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My 650 finally died!

I was on the interstate in the Kansas City metro area when my scooter belt or something just detached and no matter what mode I put it in, I was in neutral. We trailered it home and it is waiting for decision. Not sure what to do, it has almost 62000 miles on it. I am willing to look at a newer Burgman and try to sell it for parts or to someone who thinks they can fix it. I think it might cost more than the scooter is worth to fix it. Any ideas? Yes, I did replace the bolt at around 50k miles. I am not mechanic, most I do is replace fluid, drive, transmission, oil etc. JC
 

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Discussion Starter #2
My 650 with nearly 62k miles on it, lost it's get up and go out on the interstate. I was rolling along around 70 mph and it started revving and there seemed to be disconnect between the throttle and the drive wheel. I think the chain/belt is broken. It didn't matter what mode I put it in, it started fine and then it wouldn't go anymore and it is much easier to push now-nothing slowing the drive wheel anymore. Any ideas on what to do? Would the repair cost as much as the bike is worth? JC
 

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Re: My 650 finally died!

With it being an 03 model it could be that the primary adapter failed. The other likely possibilities are the belt wore out or the clutch gave out. Belt and clutch are not that expensive to fix if you do the work yourself. The primary adapter is more expensive as you will likely have to replace the primary pulley. If you have basic mechanical ability then all three are fairly easy to do. The clutch work can be done in a few hours. Either of the CVT problems will take several days of work for a home mechanic to do. Not difficult work but time consuming.
 

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If it is just the belt, if you do the work yourself it will be less than $500. If you have someone do it for you it's more than the bike is worth because of the labor involved with pulling the CVT. When I replaced the belt in mine it cost me a little more than $400 for parts and some tools that I didn't have and had to buy.
 

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I just checked Kelly Blue Book and it gives the retail value of an 03 650 in excellent condition as $3,635. That means that if your bike is otherwise in good condition then it is worth more than it would cost to have someone do the work to replace the belt. It shouldn't cost more than about $2,000 parts and labor to have a belt changed as long as there is nothing else wrong inside the CVT.
 

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JC, pop the primary input shaft cover (on left side with two bolts) off and start it up. If the primary input adapter is turning it is more likely the belt. But if the adapter is not turning or skipping, the adapter and it mate on the engines flywheel are shot.
 

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Dave_J said:
JC, pop the primary input shaft cover (on left side with two bolts) off and start it up. If the primary input adapter is turning it is more likely the belt. But if the adapter is not turning or skipping, the adapter and it mate on the engines flywheel are shot.
Actually when the splines strip off the primary pulley assembly the adapter spins with the engine driven gear but the bolt that holds it on does not. You can also pull the CVT air filter and see if the secondary fan/pulley assembly is turning to see if the belt broke.
 

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if you have zero traction and you did not experience any slippage or mis-shifting issues prior to the failure, it is very likely that your CVT belt broke, you can check that rather easily by taking the PPS out and peaking in there. Or if you have one of those remote cameras with a flexible shaft, you could go in via the CVT exhaust without taking any tupperware off.

If you like the scoot and don't mind doing the work yourself, I think You can repair it for about $400-600 depending on what has to be replaced for the belt job.

you can always buy another 650 and part this one out, it all depends on what your priorities are and how much time you have on your hand.

62k miles is pretty decent for the belt... mine went out at 52k miles, Buffalo got over 80k miles on his before it broke.

You can check this DIY to get an idea of the scope of the project if you decide to do the repairs yourself:

DIY - CVT Repair
 

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:lurk:
 

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jcdorz said:
Yes, I did replace the bolt at around 50k miles. JC
May I ask, what "bolt"? And why is needing to be singled out as that you had it replaced?

Also, what is a "primary input adapter"? Is this a mating adapter between the engine and the CVT "transmission"?
 

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Captain Fish:

Try looking at the parts fiches (right up your alley) at Ronayers.com. In the picture of the CVT you will see a rather large piece on the primary shaft...this is the adapter (take a look at the price.) The one bolt holding it from turning (external on the bottom) is the one about which many are concerned.

R on OB
 

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The "BOLT" he replaced was the Primary Stopper Bolt on the bottom outside of the CVT. There are three supercided bolts thru the years.

Yes the Primary Input Adapter is bolted on the 02-04 CVT and is known to be a bad design and has a high failure rate.
 

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Thank you for the update. I've been absent from the forums for a few years and haven't kept up with the chatter. I'm getting back in as my life has settled back down and I am wanting to purchase a replacement burgy for the one I sold a few years back. So, this realm of discussion and the defects has me peeked.

Is this "bolt" getting sheered off? What was the issue that led riders to determine the bolt was the problem? I take it from jcdorz that there is now a new maintenance procedure added by riders to have this bolt checked and replaced at some interval due to a known mileage limit failure?
 

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This is what the collective wisdom of those of us on the board have more or less decided. The tip of the bolt wears from the hits it takes each time the adjuster motor activates to change the ratio of the primary pulley. After some time the wear gets bad enough that the bolt starts riding up over the lip of the slot it fits into on the primary pulley. When this happens it causes load on the bearings inside the primary pulley. That eventually leads to failure of the bearings and the pulley. At that point you are looking at a rather expensive repair to the CVT especially if you have the work done by a shop.

Many of us have taken to inspecting the bolt at some interval and if it is showing signs of excessive were we are replacing them. The exact interval to do the check is up for debate. Some check it each oil change. Some go for longer intervals. I check mine about every 10,000 miles or so. It will depend on you personal comfort level. Also the rate the bolts wear seems to vary quite widely and no one knows for sure why. It might be related to the riding styles of the different riders, for example lots of city riding as opposed to lots of highway riding. Like I said no one knows for sure.
 

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Buffalo said:
The tip of the bolt wears from the hits it takes each time the adjuster motor activates to change the ratio of the primary pulley.
Same result but I believe it's vibration not motor shifts causing the wear because they wear smooth and it doesn't appear to be higher failure from what I've heard in those using manual mode.
 

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It's possible it could be vibration related. As for whether manual or auto mode would cause more stress on the bolt, that is debatable also. Manual mode would cause a more sudden and possibly stronger hit but auto would cause more hits because it is constantly shifting ratios. Do a bunch of weaker hits cause more damage that a few stronger hits. Does either cause more problems than vibration. Your guess is as good as mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I've got the scooter in the shop with explicit instructions to call me when they know what the problem is. I am not a mechanic nor am I handy or even mechanically inclined. Only thing I do to my scooter is change all the fluids, air filter, and clean it. I doubt that this shop will even know what to do. The do motorcycles, ATVs, and scooters. I left it there on Saturday, called on Monday, no word, now I'll try tomorrow Wed, to see what the latest is. JC
 

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I just turned 9,000 on my Executive and am seriously thinking of trading for a Silverwing, NC700 or a used VFR800. For a machine this expensive to have such an Achilles heal is just baloney. I'll take the hit in the trade in while the machine still has some value to get a bike that will last the rest of my (hopeful) life.
 

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jcdorz said:
I've got the scooter in the shop with explicit instructions to call me when they know what the problem is. I am not a mechanic nor am I handy or even mechanically inclined. Only thing I do to my scooter is change all the fluids, air filter, and clean it. I doubt that this shop will even know what to do. The do motorcycles, ATVs, and scooters. I left it there on Saturday, called on Monday, no word, now I'll try tomorrow Wed, to see what the latest is. JC
If they still don't know have them pull both right/left leg covers (the ones for maintenance) and check these.

On the left side of the bike remove these two bolts (green arrows) and the stamped cover (red arrow)



Look inside and you'll see the input adapter gear (green arrow) and the engine driven gear (blue arrow, rust colored). Look and see if you have marks from the bolt spinning on the adapter gear. Now start the bike and see if everything is spinning. If both gears are spinning but the bolt is not then the splines are stripped on the CVT input shaft. If everything including the bolt is spinning then shut the bike off and go to the next step.



on the right side of the bike is the CVT air filter. Remove the upper hose connection and remove the air filter cover (green arrow the black part).



Remove the CVT air filter (red arrow held on with two bolts.



Now start the bike again and see if the CVT fan is spinning (blue arrows) inside the case. If the fan is not spinning and all the input parts were then the CVT belt is broken.

 
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