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Discussion Starter #1
I am new to this forum, let me introduce myself, my name is Andy and I live in the UK.
I currently ride a Peugeot 125 Elyseo scooter and also a GSX-R1000 (slight difference! :lol:)
I owned a SV1000 before the Gixxer and started a company up making parts for sportsbikes etc

http://www.hamicad.co.uk

Secret confession, I love scooters!
I used to own a K2 Burgman 400, and loved it! it was one of the best bikes I have ever owned.
The current scooter I own (125 Peugeot) is used for commuting in all weathers, when the suns not out and I don't want to get the GSX-R1000 wet! :lol:
Now the 125 scoot is a great little scoot, but I do find it lacking a little, especially after owning the 400 burgman and feel I need something bigger to travel further afield.
I am now thinking about changing to another Burgman scooter.
Same old boring question, which one to buy....
The K4 has been updated quite a bit since the K2, the fuel injection sounds like a great idea, and I also like the twin headlights.
Do they both light up on low beam?
The worst 'problem' I had with the K2 was Carb Icing in the winter, would the fuel injection cure this?
One of my golden rules has always been to never buy the same bike twice, no matter how good they were! Is it worth breaking :lol:
And last but not least, the mighty 650, I love the looks and engine etc, but the one thing that scares me is the servicing times.
Is it as bad as they say?

Sorry for going on, but I thought I would get all the questions out in one go.

Thanks

Andy
 

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Hi Andy and first off welcome to the forum. Since your a litre Gixxer rider I would suggest the 650 for you. It still has the performance you seek and since you've had the 400 why not go bigger.

As far as icing goes with the fuel injection , it didn't happen to my bike. The coldest I rode was -4* celsius with a wind chill of -15* The Burgman 650 came right up to temperature and never faultered after a 45 minute commute home @ night........(shiver)

Since the 650 has been out in Europe for a full 2 years now I think the mechanics have seen a few now and are probably familiar with the shortcuts required to stripping the bodywork and getting down to servicing.

Good luck with your choice.
 

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By "servicing times" do you mean the intervals or the labor hours involved at a dealership?

Frankly, changing the oil, filter, air filter, tranny and final drive fluids on the 650 is not hard at all. I'm not a techie at all (English major) and I figured out how to do it.

As for servicing intervals, they're something like 4k miles between oil changes.

As for labor hours, there's really no reason to take it to the dealer until you get to 15K miles, when a valve adjustment is scheduled. And if, by the time you get to the 15k, you might be out of warranty (1 year here in the US), in which case take it to an independent who understand shim over bucket. (Buy the shop manual).

As for shim over bucket, my friend put over 34K miles on a Honda 900cc sport bike, never changed the coolant, never had the valves checked, and changed the oil maybe 3-4 times. And, horrifying as this sounds, he bought the cheapest Walmart oil he could find, something on the order of 69 cents a quart. Once in a while he would pull the plugs, regap and clean them. He never bought new plugs.
 

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Andy,

First question is: what sort of roads do you intend to use it on?.
I used to work in the City and had a race rep to play on at dry weekends (RVF400), and much like yourself bought a 125 (Aprilia SR125). Narrow, light, easy to ride, tough. If you intend to replace your 125 for the commute with something with more grunt, the 650 will be no use. I used to cruise down dual carriageways at 60mph, and BMW R1100s used to fly past at 70mph +, only to be caught and passed as soon as we met traffic. The 650 is easily as wide as a R1150RT.

Even the AN250/400 is wider than the Speedfight - but I'd probably say that their width is not such that you can't get throught gaps, but enough to not allow you to attempt going through gaps are are not really safe to pass through.

As you know, the AN400 will cruise at 85mph all day, in a bubble of air, and brakes in any weather extremely easily, powerfully and with great stability. So you can do the dual carriageway bit, the all weeather bit, and the commuting bit. And v.cheap to run. Go for the 400 is you intend to replace the 125 with something bigger that can go as far as you want, in comfort, and beyond the speed limit if you so desire.

I myself ride an 1100 Honda (143bhp at the rear tyre - similar to your GSXR) at the weekends solo, an RC45 on the track, a Burgman 650 when I camp or tour with the girlfriend, and a Honda Reflex ABS for the commute. I'm based in Tokyo now, and had orginally bought a 100cc scooter to commute around Tokyo - to mirror the SR125 in England. After 4 months I realised that there was a reason why big scooters (250/400) were such a popular class in Japan - they can really do everything. Sold the 100 to a close friend and never looked back. The Reflex 250 (Hondas equivalent to the AN250) and the other Japanese 250/400cc scooters are the best ways around any city, and can handle inter-city motorways, and touring too.

The K4 has bigger wheels, uprated brakes & suspension, and a larger internal carry space over the K2 - it's a marked difference, and a seriously competent all-rounder. The Yamaha Majesty is still the choice of Japanese youth, the Honda Relfex the choice of the style concious.

Buy the 650 if you are looking for an automatic tourer that will outgrunt the GSXR round town (yep, hard to believe but get a test ride - that's the electronic CVT transmission keeping the engine in the max torque zone all teh time) and piss on BMW R tourers for both comfort and performance. It handles far better than it deserves to. Think CVT bike as opposed to scooter. It is more expensive to run that an single cylinder swing-axel 250cc/400cc scooter.

Let me know if there is any input I can give. Good luck.

Lycheed
 

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Servicing

I just did the 600 mile service on my AN650. What a piece of cake. I thought it was going to be hard. Changing all fluids took about 45min. for my first time. The biggest potential headache is filling the transmission. I used a big syringe which holds 2oz. (60cc) of oil and put a rubber tube on the end. I had to fill it six tmes but it went in easy with no mess. Looked at the AN400 but for me and the riding I do (back and forth to work, to town and touring with the wife on the weekends) I didn't think it had enough getup and go. I wanted more power so I didn't feel like I was pushing it all the time at highway speeds. If mileage is a consideration, then deffinetly the AN400 is the way to go. Good luck on your decision. with either the 400 or the 650 you will be a winner.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all the replies, it has certainly given me something to think about!
Still not sure which way to go, 400 or 650.......
My sensible head says 400 and the not-so-sensible head says 650!
Quick question, is there an official workshop manual available for the 650? This would mean me getting my hands dirty, but I do know my way around a bike, last few years I have been bone idle and had my bikes serviced.
But if its as easy as members are saying, then it might be the 650...
Must admit, it sounds like a lot of fun!

Andy
 

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Normsthename said:
Thanks for all the replies, it has certainly given me something to think about!
Still not sure which way to go, 400 or 650.......
My sensible head says 400 and the not-so-sensible head says 650!
Quick question, is there an official workshop manual available for the 650? This would mean me getting my hands dirty, but I do know my way around a bike, last few years I have been bone idle and had my bikes serviced.
But if its as easy as members are saying, then it might be the 650...
Must admit, it sounds like a lot of fun!

Andy
Yes you can get the same service manual that the mechanics use. I have one and its great. If you get the 650 try your dealer or order one online at http://www.oneidasuzuki.com/
 

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Normsthename said:
I am new to this forum, let me introduce myself, my name is Andy and I live in the UK. (snipped)
Thanks

Andy
Hi Andy

Welcome indeed whereabouts in the UK?

NormanB
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi Andy
Welcome indeed whereabouts in the UK?
NormanB
Hi Norman

I live in Leicester, its a few miles from you!
What scoot have you got? (if any!)

Andy
 

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Andy

Burgman AN400 - imminent - just need to pass the motorsickle test :cry:

Yeah 170 miles ish is a bit far but not too far.

Bob Wilkinson on this forum is not far from you though (Memberlist, sort by user name and he is about No. 48 - at the moment).

Regards
NormanB
 

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Both the 400 or the 650 fuel injection will solve the carb icing problem.
There's no venturi to freeze cooled moisture onto with FI.

A few months ago I traded my 10 month old AN650K3 for an AN400K3
and I'm happy with the change.
The 400's drivetrain is not connected to dragging gears like the 650
and that makes for easier maneuvering while pushing.
The 650 is heavy enough and its dragging drivetrain makes it feel like
800 pounds when pushing it around a driveway.
Some riders have no problems with that but the webbing of my thumbs had hurt
alot when I had to push my 650 up a gental slope every time I parked it.

The 400 uses less oil, gasoline, one less spark plug and it's easier
than the 650 to pick back up if dropped. With no valve shims, the 400
is more friendly to tune it yourself.
As a 400 is braking-in, it gains more responsiveness and power.
The AN650's radial tires grip better on tight turns through sand and rain
but I'm adjusting with the 400 and slowing down.
A 400 owner can be first to laugh all the way to the bank if they
just pace themselves on acceleration and braking.

The 650 has fixed transmission braking when the throttle is released
and it can be annoying to control plus it "looks like" braking but without
brake lights (to cars) so a 650 rider needs to learn to coordinate lights.
Sometimes it's necessary to give a 650 'some' throttle while slowing
just to compensate for the dragging effect.
The 400 coasts while slowing without brakes and that gives it a more standard
feel. The 650 has awesome braking power but the 400's coupled
left brake makes for smoother stopping.

The 400 has aftermarket varator options to engage the transmission
differently with. The 650 has a pre-programmed ratio table in its
computerized (Denso) ECM module and no one has made a different ROM
for it so far.
Depending on how the 650's proprietary ROM has been embedded
on top of the fact that the ECM has also been potted, someone would
have to really think it through to reverse engineer the ECM code in
order to provide the riding public with different CVT gear ratios.

Imagine reprogramming the ECM so that sharp and fast twists of throttle
would automatically engage the Power Mode without having to setup the
button first. Plus, disengagement of the Auto Power Mode would take into
account acceleration rate and throttle position to do that for you too.
 

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ajwood said:
Imagine reprogramming the ECM so that sharp and fast twists of throttle
would automatically engage the Power Mode without having to setup the
button first. Plus, disengagement of the Auto Power Mode would take into
account acceleration rate and throttle position to do that for you too.
Great write up AJ.

Probably, an experienced MCU programmer could dump the ROM and massage the code, esp if he has some engine programming experience. But it would take a lot of testing and dyno work to make right.
 
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