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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Searched and could not find good info/results on the Malossi white spring, from my previous experieces the white spring is just slightly stiffer(10-13%) than OEM and better material. I had previously installed DRP 18 sliders(new black material) and was fairly happy with results, also did full CVT clean, lube and new belt,etc on my used 5k/2014 because of age, otherwise everything was like new. In any case, I was happy with improved low speed response/acceleration and the overdive shift/rpm drop was nice, but I felt it was falling short of powerband as it was barely hitting 6k on WOT takeoffs and it was kinda sluggish past 60mph. Also felt slow down-shifting when reducing throttle around turns, etc.

Got Malossi spring for $20, worth a try, happy to report it works brilliantly !!, my WOT rpms from a dead stop briefly jumps to 6.4k settling down to 6.2k until the "sliders shift" wich is nearly identical as before at aprox. 55-60mph, while trying to maintain a steady speed/mph on mostly flat road, rpms where aprox. [email protected],800, [email protected], [email protected],500. Throttle is more responsive overall, way less lag when accelerating from 70mph + as rpms climb pass 6k more into power band.

Did my normal 15 mile loop thru forest backrods, etc., at fairly fast pace, display shows 56 mpg, no real difference than before !!

Pics of my DIY spring compressor, etc., sorry for quality, working at night to beat Florida Heat !!


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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
I also noticed that it was fairly easy to squeeze the belt by hand, to run down variator nut with original spring, is harder with the Malossi but doable, personally I think the OEM spring is too weak, possibly to match OEM rollers ?
IMO*/IME*, the 18g DRP sliders where over powering the stock spring, keep in mind that sliders act like they are heavier compared to same weight rollers, etc.
Really didn't like rust on OEM spring, rust is never good, even and old Linhai 300 spring I got looks better :censored: so a better and cheaper option works for me. $20. (y)

* In my opinion * In my experience :rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Filled up this morning and reset tripmeter, 25% city, 75% highway, driving for aprox. 3 hours, with a few stops, returned to same pump/gas station with118 miles and took 1.9 gal to same level on fuel neck, so 62 mpg, I have fairly new tires, Givi W/S and 230lbs B/Weight. Drove mostly secondary highways around 55-60 mph. Real happy with outcome.
 

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I've been reluctant to increase the spring tension due to concerns about possible increased belt wear (maybe just in my mind?), but your results do seem attractive, especially having a little more torque for passing. +13% seems pretty reasonable. Do you have a link for where you got the spring?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've been reluctant to increase the spring tension due to concerns about possible increased belt wear (maybe just in my mind?), but your results do seem attractive, especially having a little more torque for passing. +13% seems pretty reasonable. Do you have a link for where you got the spring?

In my opinion and experience with other scooters the oem torque/contra spring is just adequate(weak) in most cases and it rusting so easily on the B400 is questionable quality, yes belt wear is a concern, but I usually estimate about 75% of oem belt change interval, in any case I do CVT cleaning/dusting and belt wear check at oil change/yearly, usually people shy away from torque spring because is more complicated. The Malossi spring is way better quality and will brake in/settle in and will be close to a oem new spring tension. Of course your rear pulley condition/proper lubrication is very important also for smooth operation, BTW I tried to compress white spring with feet just to test, totally possible, just be carefull, I like my diy press better (y):cool:

Got it here, they have some good deals, just select your year model, etc. Scooterpartsco.com
 
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Thanks for that info. I have to do some CVT maintenance soon and want to change some springs in the DP clutch so I can do all that at one time, plus change the drive oil.

I didn't fully understand your drill press method...sometimes it was below the table and another pic it was above it. No matter though, I didn't have a problem before using my feet so will just do that again, as long as the new spring doesn't feel dangerous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
What were the improvements in performance with the new Spring?
The Malossi spring works better than expected in all areas, it pushes WOT acceleration rpm's more into powerband and scooter is faster, the downshifts are more crisp and better engine braking, etc., etc. The DRP sliders still push into overdive, just at sligthly higher rpm's, but at same speed 55-60mph, OEM was 6,800 at 70mph, now is 5,500 at 70mph.

WOT rpms from a dead stop briefly jumps to 6.4k settling down to 6.2k until the "sliders shift" wich is nearly identical as before at aprox. 55-60mph, while trying to maintain a steady speed/mph on mostly flat road, rpms where aprox. [email protected],800, [email protected], [email protected],500. Throttle is more responsive overall, way less lag when accelerating from 70mph + as rpms climb faster pass 6k more into power band. My mileage did not seemed to suffer.

PSA, I only recomend this mod with 18/19 gr DRP sliders, regular/stock rollers won't have the mechanical advantage of the sliders to push against the stronger spring.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I didn't fully understand your drill press method...sometimes it was below the table and another pic it was above it. No matter though, I didn't have a problem before using my feet so will just do that again, as long as the new spring doesn't feel dangerous.
To remove the old spring, I just put rear pulley assy on drill base and just pushed clutch down enough to spin nut with fingers, I had already loosened nut some with impact driver, my drill press only has 2 in. travel, I needed aprox. 3.5 in. to compress the longer Malossi spring when installing, I used the movable table as a temporary stop plate, push down partially, lock table, use a longer spacer/socket, loosen table, push down, lock table, etc.
In any case is totally possible to do with feet while sitting in a chair (y)
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
PSA, I only recomend this mod with 18/19 gr DRP sliders, regular/stock rollers won't have the mechanical advantage of the sliders to push against the stronger spring.
I kinda misinformed with above, should have been this...

PSA, I only recomend this mod with 18/19 gr DRP sliders, regular/stock rollers won't have the mechanical/design advantage of the sliders to push into "OVERDRIVE" even against the stronger spring.

IMO the DRP sliders really make the B400 a "Touring Scooter" and the Malossi spring just makes it better, BTW the white spring is often referred as the "Touring Spring".
 
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I had everything apart in the transmission about two weeks ago. I thought about replacing the spring but wasn't quite sure what it would do. Next time I go in there. I have the Dr. Pulley hit clutch and 19 gram sliders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Had a chance to do some more testing today and take pics, built a one time use holder :unsure: for one of my old cell phones, actually worked good, maybe and idea for a better one ;), main materials, wood dowel, lot's of duct tape, rubber hose, rubber bands and zip tyes, :geek: IAC* I have fairly new tires, Givi W/S, 230lbs B/Weight, 90F OAT*, did quite a few WOT* takeoffs and acceleration test, etc(notice mileage in last pic :() Have to say I'm really happy with the way the bike stays in the powerband and accelerates more quickly, in the other had driving it "Normally" should return fair fuel economy, IAC*, I'll take better acceleration over 5mpg lost overall (y)

IAC= In Any Case , OAT= Outside Air Temp, WOT= Wide Open Throttle, JIC :whistle:

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Just one question...how did you get that writing on and off your dash so quickly? Lol.*

Those numbers look very similar to what I'm doing with the (possibly non-standard) 17gm sliders. I assume it has stock spring, but who knows what the PO* had changed. He had done a lot of electrical mods but no obvious evidence of variator changes. IAC*, I've got a white contra spring coming and will definitely give a report after installation.

*Lol = I made a funny. PO = guy who screwed things up before I got it. IAC = what-the-heck-ever
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Those numbers look very similar to what I'm doing with the (possibly non-standard) 17gm sliders. I assume it has stock spring, but who knows what the PO* had changed. He had done a lot of electrical mods but no obvious evidence of variator changes. IAC*, I've got a white contra spring coming and will definitely give a report after installation.
Yes, the 17gr wt.. will feel "similar" in performance to my set-up, you still have possibility of belt slap or slipping with stock torque/contra spring !!. One of the basic formulas for CVT overall performance increase is 10% lighter weights and 10% stronger torque/contra spring, better with sliders because of overdrive. If your going into CVT, might as well clean/inspect/lube, etc. Good Luck :cool:
 

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Since getting into it is half the battle, I have a fairly long list of things to do while it's all apart. Thanks for all the info.
 
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When my Dr. Pully hit clutch engages sometimes it feels like it "hops" when it engages. Best explanation is the clutch shoes grab and then releases and re-grabs the drum. Either I have to lower the rpm when I take off to make a smoother transition by more control of the throttle or by nailing the throttle it eliminates the hop or skip feel. Is that do to the color of the springs on the Hit clutch or the torque spring?
 

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When my Dr. Pully hit clutch engages sometimes it feels like it "hops" when it engages. Best explanation is the clutch shoes grab and then releases and re-grabs the drum. Either I have to lower the rpm when I take off to make a smoother transition by more control of the throttle or by nailing the throttle it eliminates the hop or skip feel. Is the do to the color of the springs on the Hit clutch or the torque spring?
Cant say for sure what your issue is, but I occasionally have a similar issue with mine. (Don't think it's the torque spring though.) Background: after installing the HiT clutch, I was expecting a definite lockup feel but there was nothing different from stock. Since I wasn't sure if it was locking or not I put the lightest pillow springs in to lock it as quickly as possible. I think with a rapid takeoff it's locking too soon and feels grabby. One thing I'm going to do when I'm in there is put back in the default springs, or maybe one size heavier to see if that smooths it out.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
When my Dr. Pully hit clutch engages sometimes it feels like it "hops" when it engages. Best explanation is the clutch shoes grab and then releases and re-grabs the drum. Either I have to lower the rpm when I take off to make a smoother transition by more control of the throttle or by nailing the throttle it eliminates the hop or skip feel. Is the do to the color of the springs on the Hit clutch or the torque spring?
Sorry, but besides installing several Hit Clutch for other people, never had my own, they were installed with the stock settings and usually a stronger contra spring, etc., never heard really bad things about the ones I put in, but they do feel different, can squeal and really like aggressive takeoffs, but the same is true for any clutch, the best technique is to blip throttle and lock clutch and roll throttle back. Now I know that they grab/lock up earlier and can overpower a weak oem torque spring, whats your rpm doing when you feel this hop. :unsure:

Kinda wish the B400 had a "V" belt light like the SW600 it will come on when belt slips (y)
 
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