Hey guys check out this new scooter that Ymaha just introduced in Japan. It sort of looks **** an updated Helix or Fusion as they like to call it in the land of the rising sun. Oh, heres the link, http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/mc/lineup/sc ... index.html Ya think we'll ever see this one in the USA?
New Yamaha scooter
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Welcome to the BurgmanUSA forums Mr. Mean. Glad to have you join us.
It looks like Yamaha is trying to compete with the Honda Helix/Fusion. As I understand it, the Helix is very popular in Japan. It's possible, but I think not likely, that we'll see it here in the USA as the Helix is not as popular as the Refllex/Burgman/Majesty style bikes.
It looks like Yamaha is trying to compete with the Honda Helix/Fusion. As I understand it, the Helix is very popular in Japan. It's possible, but I think not likely, that we'll see it here in the USA as the Helix is not as popular as the Refllex/Burgman/Majesty style bikes.
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I think they could have done better with the body design at the front. The rest of it is pretty slick. The windscreen is very short like the Burgman 400 Type S. Not necessarily a bad thing - it is better sometimes to have your helmet fully in the wind than being slapped by dirty air off of a bad windscreen. I'd have to see it for real to determine if I could live with that front design.
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Billmeek hit the nail on the head. Honda has almost equaled sales of their top selling Japan only 2004/5 Forza (Reflex) 250 with their Fusion (Helix). The latter of which is available for about 15% less than the Forza, and is of great financial reward to Honda as the development costs were recouped for this machine some 15 years ago. So each one they sell gives them very high margin returns. It has had no competition in this cruiser scooter market - until now. The Maxam was exhibited at the Tokyo motorshow a couple of years ago or so.
New is not best in a style conscious market - 'cool' is best, and the odd and quirky Fusion/Helix is THE definition of cool in Tokyo at the moment, and for the last few years. Whether the Maxam does well or not depends on how good it looks next to a Fusion XX (factory custom). I think it will do well, but that Fusion will still lead it in the sales charts. The Fusion has taken the Honda logo onto t-shirts that can be bought in trendy fashion label shops, and sells to people who have never ridden in their lives but want to look cool. Similarly, the power of cool has taken many trendies into motorcycling with the sole aim of riding a Fusion.
The Maxam is a 250cc single 4 stroke, much like the Fusion/Helix. It is long and low, just like the Fusion/Helix. It has a digital speedo just like the Fusion/Helix. It has a short screen just like the Fusion X. It has a rear trunk – unique to the Fusion/Helix. Getting the picture..?
No comparisons should be made with the AN250/400 or Majesty or Reflex 250, as this is aimed at the style conscious as opposed to the spec conscious, technophiles, commuters, or the journeymen. It is designed with fair weather city use in mind, possibly with some short one-day touring thrown in – all at speeds below 60mph, and with rider + passenger wearing non-motorcycle specific clothing and tiny helmets.
It looks good. It is interesting that Yamaha clearly didn’t underestimate the idiosyncratic ‘cool’ power of the Fusion/Helix’s trunk. The Maxam also has a standard underseat trunk – great for convenience of access, etc. However, they made sure that they included a Fusion/Helix style car like rear trunk, which is one of its truly odd and quirky designs – and most popular.
Good luck to them. Whatever sales they do make they will need – as they’ve got to recoup the development costs that Honda does not whilst selling it at a price no more than Honda pitches it’s 20 year old Fusion/Helix at…
Translated web page information on Maxam:
Yamaha Maxam page translated via Google
Lycheed
New is not best in a style conscious market - 'cool' is best, and the odd and quirky Fusion/Helix is THE definition of cool in Tokyo at the moment, and for the last few years. Whether the Maxam does well or not depends on how good it looks next to a Fusion XX (factory custom). I think it will do well, but that Fusion will still lead it in the sales charts. The Fusion has taken the Honda logo onto t-shirts that can be bought in trendy fashion label shops, and sells to people who have never ridden in their lives but want to look cool. Similarly, the power of cool has taken many trendies into motorcycling with the sole aim of riding a Fusion.
The Maxam is a 250cc single 4 stroke, much like the Fusion/Helix. It is long and low, just like the Fusion/Helix. It has a digital speedo just like the Fusion/Helix. It has a short screen just like the Fusion X. It has a rear trunk – unique to the Fusion/Helix. Getting the picture..?
No comparisons should be made with the AN250/400 or Majesty or Reflex 250, as this is aimed at the style conscious as opposed to the spec conscious, technophiles, commuters, or the journeymen. It is designed with fair weather city use in mind, possibly with some short one-day touring thrown in – all at speeds below 60mph, and with rider + passenger wearing non-motorcycle specific clothing and tiny helmets.
It looks good. It is interesting that Yamaha clearly didn’t underestimate the idiosyncratic ‘cool’ power of the Fusion/Helix’s trunk. The Maxam also has a standard underseat trunk – great for convenience of access, etc. However, they made sure that they included a Fusion/Helix style car like rear trunk, which is one of its truly odd and quirky designs – and most popular.
Good luck to them. Whatever sales they do make they will need – as they’ve got to recoup the development costs that Honda does not whilst selling it at a price no more than Honda pitches it’s 20 year old Fusion/Helix at…
Translated web page information on Maxam:
Yamaha Maxam page translated via Google
Lycheed
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I was looking thru some sites in Japan for customized scooters and ran across a page of Japanese ladies with their custom scoots. I noticed fewer Skywaves (Burmans) that I expected... and the ones there were 400 Type S. The site is :
http://www.zokeisha.co.jp/scooter/sexxxim/member.html
http://www.zokeisha.co.jp/scooter/sexxxim/member.html
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What a bunch of cute little faces....cheers my early morn wake up!
And the scoots ain't bad either. :evil:
And the scoots ain't bad either. :evil:
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Billmeek, you are a man with your finger on the pulse of the Japanese big-scooter market. A far cry from Clearview screens, corbin seats, and heated vests...
Teenage or very early twenties, clerks/free-timers/students, yet spending $7000 on a bike. Quite a different market to the US, wouldn't you agree?
As I mentioned in another post somehwere else, Suzuki does not sell many Skywave (Burgman) non-Type S models in Japan. They only sell Type S - and they have always trailed in the salescharts behind the Majesty ('MAJAY' in colloquial speak) and the Forza (Relfex). And by the way, there is not a AN400 Type S in sight here - these are all 250cc machines.
I'll have #003 and #021...
...and #038 and #049.:wink:
Teenage or very early twenties, clerks/free-timers/students, yet spending $7000 on a bike. Quite a different market to the US, wouldn't you agree?
As I mentioned in another post somehwere else, Suzuki does not sell many Skywave (Burgman) non-Type S models in Japan. They only sell Type S - and they have always trailed in the salescharts behind the Majesty ('MAJAY' in colloquial speak) and the Forza (Relfex). And by the way, there is not a AN400 Type S in sight here - these are all 250cc machines.
I'll have #003 and #021...
...and #038 and #049.:wink:
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In England they wouldn't be able to a) afford a sportsbike, and b) insure it; so they'd probably be driving a car and pouring through sportsbike magazines, dreaming about how they want to 'get their knee down'. Less wise individuals swallow a 5 year loan, buy the sportsbike, and struggle to use to effectively on public roads.billmeek said:
Bingo. Whilst there are also a few Majesty 125s there, too (easier for 40kg girls to handle) the 250 market is their 'core business' - the 400 market is a 'value-add', largely for the world market. 250s are the most popular displacement largely due to the fact that the up to 400cc license is easiet/quicket/cheapest ($2000 as opposed to $3000 for the large cc licenses) to pass, and because 250cc machines are not subject to the strict (expensive) vehicle inspections that take many 399cc+ vehicles off the road in Japan after only a few years.billmeek said:
The AN400 is an AN250 with a bigger engine, as is the Majesty 250/400. With this in mind, it may also make sense now why the Type S took 2 years to be released in AN400 form, even in Japan - they simply weren't selling enough to justify it. The AN250 Type S was quickly released a couple months after the 2002 debut when standard AN250s gathered dust in bike shops whilst buyers traded in their 1960s British style nakeds, sportsbikes, and 100cc scooters, and flocked in droves to buy Majesty Cs (factory custom) and Forzas.
Arguably, the 2000 Forza is the machine that has shaped big-scooters into what we see today - not simply comfortable city transport for the odd, but stylish transport for the trendy. The current AN250/400 has abody modelled on it, the new Majesty has an instrument panel lifted straight from it, and many customisers offer rear fin kits that mirror the rear spoiler on the 2000 Forza still today. Interestingly, the 2004/5 Forza has lost both of those styling attributes, and has stolen the seat from the Majesty...
Main problem for the AN250/400 in Japan is that it is large, and the weight is carried high compared to the Forza or old Majesty - which is still on sale. It's a shame, as after the Honda Fusion/Helix, it was Suzuki that revived the big-scooter concept with the Skywave/Burgman 250. The new Majesty - Grand Majesty - is not selling that well either, due to its bulk. Both Yamaha and Suzuki are banking on world sales picking up for big scooters - as they are now building 250/400cc machines almost too big for Japanese. Well, before you put a $750 lowered suspension kit on them. Japanese are serial customisers, so no grave problem there.
The new Majesty probably sells as well as the Silverwing – which is no coincidence as they are pitched at the same market: fashion conscious 25-35 year old men, commuters, and budget conscious Journeymen. Funny that Yamaha is playing catch-up to Honda in both the 250 cruiser scooter market and the all-purpose 399cc+ scooter market. ‘Let the games begin’.
This is how the Silverwing looks in the hands of a trendy 20 something:
Silverwing Images via Google
Not a million miles away from the Grand Majesty’s on the link you posted earlier.
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Lycheed, you're one hell of a wordsmith.
Wish you could do "a dissection" on the mindset of the southeastern US person that likes NASCAR, hates F1, and wouldn't be caught dead on a "scooter!" :roll: I.e. ME!!?? :lol:
20-sumpthins 'round here don't want no dayum "scooter" - they want PIZZAZ! VA-WOOM!! VA-WOOM!! As it may be with young Japanese or European scooterists, it is not so here in the US (Our kids, in general are all affected to one degree or another,
).
Middle-agers (such as myself) could be reluctant to "succumb" to stigma of the "no-shifting-required-I-need-a-lil-rascal-walker-thing" to just ambulate envelope that seemingly is analogized with these conveyances.
Elders, usually, are just above alla that stuff and simply dig it's (scooters) ease of use and affordance of wind-through-the-gills grins.
Just thought I'd feed back. Japan and the US might as well be on two different planets.
Wish you could do "a dissection" on the mindset of the southeastern US person that likes NASCAR, hates F1, and wouldn't be caught dead on a "scooter!" :roll: I.e. ME!!?? :lol:
20-sumpthins 'round here don't want no dayum "scooter" - they want PIZZAZ! VA-WOOM!! VA-WOOM!! As it may be with young Japanese or European scooterists, it is not so here in the US (Our kids, in general are all affected to one degree or another,
).Middle-agers (such as myself) could be reluctant to "succumb" to stigma of the "no-shifting-required-I-need-a-lil-rascal-walker-thing" to just ambulate envelope that seemingly is analogized with these conveyances.
Elders, usually, are just above alla that stuff and simply dig it's (scooters) ease of use and affordance of wind-through-the-gills grins.
Just thought I'd feed back. Japan and the US might as well be on two different planets.
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498 Posts
Pete, I think you do a pretty good dissection yourself. :wink:
I think you are absolutely right that the different markets may as well be on differing planets. With this in mind, it's clear that the manufacturers have their work cut out in eliminating cost from their businesses by producing 'world bikes' as opposed to machines for one locality only (as they have done previously) as the differing markets vary so much in their demands.
The Type S thing is a case study for this - many of the forum members here see the short screen and black wheels and think it looks cheap and silly. Japanese wouldn't urinate on a standard AN250/400 if it was on fire. Interestingly, Europeans sit in the middle: Northern Europeans preferring to have Type S style with silver or subdued paint; Southern European preferring to have sporty style in bolder colours - but with carbon and other materials replacing the exposed metal/chrome that the Japanese like.
Suzuki tried to build in all market adaptability to the 650 - with great success in my opinion. They've given it a basic Type S flavour (short-ish screen, black trim, black exhaust) whilst giving it a more sensible flavour for the more sensible amongst us (silver wheels, chrome exhaust shield as option, large passenger backrest, larger screens as standard in NA/EU). If you have a white Japanese model, all you need do is fit the optional backrest and paint the wheels black, and you've essentially got a Type S 650. Thank you Suzuki. 8)
It's tough getting it right in all markets - dare I say **** near impossible. So, let's not be too hard on them when all aspects of the package don't quite match our preferences.
I think you are absolutely right that the different markets may as well be on differing planets. With this in mind, it's clear that the manufacturers have their work cut out in eliminating cost from their businesses by producing 'world bikes' as opposed to machines for one locality only (as they have done previously) as the differing markets vary so much in their demands.
The Type S thing is a case study for this - many of the forum members here see the short screen and black wheels and think it looks cheap and silly. Japanese wouldn't urinate on a standard AN250/400 if it was on fire. Interestingly, Europeans sit in the middle: Northern Europeans preferring to have Type S style with silver or subdued paint; Southern European preferring to have sporty style in bolder colours - but with carbon and other materials replacing the exposed metal/chrome that the Japanese like.
Suzuki tried to build in all market adaptability to the 650 - with great success in my opinion. They've given it a basic Type S flavour (short-ish screen, black trim, black exhaust) whilst giving it a more sensible flavour for the more sensible amongst us (silver wheels, chrome exhaust shield as option, large passenger backrest, larger screens as standard in NA/EU). If you have a white Japanese model, all you need do is fit the optional backrest and paint the wheels black, and you've essentially got a Type S 650. Thank you Suzuki. 8)
It's tough getting it right in all markets - dare I say **** near impossible. So, let's not be too hard on them when all aspects of the package don't quite match our preferences.
Customized maxam
Hey everybody, check out these customized maxams form the Tokyo Motorcycle show http://response.jp/issue/2005/0408/article69552_1.html
Man they don't waste any time customizing thease scooters do they! I whish we could get some of thes cool aftermarket items here in the USA 8) With the sales of scooters increasing here in the US, I think Yamaha should bring this model over.
Hey everybody, check out these customized maxams form the Tokyo Motorcycle show http://response.jp/issue/2005/0408/article69552_1.html
Man they don't waste any time customizing thease scooters do they! I whish we could get some of thes cool aftermarket items here in the USA 8) With the sales of scooters increasing here in the US, I think Yamaha should bring this model over.
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