[Roger32849]

I bought a salvaged 2008 Burgman 400 and have enjoyed learning about it. My learning curve has been through trial and error trying to get it to start. I ordered a shop manual and the two relays that are the safeties for the fuel pump and the starting circuit. I also ordered a new tip over switch. I was able to jump out the safety for the starting circuit and the fuel pump circuit. Power is present for the safeties but the original relays got wet and have malfunctioned. The problem I am trying to figure out is in the starting circuit, so here is my question.. When I tested the coil, it checked good, but when I crank the engine over, the coil sparks only once then nothing. If I stop cranking, wait a few seconds and try again, I get one spark on the retry and then nothing. Before I jump in and start buying a new ICU, stator, pulse generator or other component, I thought I would ask the forum. There is 12 volts at the positive terminal on the coil, and I get a strong pulse on the 1st revolution of the crankshaft and then the remainder of the pulses are weak.

The bike looks as though it was kept covered but outside and shows signs of obvious neglect and moisture intrusion on some of the wiring terminal ends. I have checked, cleaned and rechecked. So what do you suppose the problem is with the ignition circuit? If anyone has ever had a similar issue, or experienced issues with weak or no spark, please jump in and offer your expertise.

Thanks guys
Roger, the new guy

 

[mike1nw]

I saw no answer and will give this a shot.

On my car (Saturn) there is a CPS (crankshaft position sensor) which is the brain that activates the fuel injection and spark systems.
As another Saturn forum member put it, NO CPS = no spark and no start.

Is there a CPS on the Burger? I don't know for sure, but something has to tell the "computer" that the engine is turning.

My 2 cents.

How did stuff get wet? And did the "Computer" get wet also? Gosh, I would clean every connection. Or at least spray with WD-40.

 

[v8eyedoc]

OMG............!!!!!!!! Does anyone at all remember the "good old days" when there were no engine control computers.??? Everything was so simple back then!

Today - a guy needs to be a mechanic - computer expert - electrician...and be willing to take out the trash for his wife - as well......!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

 

[Roger32849]

When I checked the ignition control Unit electrical contacts, they were clean and not corroded. The box itself is sealed and I am hoping it functions. There is really no good method to check it. The tip over switch has a magnetic pendulum that swings across a couple of micro-circuitry contacts. I have a new one coming. The bike had a mild lay down on its right side damaging it sufficiently to total out the scooter. The ICU is on the left, but the crash damaged two relays, both are replaced. The salvage place I got it from had it running, but you know how that goes. The only crankshaft positioner on this scooter (that I know of) is the pulse generator. It has a pick up coil next to the flywheel. As the flywheel spins a magnet on the flywheel induces a field as it passes the pulse coil. And it does pulse. All other safeties, lockouts and switches have either been checked, or replacement parts ordered. I have to ask, is there a starting procedure, like applying a brake lever or emergency brake?

From the general appearance, it looks as though this scooter was placed beneath a tarp and stored outside. The moisture from the ground more than likely got trapped beneath the tarp and caused the corrosion. The Oregon Salvage title has a block that will say Flood, Theft, or Totaled, mine says totaled and from the damage to the right front, it was NOT all that bad. Frame is straight, muffler not damaged only the front fairing supports were slightly bent.

If anyone can help, or sell me a 2007 - 2009 ICU real cheap so I can eliminate that potential reason.. I would appreciate it.

Roger
Worcester Ma (AKA THE FROZEN TUNDRA)

 

[v8eyedoc]

Most everything you said here was Greek to me...BUT..YES..You need to sqeeze either front or rear brake to close the starting circuit.

 

[azrider]

...When I tested the coil, it checked good, but when I crank the engine over, the coil sparks only once then nothing. If I stop cranking, wait a few seconds and try again, I get one spark on the retry and then nothing.

I had the very same issue last week on my '07 400. I hadn't started it in months, it needed a bath so took it outside and washed it. I figured the battery was probably dead and it was. Trying to jump start it and it would turn over fine but no start. Replaced the plug but checked the spark at the same time and had the very same issue you do. I swapped out the coil from the '06 and still had the 1 spark then nothing problem. Swapped out the rectifier from the '06 (same part number) and it fired right up. Can't say washing the bike harmed it as I've done that the same way many times. Can't say letting it sit for 6 months harmed it either. Was probably just coincidence that the rectifier died.

Look under the front cowling on the left side of the scoot. (right side as you are looking up under the cowling). The thing with the heat sink fins is the rectifier. Need to pull the cowling off to replace but that's pretty easy. look at Mitch's youtube video for removing the front.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEX3Vmc53Ek

 

[Roger32849]

Thanks for the information. I did an ohm test and as far as I can tell it failed. The test I did was to check resistance between any black wire w/white stripe to the yellow wires with the rectifier removed from the circuit. Here are the results:

Leg 1 - 639 k ohms
Leg 2 - 641 k ohms
Leg 3 - 1.97 m ohms

It usually doesn't matter what the diodes read as long as they are very close to the same readings on all three legs. Leg 3 is the failure. Now I need to order a new one, or at least a good used one.

I really appreciate the heads up and if I see you on the road, or meet up, lunch is on me.... Not an idle promise!!

Roger

 

[InfernoST]

The rectifier was a recall item on the 08 400's.

 

[Roger32849]

Yep, but this Burgman was wrecked before the recall. I Just read that a bunch of Suzuki bikes were subject to the recall and the Burgman was at the top of the list.

Thanks for the info, every bit helps.

Roger

 

[Roger32849]

Re: New guy question & problem with no start. FIXED IT READ

I got the new rectifier on the bike, still just one spark!! I compared the readings I got from the original test with the test I did on the new (not used) rectifier. I set my digital meter to a less sensitive reading. Both were very close and I didn't get any feedback continuity through the diodes. I kept the new rectifier installed and put the questionable one on the shelf for the time being. I ran through a series of tests, continuity tests on the pulse generator.. removing sensors from the circuit and reinstalling them and so on. I could find nothing that would indicate a problem. I finally broke down and bought a used CDI from a 2009 Burgman 400. It was still no spark. A test of the primary and secondary circuits of the coil all checked good. There is, after all of this, a happy ending. I got the problem resolved. I now have spark to the plug. I got this resolved late last night. All the time I was doing this, I was hoping it would be something that I could discover as a test and not simply giggle some wire and it all started working and not really know what I did to fix the issue. Here was what I did. I removed the coil from the left side of the engine and did some more cleaning of the contacts, but that wasn't the problem (exactly) I saw the coil mounts were actually metal and I did a little test to ground. I found the mounts very corroded with aluminum oxide and rust. I got out my trusty wire brush and cleaned the mount and the motor mount area for the coil. I got out a small pair of alligator jumpers and clipped one end to the mount of the coil and the other to the chassis ground. "BINGO" it fired like it should. I will install the coil and get it started today, I am sure. "So the Saga ends of the no spark - spark plug" I bought a NEW rectifier, a used CDI, and a set of relays and tip over switch. I feel I needed the rectifier to avert an obvious future fail and since my bike has a salvage title, all warranties are void. Getting one on a recall wasn't possible. So, the total cost of getting the problem fixed was $125.00 ( $95.00 for the ICU and $30.00 for the relays) not counting the rectifier, it is something I would have bought anyway. By the way, the rectifier only converts AC voltage to DC to keep your battery charged. As far as I can tell it does not provide a direct path to the firing circuit. As long as the battery has enough power to operate the electrical system, your bike will run as long as the battery has the juice to power it. It is questionable whether or not I needed the ICU, I will know later today if mine was bad. The money I spent was a lot less than taking it do a dealer for repair. I feel I gained the knowledge to make a good repair and at least I know what makes the scooter run. I know what the relays are for, how the tip over switch is wired into the circuit and what the rectifier does. Not only that, I have a lot of feedback from guys on the forum. So, thank you all for your input.

Roger

 

[13bturbofc]

EDIT: sorry i just read your whole last post and see you figured the problem out! congrats on that!

I know this sounds like a simple and not likely reason for your problems but i have found that these burgmans must take a ton of voltage to initially start the engine, Im a mechanic and this is the only engine and ignition system that ive seen that can crank over when you turn the key and even sound like its cranking at full speed but yet it doesn't have enough juice to start until you hook up a battery jump box to give it that extra jolt of voltage to get the ignition to fire the plug! So give that a try, hook up a charger or jump box even if it sounds like its cranking at full speed it may not be enough to fire the plug correctly...

 

[Roger32849]

Update on the one spark/No start!!

The scooter was (yes, it is a "WAS" now) disassembled and the frame cut up and put on the scrap pile. I removed everything from it and only the frame went to the GREAT BEYOND for scooters. It did not come to me with the plastics or speedometer. It was pathetic sight, but the frame was tweaked and not really restorable. I carried all the remaining parts to my workshop and cleaned, painted, degreased and corrosion controlled. The spark is alive and well, the engine looks like new, and runs perfect. The wiring harness contacts have been cleaned and the newer electronic pieces plugged in. The eBay speedometer looks and operates like new and I will be rebuilding the calipers this week and giving them a powder coating. The electronics, the engine, wheels, brakes and cooling system are going on an Eco-Exo reverse trike kit that I am buying from the Exomotive Company based near Atlanta Georgia. Check out the their website at this address: www.eco-exo.com You will see what I am talking about. Anyway, thanks for all the input, and if your Burgman runs great, but looks like it was an over by a truck, look into this kit, it is pretty neat.

Roger