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Discussion Starter #1
I am having a terrible time stopping properly.

I have dropped "The Beast" 3 times now coming to a stop! I have an inseam of 28 in. and find that I can stand flat footed on one foot if the ground is perfectly flat. Unfortunatly, the roads are anything but perfectly flat. I find that as I release the throtle and the bike hits the "dead zone" slowing down, I am very uncomfortable with this feeling and I find myself stopping rather quickly by squeezing the brakes too tightly. With my short legs, all I can think of is keeping the bikle upright and not letting it lean so that I don't drop it again. As a result, I'm usually short of where I want to stop and have to creep up to a position where I have a better view to see if It's OK to proceed.

I have had "The Beast" for 2 months now and have put on over 2000kms. and thoroughly enjoying my trips thru the Rockies.
 

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Have you taken the basic MSF course? It doesn't sound like it. I know that the Burgie handles much differently than regular street bikes, but the skills are still relevant.

If you haven't taken the class yet, then taking it on the Burgie would be a super learning experience!

My wife and I will be taking the advanced course next month. I believe we'll both be on Burgie 650s.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, I have taken the lessons and never had a problem stopping. My 650 is giving me problems because of the height of the seat.
 

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When you come to a stop which foot do you put down? I think it should be the left so you can use the crown of the road to your advantage.

Have you tried wearing thicker soled boots?

Have you considered shaving down the seat some, or having it done? Or possibly having a custom seat made? Maybe it just needs to be narrowed some so you can reach the ground easier.

Just some suggestions, please don't be offended, but I'm having to think from a whole different perspective here (I'm 6'4" & have never experienced this type of problem), and though some of my thoughts appear a little too obvious, you never know what can help.
 

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My wife and I both have 30" inseams, which means some tippy-toeing as well.

We spent 1/2 hr. each riding around in a chuch parking lot. Practicing tight circles, figure 8s, and stopping at different rates - getting used to the variable rate engine braking and coasting at 8 mph. The scoot has such a low center of gravity, that once you get comfortable with it at slow speeds, it is pretty easy to come to a stop with your feet still on the floorboards. It only takes a little bit of strength to keep the bike nearly vertical at that point.

I'm not sure what my point is, except that I think youmight just need to envest some time in slow speed practice, someplace pretty flat and safe, like a church parking lot in the middle of the week.

A lower seat may be necessary to make you comfortable, in the long run.
 

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The brakes are powerful yet Japanese. There isn't the Teutonic feedback thru the levers that I would like. Who knows? - if I had bought a Moto-Guzzi 850 or a BMW super stopper or a SW - the levers and feedback might "feel" better to me. Well - it's all in the cost I guess. For the price (current dollars)

I figure I gotta '69 2 door Chevy 350 Nova that my Mom drove. 8) in 2004 form! :evil:
 

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One great thing about the Burgmans is that with both brakes in the hands you're free to put down whichever foot will reach the ground best. That can vary depending on the terrain, although as Wylman pointed out it will often be the left in places that ride on the right.

Practice coming to a smooth stop by applying brakes until you're well slowed, then letting off a little so you roll slowly to the stop line. Once you've had more experience you'll be able to balance for a moment at a complete stop with both feet up, and then guide the bike to a gentle lean in whichever direction you choose just as that foot reaches the ground.

I also second the recommendations for thicker-soled boots and/or lowering the seat. Several members here have done the latter, and a search of the forums may yield some advice there.

HTH.
 

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There's been a lot of discussion on the forum about using the brakes and throttle together to increase control at low speeds.

On the other hand, your problem is basically seat-height. As others have suggested you either need thick soled boots and/or a lowered seat. I doubt that you'll ever feel secure without dealing with that fundamental problem.

BTW, the AN400 has a seat that is almost 2" lower than the 650. Unless you're a real road-warrior, the performance of the 400 should be sufficient and you'll be a lot more comfortable. I'd bet you could negotiate a fair trade + cash with one of the longer-legged 400 owners who might want to get a bigger bike. Check out the Classified forum.

Good luck,

Ken
:eek:gre:
 

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I've been mulling this over quite a bit and the suggestions regarding a lower seat/smaller bike got me to thinking along a slightly different tack.

Most folks can't do more than barely tippy-toe on dirt bikes and dual sports, yet they rarely fall over when stopping. Why? It is because the riders choose the foot that is on the high side to put down and then hike out on one cheek to reach.

While the saddle on the Burgman is not the smooth plank of a dirt bike (in fact it is wide, squishy and grabby) nonetheless, exercising a little anticipation should put you in position for a safe and smooth landing every time.

You said you had dumped the "Beast" 3 times, but obviously you've successfully stopped without dumping it many more times. If you can identify what caused the problem in the previous dumps, be extra aware when the situation seems similar, and hike out on the high side, dumps should be a thing of the past! :wink:
 

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Don't look down.

I'm not joking. I get the feeling that too much is going on for you at stopping event itself. Stopping is part of the flow of riding, and likewise you should be looking up and thinking about what you need to be doing well ahead of the actual moment you touch the brake levers.
 

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In addition to the above suggestions, have you tried to move the backrest all the way forward? It is adjustable and if you can move up toward the front of the seat you may pick up a little bit of legroom, and getting some boots with thicker soles will give you a bit more.
 

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Wasquid has a good MSF point. Sometimes we forget the basics!

In the MSF course we were taught to always stop with the left foot down, so the right foot can hold the rear brake pedal. As was pointed out before, (Wyldman I think) you now have 2 options for every stop - choose the closer reach.

Another thing we learned back in basic was that the front brake, while providing much greater stopping force, it also causes front end dive and loss of some steering control. If you aren't set up squarely when you come to a stop, you will tend to fall over AS you stop. Focus on staying vertical, until you have come to a stop. A trick I used on my Nomad was to tweak the handlebars to the left just a skosh in the last 3-6" of travel as I came to a stop. This caused a miniscule lean to the left so that I was never left wobbling not knowing which foot would be needed.

The 3-stage stopping on the Burgman is a little weird - but that's why they make church parking lots! From infinity down to about 15 seems to be a fairly restrained engine braking effect. At something below 15 it increases dramatically and if you are already on the brakes it may be extreme, then it eases up to a coast and that is where you have to be relaxed and focused to ease to a stop "in the box."

Too much rambling, but it is helping to clear my mind. :wink: I hope it might give you some food for thought.
 

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I used to have problems stopping when I was learning to ride. My MAIN problem was that I was worried about stopping and not dropping the bike. A wise mentor (my husband) insisted that I keep my eyes looking straight ahead ...do not look down or you will increase the odds of going down... I soon began making smooth, balanced stops. Also, on a taller bike I had, I would scoot forward in the seat as I was approaching the stop, which gave me more leg to reach the ground, keep my eyes looking straight ahead (which is very important for keeping the bike balanced), when almost stopped I put my left foot down and finish the stop. Pretty soon you can make a good stop without thinking about it.

I have had my Burgie two weeks now, and I am still getting used to making good stops. I too am finding that I get stopped short of the stop sign/light and then have to coast forward sometimes. But it is getting better. I would suggest you take the advice on this thread, go to a parking lot and practice, practice, practice, until you get used to making good stops (Hmmmmmmmm, sounds like I should take my OWN good advice!!!!)

Don't give up on the 650 too soon. It is an amazing bike.
 

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I think that the most of your stopping problem is that you just haven't yet learned the correct technique for the B650. What works for me, as I'm approaching a stop, I coast down, using the both brakes gently to about 10 or 12 MPH. Then I let go of the front brake, roll the throttle on slightly, enough to keep the clutch engaged, controlling the speed with just the rear brake. I keep my view straight ahead and well above car height so I can see down the street a ways. After, or just at a full stop, I put my left foot down and then shut off the throttle. I can maintain an upright position with both feet up with no problem, as long as the throttle is on slightly with the clutch engaged and the engine trying to pull forward, just slightly. It didn't take more that 2 or 3 stops to learn this trick.
 

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The "EYES" responses have it.

All Bikes will go exactly where your eyes are focused. Scanning, breaking, stopping, leaning at speed, slow speed turns, etc. Makes no difference.

Keep your eyes horizontal with and looking up at the horizon at all times, focused on where you want to go. If you are focusing on that white "stop stripe", the bike will "go there" also, as you have experienced.

I know its counter-intuitive. Takes lots of practice. Speaking to yourself out loud as you ride "LOOK UP" "EYES LEVEL" "LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO" over and over. I still catch myself screwing it up once in a while

Keep practicing and you will get it. Try to be a little more gentle on the brake levers. They like a "slow hand" BTW so does the throttle.

Bill
 

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Wes, I will try your suggestion. Haven't tried using the rear brake and the throttle at the same time. Sounds like that may be a good technique to learn for slow speed stuff. I have been putting the bike into 1st gear manual for slow speed u-turns etc. to keep from twitching the throttle too much. That seems to work, but your suggestion seems like it might be a good one to learn.

Love the automatic transmission! I once swore that I would never want a scooter because I enjoy shifting through the gears. It took only one or two rides and I wasn't missing the shifting at all.
 

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I tell my buds that now that I've become accustomed to being shiftless, I wouldn't want to go back to grinding gears. I don't think they quite get it though.
 

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All the above advice seems to be the best around.
Your having problems with the most basic of all riding "drills" I will ditto something said , go take the MSF course before you have to many bad habits to correct.
If you have taken it I would take it again, if for any reason you can't then you need to find an empty parking lot, and maybe a friend who knows a little something about riding.
The problem is not learning how to stop, you will eventually get it.
The problem is all the bad habits you may pick up learning.
 
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