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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any real news or even rumors about reasonably sized (250ccs or more) scooters coming to the US? Honda and Suzuki are you listening?
 

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Just the Yamaha Xmax , the Kymco X-Town 300i and the Piaggio BV350 s far as I'm aware.
 
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Beemer has a 2021 sixfiddy sposed to be for sale in U.S. for about $11,000.00 providing you are willing to put up with bmw policies about maintenance, and an abs system that has a "questionable" master cylinder / controller problem.

also an electric here in the states, the c evolution. it might be okay for some people.
 

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Some ABS systems you need to take back to the dealer to have the brakes bled. I know my friends Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 needs to be done at the dealer. I attached a picture of the service department seeing you bring your bike in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Beemer has a 2021 sixfiddy sposed to be for sale in U.S. for about $11,000.00 providing you are willing to put up with bmw policies about maintenance, and an abs system that has a "questionable" master cylinder / controller problem.

also an electric here in the states, the c evolution. it might be okay for some people.
doe it have THE Chinese (Taiwan) engine?
 

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I think the BMW 650 has a real China made engine now. Kymco is not making them last I heard.
 

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I think the BMW 650 has a real China made engine now. Kymco is not making them last I heard.
Dave I found this on the BMW Scooters.com forum from 2018 here is the link. What's The Deal?


"The BMW-designed engine, drive train, frame, etc. are built and assembled in the Lonchin factory in China under KYMCO's supervision. The entire bike's major sub-assemblies and components are ASSEMBLED in Germany so are "German-Made". There had been problems with leaking gaskets, defective seals and porous block castings where the engines were irreparable and had to be replaced completely under warranty, as oil was leaking out through the solid SIDE of the engine crankcase.

Most of these faults were in the first few years' production, but were frustrating to say the least and sales in hyper-competitive Europe lagged well behind all the competition.

Quality control was initially so bad that after the big roll-out to the press in November of 2012, BMW delayed deliveries until February 2013 to address all the most glaring shortcomings. The current crop of scooters from 2017-on are much better, but that's after years of customer complaints and multiple recalls/warranty issues. When the new Sport came out in 2017, with much better looks, fit & finish, suspension settings, clutch and variator calibration and lower gearing, the press and consumers said "WOW, why didn't you do this to begin with, this is a great bike now!".

Even when they were forced to repair things, like the defective cam chain tensioners that had poorly-tempered springs which snapped, the responsible subcontractors still cheaped-out, and instead of redesigning the tensioner completely with a non-return expansion ratcheting mechanism that would keep it taking-up slack permanently after expanding incrementally, they just put in a "better" spring. It cost Jaime his ENGINE. That's what I mean by Lonchin QC.:(

Everyone cuts corners on their products to maximize profit, but hopefully not at the expense of reliability. Or, a product has unforeseen design flaws/weak spots that show up later. When they started racing the crap out of Tmaxes, they had bearing seizures at the front main bearing...not enough oil flow for racing conditions. So, Yamaha increased the size of the oil feed journals to that bearing and through the crank and commensurately increased the capacity of the oil pump.

Honda, after they introduced the NC700 line of bikes, due to complaints of too much "perceived vibration", COMPLETELY redesigned the engine, adding a SECOND balancing shaft, and while they were at it stroked the motor from 700cc to 745cc, adding more torque, horsepower and increased mileage. Not from any failures or warranty issues, but complaints. (But, as we are ignorant here, kept offering us ONLY the 700 motor until this year...) THAT is a responsive manufacturer who is playing the Long Game and not just looking to recoup their development $$$ ASAP. Honda reliability in cars, bikes, lawn mowers, generators, you name it, is the Industry Standard. Others, not so much...

KYMCO came out with their AK550 after doing ALL the homework. They looked at the crappy stock exhausts that EVERYONE had (until HONDA and BMW upgraded in 2017 and YAMAHA did so in 2018) and made over ONE THOUSAND prototype modifications until the exhaust system SOUND was PERFECT. That's OCD!!!

Now, they review all three bikes together, the Tmax 530, BMW C650 Sport and KYMCO AK 550, and the results in the reviews in Spain, Italy, France and elsewhere are usually:

1.) highway / touring use...BMW gets the nod
2.) city riding and blasting through the twisties...nothing touches the KYMCO
3.) overall usage...the Yamaha still sets the standard

That's after 17 YEARS of Tmaxes, 6 YEARS of BMWs....and KYMCO out of the BOX? KYMCO learned from BMW's missteps, obviously. As they say, you only get ONE chance to make a First Impression. (Oh, and the KYMCO is more than $2,000 LESS than the others...)

Where does that leave us? The Tmax was brought back from 2015-2016, and they marketed it in the SAME idiot fashion as 2009-2011. Result? There are STILL unsold Asphalt-Colored 2015 Tmaxes at Yamaha dealers, at $2,000+ discounts.

KYMCO just started importing the Xciting 400i ABS to the US which had KILLED all the competition in Europe for 5 years. Its 350cc replacement is showing up now over there, along with the flagship AK 550. As they have a very SKETCHY distribution network in the US, I doubt if we will see the AK 550. And, they don't NEED our sales, thank you very much.:rolleyes:

So, BMW WINS by DEFAULT!!! You want a Twin Sport Maxi Scooter? The Burgman 650 and (discontinued) Silverwing 600 aren't it, the Tmax 530 is gone AGAIN and KYMCO isn't playing.

(Oh, wait, HONDA has the NC750 DCT. H-m-m-m, interesting....) "
 

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honda has the nc750 dct,,, yup, but they're not sharing, or they're keeping them in a warehouse with the ufo's or uas' s or whatever they're called now
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dave I found this on the BMW Scooters.com forum from 2018 here is the link. What's The Deal?


"The BMW-designed engine, drive train, frame, etc. are built and assembled in the Lonchin factory in China under KYMCO's supervision. The entire bike's major sub-assemblies and components are ASSEMBLED in Germany so are "German-Made". There had been problems with leaking gaskets, defective seals and porous block castings where the engines were irreparable and had to be replaced completely under warranty, as oil was leaking out through the solid SIDE of the engine crankcase.

Most of these faults were in the first few years' production, but were frustrating to say the least and sales in hyper-competitive Europe lagged well behind all the competition.

Quality control was initially so bad that after the big roll-out to the press in November of 2012, BMW delayed deliveries until February 2013 to address all the most glaring shortcomings. The current crop of scooters from 2017-on are much better, but that's after years of customer complaints and multiple recalls/warranty issues. When the new Sport came out in 2017, with much better looks, fit & finish, suspension settings, clutch and variator calibration and lower gearing, the press and consumers said "WOW, why didn't you do this to begin with, this is a great bike now!".

Even when they were forced to repair things, like the defective cam chain tensioners that had poorly-tempered springs which snapped, the responsible subcontractors still cheaped-out, and instead of redesigning the tensioner completely with a non-return expansion ratcheting mechanism that would keep it taking-up slack permanently after expanding incrementally, they just put in a "better" spring. It cost Jaime his ENGINE. That's what I mean by Lonchin QC.:(

Everyone cuts corners on their products to maximize profit, but hopefully not at the expense of reliability. Or, a product has unforeseen design flaws/weak spots that show up later. When they started racing the crap out of Tmaxes, they had bearing seizures at the front main bearing...not enough oil flow for racing conditions. So, Yamaha increased the size of the oil feed journals to that bearing and through the crank and commensurately increased the capacity of the oil pump.

Honda, after they introduced the NC700 line of bikes, due to complaints of too much "perceived vibration", COMPLETELY redesigned the engine, adding a SECOND balancing shaft, and while they were at it stroked the motor from 700cc to 745cc, adding more torque, horsepower and increased mileage. Not from any failures or warranty issues, but complaints. (But, as we are ignorant here, kept offering us ONLY the 700 motor until this year...) THAT is a responsive manufacturer who is playing the Long Game and not just looking to recoup their development $$$ ASAP. Honda reliability in cars, bikes, lawn mowers, generators, you name it, is the Industry Standard. Others, not so much...

KYMCO came out with their AK550 after doing ALL the homework. They looked at the crappy stock exhausts that EVERYONE had (until HONDA and BMW upgraded in 2017 and YAMAHA did so in 2018) and made over ONE THOUSAND prototype modifications until the exhaust system SOUND was PERFECT. That's OCD!!!

Now, they review all three bikes together, the Tmax 530, BMW C650 Sport and KYMCO AK 550, and the results in the reviews in Spain, Italy, France and elsewhere are usually:

1.) highway / touring use...BMW gets the nod
2.) city riding and blasting through the twisties...nothing touches the KYMCO
3.) overall usage...the Yamaha still sets the standard

That's after 17 YEARS of Tmaxes, 6 YEARS of BMWs....and KYMCO out of the BOX? KYMCO learned from BMW's missteps, obviously. As they say, you only get ONE chance to make a First Impression. (Oh, and the KYMCO is more than $2,000 LESS than the others...)

Where does that leave us? The Tmax was brought back from 2015-2016, and they marketed it in the SAME idiot fashion as 2009-2011. Result? There are STILL unsold Asphalt-Colored 2015 Tmaxes at Yamaha dealers, at $2,000+ discounts.

KYMCO just started importing the Xciting 400i ABS to the US which had KILLED all the competition in Europe for 5 years. Its 350cc replacement is showing up now over there, along with the flagship AK 550. As they have a very SKETCHY distribution network in the US, I doubt if we will see the AK 550. And, they don't NEED our sales, thank you very much.:rolleyes:

So, BMW WINS by DEFAULT!!! You want a Twin Sport Maxi Scooter? The Burgman 650 and (discontinued) Silverwing 600 aren't it, the Tmax 530 is gone AGAIN and KYMCO isn't playing.

(Oh, wait, HONDA has the NC750 DCT. H-m-m-m, interesting....) "
Very well researched and written. trying not to be disloyal but I want the Honda 750 Adv. even if it costs $13,500 and I'm never going off road with it.
 

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Them adventure bikes got a seat height that'd smack the nads on a tall giraffe, and it'd hafta be wearin swmbo's "workin shoes" to flat foot it at a light. (should come with a boarding ladder or gangway of some kind)

(Admin edit to make a little more PC, Dang Marines.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Them adventure bikes got a seat height that'd smack the nads on a tall giraffe, and it'd hafta be wearin swmbo's "workin shoes" to flat foot it at a light. (should come with a boarding ladder or gangway of some kind)

(Admin edit to make a little more PC, Dang Marines.)
I'm 6'1" no sweat here and love the air bladder seat cushions.
 

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I just bought a 2020 Burgman 400 this week. I wanted a 650 but there aren't any left. I'm upgrading from the ill-fated Forza 300. Here's what I found when researching the market:

BMW has pulled the 650 from the US market. While there have been rumors that it will reappear at some future date with a new design and hopefully a better solution than a chain-drive and $1,500/per service oil bath BMW hasn't made any official announcements about if or when it will return to the US. For 2022 they will sell you the C400GT for an eye-watering $9,890! They also have their new CD 05 electric out for a mere $12,000. Have heard that they will not be making anymore, "...dinosaur juice powered city scooters from now on". (starts at :44) but I haven't been able to verify that or what it means exactly - does that only apply to Europe? is the C650GT a city scooter or something else?

Suzuki still sells the Burgman 400, just not in the US. For the US market we get to settle for the Burgman 200.

Piaggio will be selling the Beverly and Beverly S (S is the sportier version) in the US in both 300cc and 400cc. Sad to say, the largest scooter currently available in the US is the MP3 500 HPE - a three wheeled scooter.

Honda sells the X-ADV and the Forza 750, just not in the US. While I would be at my dealership with a deposit the day they announced bringing them to the US market I think it's unlikely. It seems like every time they try a large scooter in the US market it gets pulled QUICKLY! For the US market we have the NC750X - same motor as the X-ADV and Forza 750 with a chain drive! Biggest selling point? 80mpg - when you care enough about the environment to squeeze out out an extra 10 mpg, but not enough to go electric. Not that popular - today you can still buy new old stock going back to 2018, even after the free Covid money buying spree that wiped out all the 650 scooters. Part of that is the styling - it's a Prius dressed up as 4x4 - looks like an adventure bike only it has none of the features you would need to actually take it off-road. Part of that is the positioning. If you're looking for a part-time job anyway (clean, lube, adjust your chain every 300 miles) you can get a discounted Africa Twin (also a slow seller) for about the same price with a larger engine and some danger of surviving an off-road trip.

Honda did bring the X-ADV to the US, just in a 150cc version. The X-ADV has been a strong seller in the EU market and Honda has been rolling it out to other markets. I'd say the best chance (I said best not strong) for a new maxi scooter coming to the US is if Honda would retire the NC750X and replace it with the X-ADV.
 

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I just bought a 2020 Burgman 400 this week. I wanted a 650 but there aren't any left. I'm upgrading from the ill-fated Forza 300. Here's what I found when researching the market:

BMW has pulled the 650 from the US market. While there have been rumors that it will reappear at some future date with a new design and hopefully a better solution than a chain-drive and $1,500/per service oil bath BMW hasn't made any official announcements about if or when it will return to the US. For 2022 they will sell you the C400GT for an eye-watering $9,890! They also have their new CD 05 electric out for a mere $12,000. Have heard that they will not be making anymore, "...dinosaur juice powered city scooters from now on". (starts at :44) but I haven't been able to verify that or what it means exactly - does that only apply to Europe? is the C650GT a city scooter or something else?

Suzuki still sells the Burgman 400, just not in the US. For the US market we get to settle for the Burgman 200.

Piaggio will be selling the Beverly and Beverly S (S is the sportier version) in the US in both 300cc and 400cc. Sad to say, the largest scooter currently available in the US is the MP3 500 HPE - a three wheeled scooter.

Honda sells the X-ADV and the Forza 750, just not in the US. While I would be at my dealership with a deposit the day they announced bringing them to the US market I think it's unlikely. It seems like every time they try a large scooter in the US market it gets pulled QUICKLY! For the US market we have the NC750X - same motor as the X-ADV and Forza 750 with a chain drive! Biggest selling point? 80mpg - when you care enough about the environment to squeeze out out an extra 10 mpg, but not enough to go electric. Not that popular - today you can still buy new old stock going back to 2018, even after the free Covid money buying spree that wiped out all the 650 scooters. Part of that is the styling - it's a Prius dressed up as 4x4 - looks like an adventure bike only it has none of the features you would need to actually take it off-road. Part of that is the positioning. If you're looking for a part-time job anyway (clean, lube, adjust your chain every 300 miles) you can get a discounted Africa Twin (also a slow seller) for about the same price with a larger engine and some danger of surviving an off-road trip.

Honda did bring the X-ADV to the US, just in a 150cc version. The X-ADV has been a strong seller in the EU market and Honda has been rolling it out to other markets. I'd say the best chance (I said best not strong) for a new maxi scooter coming to the US is if Honda would retire the NC750X and replace it with the X-ADV.
Nice first post 👍🏻Keep them rolling.

The irony of America, known for liking large vehicles…”Suzuki still sells the Burgman 400, just not in the US. For the US market we get to settle for the Burgman 200”
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Lunatic Fringe is right on the money about large scooters in the US
 

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Funny that in this thread there has yet to be mention of the Kymco AK 550. I'd say that Kymco was listening. 2022 models of the AK 550 have been showing up at Kymco dealers in the last month at least... if not a bit before that. I already know of at least one owner of a 2022 AK 550. That Super Scooter is the perfect size IMO, but I'm biased coming from bigger bikes like the Gold Wing and moving my way down in size to the 1100/1300 and then the Burgman 650. The AK would be the smallest bike I have owned (when I buy one) in the last 22 years and the same weight as the lightest bike I've owned in that time. My Vulcan 750 is spec'd at 483 lbs dry and the AK is claimed to be somewhere between 462-498 lbs dry. I've done a test ride on the AK and I would say just from that brief experience that it is every bit as capable as my Burgman and most likely faster accelerating as well. Any comparison of the AK to any 400 cc scooter is like apples to oranges. Almost like comparing a Ford Focus to a Ford Mustang and calling those close to the same class. Not really a valid comparison IMO. I think it does a dis-service to the AK when journalist reviewers do that comparison since they really are just looking at the prices and not at the capabilities or even engine size, but more the capabilities.

A 300-400cc scooter would be nice as a mid-sized scooter. A 150-250 cc scooter is too small for me. I'm just not ready yet for something that small. But keep in mind, "big enough" is a matter of perspective. I'm past 66 yo and not getting younger. Maybe in another 5-6 years I'll consider moving down in size to a 300-400 scooter. Maybe. I still ride with guys who are in their 70s who ride either a Gold Wing or FJR or ST1300 or BMW K1600.

For anyone who is stepping up from smaller scooters to something bigger I can easily see that the AK would be considered a BIG scooter. Heavy and a monster to handle around the garage by comparison. But if anyone is considering riding cross country for more than just one or two trips a year then this is the way to go. To me the AK is a light weight bike. I have pushed it around the dealer floor for a bit and compared with any other bike I've owned it was a dream to handle.

I'd say that for 2022 if you are looking for a larger scooter in the USA there is still one that is more than able to replace a Burgman 650 and that is the 2022 Kymco AK 550. If it is a 400 you want Suzuki does still have the 2022 Burgman 400 in the lineup for the USA. They also have the 200 as mentioned earlier. So choices do still remain available for new.
 
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Funny that in this thread there has yet to be mention of the Kymco AK 550
There's a good reason for that. Three months ago - when this thread was last active - there were no new AK 550's in stock ANYWHERE in the US and not a peep from Kymco as to whether or not they would be bringing it back for 2022. There was good reason to think they weren't since most of the news about maxi scooters in the US wasn't good then. BMW and Suzuki had both retired their 650's and Suzuki didn't even bother to bring a 2021 Burgman 400 to the US. At the time they hadn't even announced that the 400 would be returning in 2022. What a difference a quarter of a year makes.
 

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What I was thinking of is that there had yet to be any updates to this thread.

And I was looking for the AK more than 3 months ago and did find some dealers who had them in stock. I know of current owners on the ADV Rider forum who bought theirs 3-4 months ago in the USA. True, there was no indication about 2022 models at that time but 1.5-2 months ago there were dealers who had those in stock. Don't know when Suzuki posted the 2022 Burgman 400 on their web site.
 

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What I was thinking of is that there had yet to be any updates to this thread.

Don't know when Suzuki posted the 2022 Burgman 400 on their web site.
I look fairly often at Suzuki's website to see what new 2022 models will be offered. The Burgman 400 showed up a few weeks ago. I hope you like 'Metallic Matte Sword Silver'. I've given up on my local dealer knowing what's available or coming in. He seems oblivious, and somewhat at the mercy of the powers-to-be at Suzuki to decide if and when they send him a shipment of new inventory. Or, maybe he figures I'm just looking and wasting his time.. Sorta like my spouse does... so I'm used to the abuse. ;)
 

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I will say I'm beginning to like the Matte Silver a little more than before. Partly because it seems so many dealers in this country think that's all we riders want even when other, more interesting, colors are available! I'm pretty set on the AK 550. If I cannot find a dealer in the MidWest who can get me a Matte Deep Blue then I'll take the Matte Silver Crystal.

My wife has told me she doesn't like the gray and that also has a bit to do with my color preferences. If SHE likes something better then I better stick with that... now that I have her accepting... er... tolerating the idea of me getting another scooter.
 
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