Suzuki Burgman USA Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
My name is Alan. I have posted here on the board since August 2003, telling tales of ownership, bridge burning and riding stories with my 650 Burgman.

I traded in my 9 month old silver AN650K3 for a silver AN400K3 on the 3rd of Feb, '04.

AN400 to AN650 comparisons:
1) 25 percent better gas milage than 650.
2) Oil filters cost half as much as 650.
3) I can place both feet on the ground with my new 400, much like with a Honda Rebel.
4) Stock windshield is quieter at cruise than 650 stock windshield.
5) Uses about half as much engine oil as 650 at oil change time.
6) 12volt receptacle is recessed into glove compartment unlike
650 model that has 12v socket stuck out too far.
7) If I drop the 400 (don't want to go there) I'll be able to pick it up unlike 650.
8 ) AN400 is nearly 120 pounds lighter than 650 (nimble little minx, isn't she?).
9) AN400's Bridgestone Hoop tires are 4 times less expensive (under $30 ea.) than the 650's TH01's.
10) Now I'll be able to build BurgyModules for both models. BurgyModules will allow parking brake stops with side-stand down and engine on, more accurate fuel gauge and a theft alarm. Coming late spring '04.

Instead of setting tire pressures at 25 front and 29 rear (by the book) before I rode it off the lot, the selling dealer pumped the brand new slick tires up to 32 and 34 as I found out the next day. Coupled with recent rain wet streets and brand new tires, I thought I was not going to make it home from the dealer.

The new Burgman has 125 ODO miles so far and it's finally loosening up a bit. The owners manual says to keep the rev's under 4000 for the first 600 miles but the AN400 requires at least 4500-5000 to get up to 35-45mph in the kind of traffic we have here in Tucson, Arizona which is not very friendly at all.
Both mirrors make objects appear larger than they really are so I'm having to adjust the way I see danger while viewing cars and jacked up trucks approaching from behind (whew).
The 400 will sit you alot lower and it's scaled smaller which makes cars and trucks seem more imposing than with the 650, but I'll get used to the better insurance rates ($100 bucks off).
Unlike the 650, the 400 is very easy to push around a parking lot after turning off the engine. The 650 has alot of drag from its powerless tranny and will tire out anyone attempting to push it to a gas station so be extra vigilant about your usable range with an AN650.

I miss the cool mode buttons on the 650 but as the 400's engine is breaking in, I realize that I may not need that stuff after all.
The 400 corners much like the 650 (awesome) but I haven't ridden it in a hard rain yet plus there's no ABS to spoil me.
With '0' miles on an AN400, it's first ride out will give you virtually glassy brake pad response (front and rear) that requires excessive brake lever pressure to get the bike to slow down. After a hundred miles, the brakes are very responsive now.

This afternoon I dumped the oil/filter and attempted to fill the engine again with 10-40 oil only to find that the filler hole is so far back that using the oils container doesn't match the hole and oil will spill all over. Tomorrow I get to rig an extension hose to a funnel and get the 2.1qts of 10-40 finally down the hole and ride!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,008 Posts
Alan, I also when from the 650 to the 400. With 580 miles, I a pleased with the trade. Does two people make a trend?

My riding friend needs some tires. Where did you see the tires for $30?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
605 Posts
Nice Post

Hey Ajwood,

Great little write up of the 400. I had all the same reasons for choosing the 400 over the 650 and now you've pointed out a couple of more. I haven't received it just yet but I can hardly wait. As for the breaking in and trying to keep the revs below 4000, it sounds like this is an impossible task. I guess just don't load up the engine and keep it free wheeling at least for the first couple of hundred miles will break it in just fine. Cool days, flat roads and easy on the throttle should do it OK. I also heard the oil filter used for one of their snowmobile modles is the same so maybe if you are clever they may sell it unknowingly cheaper!! Timothy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Roy,
Sorry for the typo. I saw an "every tire" listing for hoop at under $30 and that wasn't right.
Here's the real stuff and prices (they're still half price than 650) from http://www.cyclewareables.com/pages/sco ... _tires.htm

Pirelli GTS23 and GTS24
rear- 130/70-13TL CWGTS24-02 $56, FITS BURGMAN 400, BIAS
front- 110/90-13TL CWGTS23-02 $49, FITS BURGMAN 400, BIAS


.
Also there's:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/it ... Division=6
for the front 110/90-13 tire (another price).
and the 130/70-13 rear:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/it ... division=6
-
-
I like how the 400's rear tire valve is angled so I can attach my bicycle pump nozzle to it at home.
-
Arlo Guthrie, in his Alices Restaurant song mentioned something about
two people making it a movement and thats good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
timothy,

The owners book also says to replace the nickle sized 'O' Ring inside the element chamber (you'll see when you do it).
It cost me $2 so I'll shop around for next time.

The book also mentions to use a good quality element if not using Suzuki's but I won't to skimp over a $7 Suzuki element.

When you open the element cover, a half cup of oil will spill onto the exhaust pipe even if crankcase is drained first.
A plastic grocery bag draped over the pipe (below chamber cover) will solve for this.

The 3 cover screws are not tightened very much when you button it up again.
The lower screw is long shafted unlike the other two.
Be sure to clean the 'O' Ring behind the cover, then coat it with oil before placing back onto chamber facing.

You're gonna have a blast with yours.
What color did you order? Is it an'04?
I hear that the '04 instrument panel is a different font (type face) than the '03.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
ajwood said:
...I traded in my 9 month old silver AN650K3 for a silver AN400K3 on the 3rd of Feb, '04...
All very valid reasons, Alan, to choose a Burgman 400 over a 650. I wish you well with your new ride.

Question, do you do much two-up long distance touring? I'm sure the AN400 can handle it fine, but it would be an area where I think the AN650 would have an edge. Don't you think?

On that topic, do you know what is the carrying capacity of the AN400? I estimated the AN650 at around 440-450 lbs, but I'm not sure of the 400.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
605 Posts
Oil Change

Hey Ajwood,

Thanks for the tips in changing the oil. I guess the oil filter "O" rings can be re-used then. I probably will buy a couple for spares and watch to see if the casing seals after changing the oil. Only 2.1 liters of dino oil...that's all it takes. I would like to get the service manual but apparently it's not available just yet and I think the K3 model in some instances other than some plastic parts is not different. I've seen the ronayer.com sell it for about $20.00 U.S. funds and I will have to order the K4 manual as soon as it comes out. In the meantime, I may have to pick the brains of others until then since I intend on doing all my own maintenance. I really don't like some lacky working on my scoot...thats just like me and I know my dealer has already hinted that he wants to do the first service. Too bad buddie!! I'm probably the worse person to sell a vehicle.

Anyway I did purchase a slightly used muffler and some transmission parts from one of the participants on this site...after they went to an after market stainless steel pipe (i.e. most likely louder pipe) and the Malossi varator transmission kit. I tend to like things standard...quiet sounding and stock parts.

Regards...Timothy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
minnmax,
The information about gross weight is on the riveted frame number placard but not in the owners book!
I'll let you know tomorrow after I ride again.

Speaking of frame numbers, mine ends with 00077.
I think I have the 77th K3.
It sat in its box since march of last year (03/03), so when the ready-guys at the store inflated the rear tire, it showed a definite shallow spot.
Their offer to replace it won't be necessary because its worked out the spot by riding. I don't do any anticipated 2-up riding as I'm a lone wolf in the pack.

Of course the 650 has more power but the 400 doesn't give you a feeling that
its launched if you take it up past 1800 rpm either.
Various other posts have mentioned the amply powered 2-up touring that the 400
can do.

There are other more experienced riders of the 400 that can tell you what
its like after a thousand miles. I'm working on 200 right now. Out of the box, the
AN400 doesn't really go above 4,500 rpm because its so stiff. Starting off of a light, it'll go up to 4,200 and stay, then as the speed goes through 35mph it'll
"downshift" briefly to 4,400 for more torque if you haven't already backed down some throttle. Most of the city stop and go rpm is up to 4800 at the most, now.
In order to wind up rpms toward brief excursions past 6,000, I'll need to take it onto I-10 for a few miles, but I haven't done that yet. It takes speeds
in excess of 60mph to encourage the tranny into using more rev's than 5,000 it seems.
If the rider has time, they can rev the engine to 4500, then as speed builds
they'll be able to decrease throttle and watch the mph increase at the same time the rpms decrease. Getting the 400 up to 45mph uses alot of rpms but as the rider begins to cruise at 45, the rpms come down appreciably.
The 400 doesn't give the rider predictable torque in increments of a thousand rpms for example so its necessary to plant the rpms in excess of
4000 and things will happen all by themselves from a full stop. Any more throttle required than that and the rider needs to twist the throttle grip way around
in order for this little 400 single to mean any more business than usual.
The 400 has no tranny braking like the 650 has. Riding 2-up to Globe, AZ and back last summer on the 650 revealed the usefulness of Beta-Braking
through the tranny. Having 120 less dry pounds of AN400 may not require tranny braking. In a few weeks, I'll ask Nancy to put down her cellphone long enough to give
me some 2-up gross-weight braking tests.

After the 400's first oil change (at 120mi), it no longer hits an rpm/torque ceiling at 5,000 using only
moderate throttle.
Unlike the 650, the AN400 has only one oil reservoir to fill plus the hypoid.

This is going to be good.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,008 Posts
Alan, thanks for the links to the tires. I have not looked at those sites. A additional comment about tires. The front Bridgestone is available through after market suppliers, but the rear Bridgestone is only available from Suzuki at a premium price. One of my local dealers said he was going to a dealers show next week and he will find out if the rear Bridgestone is going to be sold by aftermarket suppliers this year. If they do start selling the rear also, the price should come down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
roy,

the above link: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/it ... division=6
shows the rear Bridgestone for $54.
The tire size and tire model name is identical to the oem.

The Perelli 130/70-13TL rear tire ($49) that the other website states is for the 400 is also available.

My Suzuki dealer here in Tucson is able to beat any price that Suzuki quotes for tires by ordering the
exact same tire (oem) directly through a regional tire distributor instead.

If you shop your yellow pages for used bike shops that do a brisk business
in the service end, they tend to have various lines available for tires.

My VX800 and GSX1100 both got replacement (oem) tires put on
by KC Engineeering when I lived in San Francisco in the 90's
because at the time, Golden Gate Cycles (Suzuki) couldn't beat their price,
not for just the tire but for tire plus labor.

When the rear tire gets replaced, I'll ask the shop to swing the angled
tire valve around to the left side, for even easier access.
Cycle Gear (Stone & Grant rd.) says that they can knock off some labor costs
if I just bring in the wheels with old tires on.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,008 Posts
Alan, good idea about the stem. I will write that one down so I do not forget it. The tire at the link you mentioned is a rear tire for the Reflex and is a 12".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
roy,

Is that the Perelli? It has the same numbers and is recommended.
The raised numbers on the tire make it look sporty.

To make sure, I'll be checking with the installer of the tire first.

-

I checked the placard today and the Burgman 400 can haul 860lbs.

-

Checked rear wheel angled stem and found wheel has angled indentation so its
not going to be possible to pivot the stem like I thought.

-
Took the AN400 out on I-10 today and discovered that 75mph is not that
hard to do. There is no redline on the rpm gauge that goes up to 10k.
Every time I settled down to a speed above 60 the rev's would settle back
to around 5 to 7k. Redlining this bike would be a task and I don't want to go there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
ajwood said:
...I checked the placard today and the Burgman 400 can haul 860lbs...
Impressive!

The AN400 has a GVW of 860 lbs.
The AN650 has a GVW of 999 lbs.
The Dry Weight of the AN400 is 405 lbs.
The Dry Weight of the AN650 is 524 lbs.
Smaller fuel tank, but better gas mileage for the AN400, fuel weighs ~19 lbs.
AN650 bigger tank, lower mpg, fuel weights ~22.5 lbs.
Other fluids, a bit more of them in AN650 over the AN400, so a few more lbs there.

My estimate when push comes to shove:
The Burgman AN400 carrying capacity is about 428 lbs.
The Burgman AN650 carrying capacity is about 443 lbs.
Or simply put, the AN650 is rated to carry only about 15 lbs more than AN400.

Wow! :shock: The 400 is really a bargin, when all is said and done.
Cheaper to buy, insure, maintain, and fuel, yet can carry a virtually identical load and has a similar range between fill-ups!

Of course, I'm not about to give up my 650, but I am impressed.
8)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
508 Posts
ajwood:

To you and everyone who posted such EXCELLENT information on this thread, thanks a ton. In the brief period of time during which my husband and I have been members of this forum, we found the experienced answer to every question we had. It helped us immeasurably.

We did it today: Bought two 2003 Burg 400s! Will take delivery as soon as it stops being the dead heart of winter and the ice goes off the roads. Shall post my buying experience on that topical thread in the "newbies" segment.

TOTALLY STOKED! <Ahem> Pardon the outburst.

Best regards,
Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
ChrisLucey said:
ajwood:
To you and everyone who posted such EXCELLENT information on this thread, thanks a ton. In the brief period of time during which my husband and I have been members of this forum, we found the experienced answer to every question we had. It helped us immeasurably.

We did it today: Bought two 2003 Burg 400s! Will take delivery as soon as it stops being the dead heart of winter and the ice goes off the roads. Shall post my buying experience on that topical thread in the "newbies" segment.

TOTALLY STOKED! <Ahem> Pardon the outburst.

Best regards,
Chris
- - - - - - - - - - -

ChrisLucey,

If its not the snow its the runoff, the re-freeze, mud, rain, salt, headwinds, rocks, bugs, cold, heat, sweat, dust and
spit out chewing gum that makes it to outside of the helmet but not away from the bike.
But its worth it!
I look forward to your buying experience comments.

Did you folks get a quantity discount?
Same colors?

Before I walk the 400 through a narrow doorway to park, I
swivel the mirror mounts toward the inside of the handlebars for really great clearance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Maintenance

minnmax

You mentioned that the maintenance was cheaper on the 400 compared to the 650. Do you know how many miles between the valve adjustment intervals on the two bikes, how much does it cost to have a dealer do it or is it easy, like with screw adjuster, for the owner to do.

Thanks,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Pssst,
Get the service manual and do the valve clearances yourself.
This work builds much confidence and leaves at least $200 left over for
helmets or a couple nights stay away from home on the Burg .

Give it about 600-800 miles before you crack open the covers, or if you've
over done it like me with frequent oil changes the first 1,000 miles,
wait until about 1,300 to 1,500 before adjusting the screw/nut tappet valves.

The service manual gives 'I' tappet inspection marks on its chart table at:
600
4,000
7,500
12,000
18,000
24,000

The 400's drive belt gets replaced at every 12-14,000 miles unlike the 650's belt that has an indefinite life span.
AN650K3 Drive Belt: $412.00
AN400K3 Drive Belt: $98.50
(Retail prices quoted from Tucson Motorsports 6/04)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
That's good to here that the 400 is using screw/nut tappetts. Does the 650 have screw/nut tappetts?

Now I have an opinion type question. I have gone my hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycles over my life and the only "scooter" riding was when I rode a friends Reflex home from the dealer, even got rained on a little. To me it seemed like it felt a little "skate boardish" is the best way I can describe it. Since the 400 & 650 have larger tires are they much better at not feeling this way.

How good it the 400 at running highway speeds? Is it just rung out to maintain 70-75? How about smoothness and engine buzz?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,363 Posts
OBIWAN said:
That's good to here that the 400 is using screw/nut tappetts. Does the 650 have screw/nut tappetts?

Now I have an opinion type question. I have gone my hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycles over my life and the only "scooter" riding was when I rode a friends Reflex home from the dealer, even got rained on a little. To me it seemed like it felt a little "skate boardish" is the best way I can describe it. Since the 400 & 650 have larger tires are they much better at not feeling this way.

How good it the 400 at running highway speeds? Is it just rung out to maintain 70-75? How about smoothness and engine buzz?
Obiwan,

Welcome to the forum.

The 650 does not have screw/nut tappets. It is of the shim-under-bucket design. Longer range between valve adjustments (14500 mile intervals recommended), but more difficult & labor intensive to do.

I have a 650. It is the most stable two wheeler I've ever had in crosswinds. It is about the same length as my 1000cc motorcycle, it weighs more than the motorcycle, has a lower center of gravity, and big wide radial tires. "Skateboardish" it is not. It does have a different feel from a motorcycle due to the smaller diameter wheels, the automatic transmission, and the low center of gravity, but I adapted to it quickly. I enjoy both of my Suzukis - but I ride the Burgman more frequently than the motorcycle, and have put more miles on it.

The 400 is similar in length I think, does not have radial tires, and is somewhat lighter - but it is quite a step up from the Reflex in performance. Our members that ride 400s are very enthusiastic about them.

Browse around the forum. We all don't agree on everything, but if you take an average of the various opinions expressed, you'll get a very good feel for what these machines are.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top