prior to a week or so ago, it had been about two months since I'd been here in the forums. Tell me, regulars, has there been ANY news from ANY source about these 2013 redesigns? Back in 2006, the new K7 400 redesign came out in very early August. I believe I purchased mine around August 5. Here it is going into late August now. I spoke with the sales manager at my bike shop yesterday and he has heard NOTHING about the 2013s -- not even an "official" word on a redesign. That seems weird. At least back in 2006 they knew as early as mid-summer that the K7s would be redesigned. Anyone know anything at all?

Frankly it may be another year before I'm ready to make a purchase, so if there indeed is a redesign for 2013, I probably won't be able to dive in until the '14s are out. By then we should know what's been changed in the new model and get some kind of feeling from the "beta testers" both here and abroad whether there are any glaring issues.

I really couldn't help how things worked out with my last purchase. I hadn't owned a scooter since the 1990s, I went shopping, and it just so happened that the 400 was coming out as a redesign. I figured it was an update to an already proven design -- in fact that's what the Suzuki store guys told me -- so I figured I was getting the latest gadgetry paired with a proven design -- not, as it turned out, Suzuki's not-so-ready stab at a brand-new, untested bike. Oh well, live and learn. I learned!
 

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MJR said:
Meadeball said:
I was just poking around the search engines seeing what I could find out about the 2013 650 when I came across this on Suzuki Japan's website, dated May 8 of this year:

http://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/an650al2/index.html

Is this the 2013 model for the world market? Or is this what Japan got for 2012? I'm confused!

AN650AL1 = 2011
AN650AL2 = 2012
It looks like the one I have in my garage. 2012 Burgman 650 Exec. "Skywave" does sound cool though. :)
 

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The pic looks just like my 2011 (even the same color).

Bill
 

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I am just totally amazed at the size of those shops! My good friend just built a brand new Yamaha Store and it isn't even 1/8 that size. There are more bikes in the showroom then in the state of Wisconsin! WOW!
 
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