Modular FLIP OVER Helmets
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Can you provide more pro/con details of your helmet please.
How long have you had it?
How well has it and the component parts stood up (i.e. quality of build)?
Always like to hear from people with first hand experience. Thanks in advance.
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Suzi, I bought the LS2 about a year ago, I wanted a flip that went right back. The LS2 is certified in both positions so that is good. It was between that one and the Shark. It is very comfortable, I've had no problems with it, quality seems good.
To be honest I mainly ride with it flipped back, more so when I'm riding the Burgman because of the Givi screen protection but it's nice to have the option to use it as a full face when it's raining, not that it rains much in the UK. I'd love one over in Spain also but they are quite expensive over there, my plan was to take it over in the motorhome as I have a bike on the back and leave it there and buy another for UK when I got back but the covid scuppered plans somewhat. I made sure I tried both before I bought and I preffered the LS2, as I recall it was easier to flip than the Shark, when on the move. Try them both before you buy, you might prefer the Shark. I would buy another LS2 tomorrow.
To be honest I mainly ride with it flipped back, more so when I'm riding the Burgman because of the Givi screen protection but it's nice to have the option to use it as a full face when it's raining, not that it rains much in the UK. I'd love one over in Spain also but they are quite expensive over there, my plan was to take it over in the motorhome as I have a bike on the back and leave it there and buy another for UK when I got back but the covid scuppered plans somewhat. I made sure I tried both before I bought and I preffered the LS2, as I recall it was easier to flip than the Shark, when on the move. Try them both before you buy, you might prefer the Shark. I would buy another LS2 tomorrow.
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Thank you very much for getting back to me with your "heads on" feedback cooperman ... exactly what I was looking for. I've tried on the LS2 Valiant II lid and it seems to fit me very well. I'd love to try the new Shark EVO GT on too but nobody within a 5 hour riding radius seems to have one that I can try on. Apparently the new Shark GT is easier to manipulate when moving over its predecessor.
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All this talk about flip over helmets made me order LS2 valiant II in titan matte, shame on you guys 😁😁I have never needed to use the flip up while at speed, only at a stop.
So when stopped, I can fire up my 'Hookah' * with my helmet on. The wind blows my matches out at speed so do not need the flip up part then.
*Borkum Riff Black Cavendish
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After you receive and use it for a while, you are obligated to post your review of the Valiant II you know! That comes with the territory ... lol
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Sure, when i come home mid June, i will post few pictures here in few days when my wife receives it
G'day I have a LS2 VALIANT II When I bought it I tried on a large and thought it was okay especially since the salesperson there saying oh yes perfect fit looks good. I was going off what I usually wore with my open face which was a large. Anyhow the sales guy kinda rushing me in a roundabout sort of way I bought it.
Two days later I was back, different sales guy, I told him that I found even though my open face was a large I bought an XL LS2 VALIANT II fitted much better. At least the salesperson had the knowledge to recommend the size up. Lucky for me he knew his job. Had no problems with it.
Fitted the new Sena Parani M10 headset so I can chat with the handbrake while we're riding along. She's happy with her VALIANT. So I'm happy. Nice helmets and the Sena headsets I got with all the gear on it for less than $200 for the pair that's way less than all the other Sena's
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I've had the LS2 for a couple of months.
The only issue I have is that the sun visor doesn't stay in the slider mechanism very well when stretched the helmet while putting on.
Not a big problem but bothersome at times
These are very strong claims about flip-over helmets, offered with no supporting facts. I'd be interested to see links to real data, lab-controlled crash tests, etc.
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Problem with flip overs is that they flip over! They offer no face protection (flipped over) when that idiot in the tin box pulls out right in front of you, and you go over the top.
Been there, got the t-shirt, and scars. That Burgman screen is to keep the wind and rain off. Nothing more. So if you want it flipped over most of the time, why not have an open face?
They sell open face helmets as "scooter helmets" -Why? Are you less likely to fall on your chin if you are knocked from one?
Been there, got the t-shirt, and scars. That Burgman screen is to keep the wind and rain off. Nothing more. So if you want it flipped over most of the time, why not have an open face?
They sell open face helmets as "scooter helmets" -Why? Are you less likely to fall on your chin if you are knocked from one?
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In my research, I discovered some interesting test data provided by the SHARP organization out of the UK. FYI - they refer to modular helmets as "system" helmets.
SHARP Helmet Testing - UK
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That thar is sum REALLY GOOD info! thanks!
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Long-Time Modular Helmet Wearer Here:
FWIW, I've been wearing modular, AKA flip-up, helmets for about two decades now, and here are my comments.
History:
I started street riding back in 1997, when I was 49. Before that, I had ridden dirt bikes off-road as a teenager, but that was it.
For the first few years of street riding, being already old enough to have accumulated a tiny bit of wisdom, I started right off with full-face helmets. My starting-off routine was: take off glasses, and put them on the bike's seat; put on helmet; pick up glasses off the ground, where they blown or otherwise just fallen off; put glasses on. Also, if it was raining at the time, the glasses got wet(ter) in the process.
Since that wasn't too satisfactory a procedure, I was an early user of flip-ups. I've just tried to piece together a list from old receipts, emails, etc., and here are my purchases, as best I can reconstruct this chronological list:
Wearing:
I never wear a flip-up in anything but the locked-down position while riding. I appreciate the convenience of not having to remove glasses when putting the helmet on or taking it off, the convenience of getting a little more air when stopping for gas. Or maybe just keeping the helmet on when going into a quik-e-mart to get some cold Gatorade, and so forth.
If you're old enough to remember this: I also liked to be able to have a quick, clear, chat with a toll collector, to ask for directions, back in the day.
These helmets, however far back on your head the flip-up mechanism goes, certainly cannot afford near-full-face protection levels when not locked in place. If protecting your jaw and related areas doesn't matter to you, I wonder why we're even discussing these helmets. Might as get a three-quarter helmet.
(I hope I didn't just come across as a holier-than-thou type of person, regarding rider protection. It's all about personal decisions of trade-offs. I don't ride in MotoGP-level gear, such as those plastic boots, full leathers, and you can buy the air-bag vests and jackets commercially these days. I do always wear: gloves; the helmet; and an armored jacket. And most of the time: motorcycle boots, Kevlar jeans, and Bohn armor. So in anything less than MotoGP gear, no one should be putting themselves on a pedestal, IMO. And if you look at those pros, you'll really see what chipmunk-like cheeks they have in their helmets, which is also way tighter than I have helmets fit.)
Where were we ... ?
With the newer models, I also never have just the sun visor down. That is, those sun visors are meant to block light, not, say, stones. So I always have the shield proper -- the clear outer one -- down (and typically raised to the first notch, for airflow). And then the sun visor is worked independently of that.
Fit:
I have what I think the helmet articles refer to as an "oval"-shaped head. As others have said, there's no substitute for trying on helmets. And I think it's a nice courtesy to buy a helmet where you're trying one on.
I'm fortunate to be able to attend the Americade rally (about an hour's ride for me) most years. They have a huge vendor area, and I wind up buying most of my helmets there. If you're able to attend a large rally or motorcycle trade show, I recommend those for your purchases.
Ventilation:
One of the reasons I periodically get new helmets is a quest for better ventilation. It's never great, and it always seems to be optimal only when leaned way over on an unfaired sportbike, anyway. I've long had the opinion that if it's incredibly hot out, then it's probably too hot to go riding in the first place.
(Another reason, of course, was the introduction of those sun visors. I've also been somewhat following the introduction of the "Transitions"-like outer visors, but I'm still not convinced they change quickly enough when entering tunnels.)
A few years ago at Americade, Shoei was allowing helmet trials during the various demo rides that the bike manufacturers hosted. That was a first (and possibly a last), and was a nice treat. I got to try out a Neotec; it was a good helmet, but I was not overwhelmed by it. I was hoping to be, um, blown away by its ventilation properties, but was not. As I say, these work best in a racing crouch, with no windshield at all, but that is not how I ride (even if I am a look-over rider, when it comes to windshields).
Noise Level:
The noise level is largely irrelevant to me, although it matters to some folks. I wear hearing aids off the bike, and for many years I've been wearing custom-molded ear plugs when riding. I'm trying to preserve what hearing I have left, but also you feel much more relaxed, less worn out, at the end of long day's ride when you haven't been subjected to wind noise for hours.
I started out getting molded plugs at the bike shows (from the same vendors who often attend hunting shows, I've learned, if that floats your boat better). This entails haveing a bubble-gum-like substance put in your ears, and sitting still for about 15 minutes. It works well, and the trick here is a quarter-turn twist when putting them in or taking them out.
I think it was about six years ago that I switched to full silicone plugs. I got these at my hearing-aid office; they took a mold, similar to what the trade-show vendors do, except that the mold was then sent out-of-house to a hearing-aid vendor, to make the silicone plugs from that (as opposed to the bubble-gum's being the actual final product). These work even better, and are even more comfortable.
Here's a pic I took five years ago, for some forum post discussion on that (and the hearing aids, lower right, have since been replaced by a newer model):
![93552]()
I wear the silicones for any ride longer than a trip to a local hardware store (and for those short rides, I just leave my hearing aids in, but turn them off).
Protection:
Back to helmets proper.
I think there was some plastic locking pin use back in the early days, but I'm pretty sure it's all metal pin use these days, at least in the non-cheapo brands.
Ideally, you also want to have the chin bar padded, like the rest of the helmet. For some reason, my current N100-5 doesn't do that, but at least it's not hard plastic there -- it's thick, and has some give -- and I like the rest of the helmet.
I've done four "Non-Sportbike" track days over the last few years. These were originally put on by Tony's Track Days here in the northeast, but have now been spun off to Ken Condon's Riding in the Zone courses. See Non-Sportbike Track Day Training (and if you go about halfway down that page, that's a pic of me on Big Red, my Victory bagger).
In the discussion of RIDING GEAR on that page -- this is not a place for jeans, for instance -- there is this paragraph:
Helmets must be FULL-FACED. High quality modular helmets will be allowed but must remain in the locked position when on track.
When I first started out doing this, I had the N90. I emailed ahead, to make sure that this was on their acceptable list, and it was. So there's that.
And so I don't feel undesirably unprotected with the modulars, but, as these instructors note, we're talking about riding in the "locked position."
~~~~~
Now, for something completely different, regarding an earlier post here:
What happened is that a guy by the name of Rick Korchak founded the site, and was its sole proprietor. He wrote many of the articles himself, or with a couple of frequent co-authors. He also outsourced many articles to a bunch of stringers, which is how I came to know him; I wrote about a dozen articles for wBW (for "modest stipends," which Rick also described to me as "Not much, but 'better than a sharp stick in the eye'").
In July 2017, Rick decided to retire from what had become his retirement job, and sold wBW to a corporate outfit. And, yep, I certainly agree that wBW is "not the same" anymore (and, despite an initial invitation, I haven't written for the new owner). You can read about it here, straight from the horse's mouth:
FWIW, I've been wearing modular, AKA flip-up, helmets for about two decades now, and here are my comments.
History:
I started street riding back in 1997, when I was 49. Before that, I had ridden dirt bikes off-road as a teenager, but that was it.
For the first few years of street riding, being already old enough to have accumulated a tiny bit of wisdom, I started right off with full-face helmets. My starting-off routine was: take off glasses, and put them on the bike's seat; put on helmet; pick up glasses off the ground, where they blown or otherwise just fallen off; put glasses on. Also, if it was raining at the time, the glasses got wet(ter) in the process.
Since that wasn't too satisfactory a procedure, I was an early user of flip-ups. I've just tried to piece together a list from old receipts, emails, etc., and here are my purchases, as best I can reconstruct this chronological list:
- Nolan's first modular, I think, purchased c. 1999.
- Airoh (which was, I think, one of the names used by Jarrow, along with, later, Caberg), c. 2003.
- Caberg "Justissimo," c. 2007; this was my first flip-up with an internal sun visor (included on all that followed, too).
- Nolan N90.
- Nolan N100-5, 2018.
Wearing:
I never wear a flip-up in anything but the locked-down position while riding. I appreciate the convenience of not having to remove glasses when putting the helmet on or taking it off, the convenience of getting a little more air when stopping for gas. Or maybe just keeping the helmet on when going into a quik-e-mart to get some cold Gatorade, and so forth.
If you're old enough to remember this: I also liked to be able to have a quick, clear, chat with a toll collector, to ask for directions, back in the day.
These helmets, however far back on your head the flip-up mechanism goes, certainly cannot afford near-full-face protection levels when not locked in place. If protecting your jaw and related areas doesn't matter to you, I wonder why we're even discussing these helmets. Might as get a three-quarter helmet.
(I hope I didn't just come across as a holier-than-thou type of person, regarding rider protection. It's all about personal decisions of trade-offs. I don't ride in MotoGP-level gear, such as those plastic boots, full leathers, and you can buy the air-bag vests and jackets commercially these days. I do always wear: gloves; the helmet; and an armored jacket. And most of the time: motorcycle boots, Kevlar jeans, and Bohn armor. So in anything less than MotoGP gear, no one should be putting themselves on a pedestal, IMO. And if you look at those pros, you'll really see what chipmunk-like cheeks they have in their helmets, which is also way tighter than I have helmets fit.)
Where were we ... ?
With the newer models, I also never have just the sun visor down. That is, those sun visors are meant to block light, not, say, stones. So I always have the shield proper -- the clear outer one -- down (and typically raised to the first notch, for airflow). And then the sun visor is worked independently of that.
Fit:
I have what I think the helmet articles refer to as an "oval"-shaped head. As others have said, there's no substitute for trying on helmets. And I think it's a nice courtesy to buy a helmet where you're trying one on.
I'm fortunate to be able to attend the Americade rally (about an hour's ride for me) most years. They have a huge vendor area, and I wind up buying most of my helmets there. If you're able to attend a large rally or motorcycle trade show, I recommend those for your purchases.
Ventilation:
One of the reasons I periodically get new helmets is a quest for better ventilation. It's never great, and it always seems to be optimal only when leaned way over on an unfaired sportbike, anyway. I've long had the opinion that if it's incredibly hot out, then it's probably too hot to go riding in the first place.
(Another reason, of course, was the introduction of those sun visors. I've also been somewhat following the introduction of the "Transitions"-like outer visors, but I'm still not convinced they change quickly enough when entering tunnels.)
A few years ago at Americade, Shoei was allowing helmet trials during the various demo rides that the bike manufacturers hosted. That was a first (and possibly a last), and was a nice treat. I got to try out a Neotec; it was a good helmet, but I was not overwhelmed by it. I was hoping to be, um, blown away by its ventilation properties, but was not. As I say, these work best in a racing crouch, with no windshield at all, but that is not how I ride (even if I am a look-over rider, when it comes to windshields).
Noise Level:
The noise level is largely irrelevant to me, although it matters to some folks. I wear hearing aids off the bike, and for many years I've been wearing custom-molded ear plugs when riding. I'm trying to preserve what hearing I have left, but also you feel much more relaxed, less worn out, at the end of long day's ride when you haven't been subjected to wind noise for hours.
I started out getting molded plugs at the bike shows (from the same vendors who often attend hunting shows, I've learned, if that floats your boat better). This entails haveing a bubble-gum-like substance put in your ears, and sitting still for about 15 minutes. It works well, and the trick here is a quarter-turn twist when putting them in or taking them out.
I think it was about six years ago that I switched to full silicone plugs. I got these at my hearing-aid office; they took a mold, similar to what the trade-show vendors do, except that the mold was then sent out-of-house to a hearing-aid vendor, to make the silicone plugs from that (as opposed to the bubble-gum's being the actual final product). These work even better, and are even more comfortable.
Here's a pic I took five years ago, for some forum post discussion on that (and the hearing aids, lower right, have since been replaced by a newer model):
I wear the silicones for any ride longer than a trip to a local hardware store (and for those short rides, I just leave my hearing aids in, but turn them off).
Protection:
Back to helmets proper.
I think there was some plastic locking pin use back in the early days, but I'm pretty sure it's all metal pin use these days, at least in the non-cheapo brands.
Ideally, you also want to have the chin bar padded, like the rest of the helmet. For some reason, my current N100-5 doesn't do that, but at least it's not hard plastic there -- it's thick, and has some give -- and I like the rest of the helmet.
I've done four "Non-Sportbike" track days over the last few years. These were originally put on by Tony's Track Days here in the northeast, but have now been spun off to Ken Condon's Riding in the Zone courses. See Non-Sportbike Track Day Training (and if you go about halfway down that page, that's a pic of me on Big Red, my Victory bagger).
In the discussion of RIDING GEAR on that page -- this is not a place for jeans, for instance -- there is this paragraph:
Helmets must be FULL-FACED. High quality modular helmets will be allowed but must remain in the locked position when on track.
When I first started out doing this, I had the N90. I emailed ahead, to make sure that this was on their acceptable list, and it was. So there's that.
And so I don't feel undesirably unprotected with the modulars, but, as these instructors note, we're talking about riding in the "locked position."
~~~~~
Now, for something completely different, regarding an earlier post here:
I think webBikeWorld's main helmet-review page these days starts here: Motorcycle Helmet Reviews Archives | webBikeWorld
What happened is that a guy by the name of Rick Korchak founded the site, and was its sole proprietor. He wrote many of the articles himself, or with a couple of frequent co-authors. He also outsourced many articles to a bunch of stringers, which is how I came to know him; I wrote about a dozen articles for wBW (for "modest stipends," which Rick also described to me as "Not much, but 'better than a sharp stick in the eye'").
In July 2017, Rick decided to retire from what had become his retirement job, and sold wBW to a corporate outfit. And, yep, I certainly agree that wBW is "not the same" anymore (and, despite an initial invitation, I haven't written for the new owner). You can read about it here, straight from the horse's mouth:
webBikeWorld News
Change of Ownership July 5, 2017 - Here's some important news, webBikeWorld fans! I launched webBikeWorld in 1999 and after more than 18 years of continuous labor on this website, I'd like to let you know that
www.webbikeworld.com
BINGO! We have a winner! Great post.
I learned a long time ago that the biggest danger with a modular or flip up/flip back helmet is what it does to your neck while riding with the chin bar up or back. Aside from the obvious face protection... or lack thereof, it's about inertia. When that chin bar mass is on top or behind the helmet it is putting a massive amount of strain on your neck while your bike is moving. This strain is not likely to be noticed right away but after a long time it adds up and the result is to having neck spine issues that may be severe or possibly, hopefully, not so severe. The other issue related to inertia and also to having an extra appendage where it should not be for the designed protection of the helmet is what has been seen in accidents. There is a much greater risk that you will end up with neck damage or even a broken neck should you be forced to exit the bike while riding. The chin bar being up or back has a much greater chance to catch or impact... something... (the curb, a rock, a post, a clump of dirt, a deep crack in the pavement, etc.).
I agree with what others have said and each of you choose for yourselves what risks you want to deal with. It's all your choice. I prefer to reduce my risks a little more than some in spite of the fact that I still ride. And that is more risk than riding in a cage. So there is that. But I still will do what I can to manage the risks I am willing to expose myself to and that is a big part of what riding safely is all about. I'm with Bill and don't feel the need to go full MotoGP for my gear, but I'm also not doing track racing style riding. Not that braving the high (enough) speeds of modern highways can't be just as dangerous sometimes.
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Thank you for the kind words.
The track is generally much safer than real life, so to speak, despite the higher speeds (and I've read over the years about some pro racers who never ride on the street -- too dangerous, they say). No cross traffic, no head-on traffic, no pedestrians, etc., and generally plenty of run-off room. And in the case of the track days I've done: two ambulances, no waiting.
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