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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, you're 100 miles from no where, and find that you've somehow run down your battery from all that cool electric riding gear. Can the bike be jump started, providing you were on a hill steep and long enough to get it up to speed or do you just start walking? I'm assuming due to extreme engine braking thru the tranny that these bikes don't coast to well. Comments?
 

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I tested this while my bike was still functional. Due to the cvt I couldnt get the bike to fire . I stopped at the top of a long hill near my place and killed the engine. I then started it rolling with the key and switches on ..........and nothing. At the bottom I just fired it up and rode away.
 

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No, No and thrice No.
The ONLY way is to get some kind motorist to get you started from their battery with jump leads.
 

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Good question, don't know the answer, hope someone else does..
- I do know it all depends on if you get the pistons moving- if you can it should start. the question is will the CVT engage and turn the motor ?
I don't think so because the speed of the wheel should have nothing to do with engaging the CVT
 

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The scenario is unlikely. The AN650 has a pretty substantial charging system (500W for the AN650 versus 360W for my DL1000 motorcycle). Even the motorcycle handles electric riding gear just fine though.

What will get you, is an electrical drain when the engine is not running. The most common way that this happens is when the rider accidentally truns the ignition switch past the "Lock" position when parking, and walks away with the parking light lit.

But the answers are correct. If you drain the battery, jumper cables are the answer.
 

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Jump Starting

Yes you can jump start with jumper cables but always rember :!: Connect the Positive cable first Negative Last. When you disconect the Negative is removed first and Positive last no mater what the conected units are the new electronics don't do well if you do otherwise. Kind of like a power surge.
 

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But how do you jump? I have seen those small jumper cables smoke & start to melt. Can & should you use the cigarette lighter to cigarette lighter
cables? If you jump from a car should the car's engine be running?
 

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Yes, I've got to know the answer to this one myself. Can I jump off my 650 just like I would my pickup. Just yesterday, for the first time, I left my key on and the engine off for about an hour. Walked back outside and noticed the lights were burning and I tried to crank it and it wouldn't say a word. I turned the key off, ran an errand, and tried again about two hours later and it cranked right up. But I still need to know if I can boost this thing off like I would my truck.
 

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I've used jumper cables a few times to start bikes and never had a problem with the small cables over-heating. I'd recommend that, if you're starting it using another bike, have the other bike running above idle with any accessories (radio, CB, driving lights) turned off so you don't run down that battery or possibly damage electrical circuits.
If you're using a car or truck battery to jump start your bike, I'd don't think it's necessary to have the car or truck running. That battery should have enough reserve to start a bike on a couple of trys, assuming it's just a battery problem.
One other pointer when jump starting a dead battery. It's sometimes best not to try to start the dead battery immediately after hooking up the cables. Wait a few minutes before trying to start it. This allows a slight charge to build up in the dead battery prior to trying to start. If the battery was completely dead, this extra charge can help get it started.

Don
 

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Mad Dog said:
...Can the bike be jump started, providing you were on a hill steep and long enough to get it up to speed...
You can "jump start" a Burgman with cables, as described in the posts above, but you can't "compression start" or "bump start" it. The rear wheel will just "freewheel" without the CVT engaging.

However, if you have even a little juice left in the battery, although not enough to start it, you may be able to crank it enough to get the CVT engaged for a compression start. I haven't tried it, but it might work.
 

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For safety reasons, big-scooters generally cannot be push-started. If you think about it, the reasons are obvious. If you were not forced to lock the rear brake every time you started the engine, you would run the risk of the torque of the engine driving the bike forward, and the rider not being ready for the surge and consequently unable to control it. This is a common reason for rider less collision on 49-125cc scooters, and due to the torque and size of the 250cc plus scooters engines, the rear brake must be locked to start the engine to avoid this.

Push-start = no go.

Be careful not to leave the trunk light on overnight if you don't use the bike daily...
 

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lycheed said:
...If you were not forced to lock the rear brake every time you started the engine, you would run the risk of the torque of the engine driving the bike forward, and the rider not being ready for the surge and consequently unable to control it....
Before I did my "Kill Switch Experiment" I shut down my engine several times to test the coasting ability (not much) of the 650. I restarted by slightly squeezing the brake lever while holding the starter button down.

I never needed to "lock the rear brake." Just a little brake, the same amount needed to activate the brake light, was enough to release the starter interlock. My switch may not be adjusted the same as everyone else's, of course.
 

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This is the explanation offered by the manufacturers since they began mass producing 250cc + big-scooters with handlebar operated rear brakes. It was often asked at first why they did not simply have a thumb starter without the need to tightly grip the rear brake (like a conventional bike), as due to the nature of the centrifugal clutch, the transmission would not be engaged at idle. However, in response the manufacturers cited the incidents reported to them of riders standing next to their machine, thumbing the starter, and the machine jumping out of their hands and crashing at best, or going into traffic or pedestrians at worst. These were with comparatively torque less 125cc 2 strokes. The manufacturers pointed to the massive difference in amount and delivery point of the torque of the 250cc single 4 stroke over the 125cc 2 stroke, making them potentially very dangerous if a rider turned the throttle at start-up (on a cold day, for instance) without this in-built safety feature.

Having spoken to a number of 125cc 2 stroke riders in the UK and Europe that suffered damage to their machines due to the centrifugal clutch engaging when the engine was (sometimes inadvertently) revved at start up, it makes sense.

I'm not sure that it's logical that manufacturers would design a system that simply required the rear lights to be illuminated, as I'm not convinced that following motorists need to be alerted to the fact that you are starting you engine via illuminated brake lights. Simply turning on the ignition would do that, as the rear lamps illuminated whenever the ignition is on.

Dealers invariably don’t set-up every bike identically, but this is the theory behind it.
 

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NormanB said:
No, No and thrice No.
The ONLY way is to get some kind motorist to get you started from their battery with jump leads.
Norm, from what I've been told you should only jump the battery from a cage if the engine on said vehicle is not running because the ouput of it's alternator is way to high for the motorcycle battery. I think that is why they use a trickle charger instead of a regular battery charger on scooter and motorcycle batteries. :roll:
 

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lycheed said:
...I'm not sure that it's logical that manufacturers would design a system that simply required the rear lights to be illuminated, as I'm not convinced that following motorists need to be alerted to the fact that you are starting you engine via illuminated brake lights....
Read my post again. I never suggested that the interlock was activated by the brake lights; I said, "I never needed to "lock the rear brake." Just a little brake, the same amount needed to activate the brake light, was enough to release the starter interlock." It was merely a comparative statement indicating the degree of brake movement I needed.
 

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Yes Brian, I understood what you wrote. May I humbly suggest that perhaps you didn’t understand what I wrote. If you re-read my post, you may find that what I was highlighting was that the system is in place for more than illuminating the rear light only – a point worth addressing as there is a safety argument for that being reason enough to make it necessary to grip the rear brake lever tightly when starting to engine.

My definition of “locking” the brake or “gripping it tightly” is that the brake is held in a fashion that makes the bike immovable. I don’t know about your 650, but I can illuminate the brake light on my 650 without transmitting hardly any braking force to the calipers whatsoever. I suggest that if your brake light doesn’t illuminate until you are applying tangible brake force, or that you can push your AN650 with the rear brake gripped tightly enough to allow the engine to be started, you should take it back to you dealer without delay and get them to have a look at it.

FYI. My 650 creeps when it cold starts - meaning that if you are maneuvering the machine with the engine on at cold, you will find it incredibly easy to push but very hard to stop... This is at around 1300rpm and possibly slightly dangerous for newer or less experienced riders that could be caught unawares, leading to a dangerous situation and expensive repairs. Imagine what could happen on an open throttle with a thumb on the starter.
 

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lycheed said:
...If you re-read my post, you may find that what I was highlighting was that the system is in place for more than illuminating the rear light only – a point worth addressing as there is a safety argument for that being reason enough...
I think it is obvious that the brake/starter interlock "is in place for more than illuminating the rear light only" since I simply do not believe that anyone at Suzuki thinks it is important to light the brake lights when starting. Starting is normally done when in a parking stall, in your driveway, or on the side of the road -- not in traffic when someone would be following you.

Clearly, the reason for the interlock is so that one has his or her hand on the brake when starting, lest the bike jump forward given our clutchless machines.

lycheed said:
... I suggest that if your brake light doesn’t illuminate until you are applying tangible brake force, or that you can push your AN650 with the rear brake gripped tightly enough to allow the engine to be started, you should take it back to you dealer without delay and get them to have a look at it....
My brake lights come on with very little pressure on the grips, as it should be.

And I like the interlock setting just fine the way it is.
 

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Brian wrote
Before I did my "Kill Switch Experiment" I shut down my engine several times to test the coasting ability (not much) of the 650. I restarted by slightly squeezing the brake lever while holding the starter button down.
Did you engage the brake leaver because you had to ?
If you are under power and kill the engine, you should be able to restart without the need of the brake
so long as your pistons are still moving .At least that's the way it works on the 400.
 

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I need to chip in here.

First Brian is correct - if you are proceeding and hit the kill switch you CAN achieve a restart by pulling on the brake lever 'a little' which just so happens initates the brake light circuit AND closes the start logic circuit - AND then closing the kill switch (if the engine has not stopped) OR thumbing the starter (if the engine has stopped). You do not need the brake lever hard home.

The logic of the need for this system is eloquently and correctly explained by Lycheed. The implementation by Suzuki is adequate but as described above not so rigorous in practice as you one would think.

swstiles - I doubt if it makes too much of a difference in reality engine on or off - you are only connected for a minute or so, not long enough to damage the battery on the scoot.
 
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