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Discussion Starter #1
Back in December of last year I picked up a used, excellent condition,Leo Vince exhaust system (LV) for my K3 400, on eBay, for $158.06 shipped. And had been running it since then until a just a month ago when I installed a new rear tire.

In order to remove the rear wheel the exhaust must be removed, and unlike the stock exhaust removing the LV requires that the cap screws at the exhaust as there is no head pipe--the LV bolts up directly to the exhaust port as it does not use a separate head pipe. This was the third time I had removed those screws, once to install the LV, once before to replace the rear tire, and this time--and at each of these I had wondered almost aloud when breaking the screws loose whether this was the time the threads in the head would come out with the screw. I had used high-temp anti-seize at each re-installation and torqued to spec, but each time they were a bull to break loose.

So I determined I would replace the stock head pipe and exhaust/muffler. That was 600 miles ago, let me tell you what I have found since then.

Other than the usual placebo effect that increasing intake and/or exhaust noise usually produces, the Leo Vince exhaust system does nothing. There is no additional power, the powerband is unchanged, there is no effect on fuel economy one way or the other--just more noise. A LOT more with with the silencer insert removed, noticeably more with it installed--so much more that I had forgotten how quiet and pleasurable the stock system was.

So there you have it. The Leo Vince is being relegated to the attic; I am keeping it in case the OEM unit decides to break up internally as had the system on the scoot when I got it--which of course it will not as long as I have the LV in the attic...
 

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The Leo Vince exhaust system on my '05-400
has a slip-joint with a clamp-strap right in front
of the muffler...easy to remove the muffler
without removing the exhaust pipe attached
to the cylinder head.
Different year of manufacture, I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You can remove the muffler on mine, however the pipe has to come off (actually you have to loosen one and remove one of the cap crews at the exhaust port and swing the pipe upward) to get clearance to to remove the muffler mounting bracket and then the rear wheel. I do not like having to break those free just to change the tire. It was not Suzuki's intention either, hence the little headpipe.

Have you found a way to pull the wheel with out loosening the pipe? I tried and tried to do it with no success, couldn't even get the lower bracket bolt out as it was too long to remove without moving the LV pipe...

If I use the LV again I will cut it, weld on a flange, and use the OEM headpipe. I still have the flanged pipe from the stock exhaust that come on my '03.
 

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On my Leo Vince exhaust system, the cast iron header-pipe
attached to the cylinder head was removed...the new Leo
Vince exhaust pipe goes from the cylinder head to the muffler...
one single piece of stainless steel pipe.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Duster said:
On my Leo Vince exhaust system, the cast iron header-pipe
attached to the cylinder head was removed...the new Leo
Vince exhaust pipe goes from the cylinder head to the muffler...
one single piece of stainless steel pipe.
Yes, that is my point.

To further expand, I was unable to remove the muffler support bracket--to allow the rear tire to be changed--without freeing the Leo Vince head pipe, by removing/loosening the two cap screws at the exhaust port--which is something I do not like doing as once those threads are damaged it would likely involve removing the engine, and hoping there is enough "meat", to install Helicoils or the like.

Has anyone managed to remove the rear wheel on a pre-'07 400 without loosening/removing the Leo Vince head-pipe?

----------------------------------------
BTW, the stock head pipe is a steel weldment, not cast iron...
 

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My LV 4-Road has a longer pipe which attaches to the muffler using a clamp, Undo clamp, unscrew 3 bolts from muffler to exhaust support bracket, tug the muffler to the rear and I have access to the rear hub.

No requirement to unscrew the head pipe from the barrel studs.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
gary said:
My LV 4-Road has a longer pipe which attaches to the muffler using a clamp, Undo clamp, unscrew 3 bolts from muffler to exhaust support bracket, tug the muffler to the rear and I have access to the rear hub.

No requirement to unscrew the head pipe from the barrel studs.
On my 2003 this is not possible--no way, no how. The LV pipe blocks removal of two of the three muffler support bracket bolts. The support bracket must be removed to remove the rear wheel...
 

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I installed the Leo Vince exhaust system on my scoot, I love the extra noise without the baffle. I don't think my neighbors like it though, and they have 2 Harleys so go figure. My stock exhaust rotted out on the inside, my plan is to take it to a local muffler shop and have them cut it in half and see if it can be repaired. I may get tiered of the drone of the Leo Vince exhaust system :?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The stock muffler is just mild steel, and a beefy chunk of it too, so riding mostly short trips at lower speeds (like the previous owner of my '03 did, 12.3k miles in 7 years) will cause it to rust from the inside out. Condensation from combustion (even more with ethanol fuel) will collect in it and never get boiled off, especially in colder weather. Just after I got my scoot in May of 2011 I got a used replacement muffler from an '05 that had 38k miles on it and it is like new inside. Having the benefit of being retired and generally in no hurry, I very rarely if ever ride my scoot fewer than 5 miles per trip.

I take long way getting there and the long way home...
 

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Hi cliffyk,
A nice practical feedback report on a LV exhaust system. :thumbup: Often all we hear is the manufacturers data being fed back into the forum by enthusiastic riders with the actual practicalities being overlooked. I suppose at the end of the day, who wants to spend lots of money then admit it is not all fine and rosy.
As you said to remove the rear wheel you have to 1st disconnect the exhaust from the cylinder head which is not the best idea or easiest to do once it has been on for a while. LV obviously had feedback and changed the exhaust for later models but to be honest it should have been a design requirement right from the start. Makes you wonder just how ‘well designed’ they are?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you, I agree, all they had to do was make their pipe bolt to that tiny little stock "head pipe"--it would not even cost any more to have made it that way. If I ever have to use the LV I have I intend to make a flange, cut the LV pipe, and do just that.
 

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Without the baffle it is a bit harsh and crackling, I have installed the baffle to mellow it out a bit but you are right it is loud, I notice people that are on the street look now to see what is coming. Maybe now some drivers will hear me in their blind spots. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #14
12string said:
Without the baffle it is a bit harsh and crackling, I have installed the baffle to mellow it out a bit but you are right it is loud, I notice people that are on the street look now to see what is coming. Maybe now some drivers will hear me in their blind spots. :D
Yours sounds the same as the "4road" model I have, not a bad sound, just too loud for my taste...
 

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I finally got tiered of the constant "rap, rap, rap," of the LV exhaust so decided to try to resurrect my stock muffler. I cut the muffler in half at the forward most weld only to find that the main pipe through, is welded at the end. I ground off the weld and pulled the muffler apart. I was evident a this point that the internals of the baffling system of the Burger 400 was beyond help. The muffler was not rusted out, rather the internal welds had failed and pieces had come loose and were rattling around inside the main baffle chamber. By the time I got to the welds that were broken it was clear to me that the stock exhaust was history. Time for Plan B, I remove one of the larger baffles out of the stock exhaust and the welded it to the slide in baffle of the LV exhaust, the result is a much more mellow tone and the loud blast upon initial acceleration is now a modest growl. The mod does not seem to affected the performance in any way, I haven't had a chance to run a tank of fuel through the scoot yet, but my money in on no MPG affect either. I think the neighbors are happier now when I leave in the early AM>. :thumbup:
I will try to post a video Saturday, not sure if the iPhone's mic will pick up the differences.
 

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Open muffler no Baffle. Click to play video:


Modified baffle.


Not sure if you can hear the difference but in reality there is a significant difference.
 

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Good job. I like the sound of the modified baffle better.
 

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Much quieter, and if I want loud, I just slide the modified baffle out, so I can ride with my Honda Davidson buddies. :lol:
 

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So the question still remains here guys,,,i am about to buy a grandturismo muffler for my 2005 ,,,is it really worth the money ,will you see a increase in anything? Any help will be appreciated,,,thanks in advance.
Bruno
 
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