[Jeff_MdR]

Over the last year, I have noticed that for a few days after I ride my 400 at sustained highway speeds (65-70mph indicated, 30+ minutes), I develop the ‘slipping clutch/judder’ effect at low speeds. This tends to disappear after a few days of mixed around-town riding using the ‘throttle blip’ technique. All is well until the next time I do a similar sustained high-speed ride, and then the pattern repeats.

I’m guessing that in riding at steady high speed, heat is building up and glazing the clutch bell, maybe because of some slipping, maybe for some other reason. The bike seems to perform just fine, and there is no obvious hint of a problem (at least to me).

Any ideas?

 

[mikeyMarine]

when was the last time you cleaned the dust out of the variator area?

 

[Desert Rat]

when was the last time you cleaned the dust out of the variator area?

+1 :thumbup:

 

[Jeff_MdR]

Overdue. If the dealership didn't clean it as asked at my last service, WAY overdue.

 

[Mike337]

That's probably all the dealer did was blow them out, then charged you for a "cvt cleaning".

 

[Daboo]

Overdue. If the dealership didn't clean it as asked at my last service, WAY overdue.

I don't trust dealerships. They kept telling my friend who has a 2007 400 that all was well. They did all his work till we looked at it together one afternoon. We found every bolt over tightened to the point we thought they would break. The CVT cooling filter was so packed with grime that I doubt any air could get through it. And the clutch...well, they test rode it and told him all was fine. Here's a picture of it... BTW, the inside of the clutch bell was just as bad and had to be replaced.

[attachment=0:3hp4853z]P1040119.JPG[/attachment:3hp4853z]
How many miles do you have on the bike?

The clutch shouldn't overheat while cruising at all. If it is working right, it should be cooler than if you're doing stop and go riding in town. Once up to engagement rpms, it shouldn't be slipping at all...which means, it isn't generating heat. So I'd look at that foam air filter over the CVT cooling intake and see if the dealership is treating you better than they were my friend.

Chris

 

[Elliott Larron]

:lol: that's how mines looked when i used to have the Stock Clutch, it's something you won't even Notice that you are running on Metal to Metal Contact, felt Normal. like nothing was wrong.

Elliott,

 

[Jeff_MdR]

I've got about 10.5K miles on the bike.

I guess it's time to man-up, study the DIY videos, and start wrenching.

 

[Daboo]

The hardest part for me, Jeff, was to pick up the tools. I'm not a mechanic, but I am cheap. I wanted to take care of the maintenance on my schedule, not the dealership's schedule and I didn't want to lose the bike for a week for something that should take a couple hours.

The first time I got the CVT cover off, I was amazed at how simple, yet effective, the 400's CVT design is. Once you've done it once, you'll probably never take it to the dealership again.

Chris

 

[Jeff_MdR]

Thanks, Chris. I consider myself pretty handy, and I have an innate curiosity about how things work, but I'm untrained and therefore lack confidence (although I have done oil changes, bulb replacement, windshield change-out). Believe it or not, it's the tupperware removal that worries me the most But this looks like an especially easy job, so its time to just do it. Plus, there are the psychic rewards of accomplishing a task and feeling self-sufficient.

I have a constant debate with myself if I'm cheap or not. I don't mind spending money, I mind over-spending. If my dealer (who I do tend to trust), would clean the cvt for fifty bucks or so, I'd probably have him do it. But not at $100+, even though I can afford it. I describe myself as value-conscious.

 

[Daboo]

While there are some who have removed tupperware for this, it isn't necessary.

I have pictures somewhere, but start with lifting up about a foot of the left mat for the pillion's foot rest. You'll find two Phillips screws to remove, one push-pin, and two 10mm bolts. The tupperware will then pull away from the frame. I put a rag over the plastic tab sticking out and then stick it beneath the frame portion where it was. That will give you enough room to get to everything.

The outer plastic CVT cover has five 8mm bolts you'll need to remove. One in front. One in the rear. And three that hold the black CVT air intake cover on.

Under this is the aluminum inner CVT cover. I think there are 12 8mm bolts to remove. The bolts are different lengths. I lay mine out in order on a paper towel. You'll see other ways people have kept them in order so they get the right bolt in the right hole. Use something for an anti-seize compound. The cover has a tight fitting bearing at the clutch end. You'll find in the tutorials the right size bolt to buy. Get them before you start, or use two bolts from the muffler to remove it. The bolts act like jackscrews in the holes of the cover to separate the two sides of the cover. You won't get the cover off without them generally.

If you remove the variator, just pay attention to the parts about how to torque the variator nut down. If you don't, you'll pinch the belt and it'll all come apart down the road, costing you lots of $$$ to fix. It's not hard, but you just need to do that portion right.

If you can change the windshield, this is a piece of cake.

Chris

 

[Jeff_MdR]

I was all ready to jump in until I read 'anti-seize,' 'tight fitting bearing,' 'bolt to buy' and 'jackscrews'! :lol:

 

[Desert Rat]

Check this out it should help. As Chris said it's not as bad as it sounds.
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=59764&p=552739&hilit=cvt+cover#p552739

 

[mikeyMarine]

really is pretty simple once you ve done it once , not even necessary to remove tupperware, but may I recommend a shop vac instead of a forced air gun to clean initially , I put mine on a center stand and cranked it, held the shop vac hose next to clutch and increased revs, same with variator, no dust all over cat :evil: , didn't even have to take a shower for another week :cheers:

ps if you think it is hard /complicated to take that thing apart without jackscrews, try doing it without them :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TwoWheelTim]

And once you get the aluminum CVT cover off, smear a film of Bel-Ray grease (or any grease) on the bearing outer surface, and she will slide off easily the next time. Works for me.

Tighten the bolts down gently and you are done.

 

[BirdmanA1A]

When I was putting my bike into the moving van, smoke actually came out from the belt area for a second or two tryig to get it up the ramp with virtually no run-up room. Nothing feels wrong, looking at the picture, I have an overwhelming feeling this undesirable moment will come back to haunt me later.
I wonder if I shouldnt just buy another belt. This happened at 2000 miles. 2140 on it right now. 2000 miles of 45-55 mph riding in Florida, in Kentucky, all low speed stop-n-go

 

[mikeyMarine]

that's a pretty low mileage belt, I would get it home and open the cvt and clean out all the gunk and look around maybe mic the belt if I got suspicious of any spots, but like spinning out on a tire, I don't think you will find damage isolated to one spot, and those belts are tougher than trying to get an old girlfriend to pay for a new farkle on a bike

 

[Mike337]

On a snowmobile CVT you would've "V-ed" the belt, giving you a thunk, thunk, thunk sound.

 

[happytech]

It happened to mine too . . .

Over the last year, I have noticed that for a few days after I ride my 400 at sustained highway speeds (65-70mph indicated, 30+ minutes), I develop the ‘slipping clutch/judder’ effect at low speeds. This tends to disappear after a few days of mixed around-town riding using the ‘throttle blip’ technique. All is well until the next time I do a similar sustained high-speed ride, and then the pattern repeats.

I’m guessing that in riding at steady high speed, heat is building up and glazing the clutch bell, maybe because of some slipping, maybe for some other reason. The bike seems to perform just fine, and there is no obvious hint of a problem (at least to me).

Any ideas?

I had this same problem several summers ago. When I would come off the highway and cruise in town, say, looking for my hotel, it would judder so bad I thought it was going to blow up. After everything cooled down, it was better. I also put the OEM clutch bell back on after that trip - I had been running another brand, you know, the one that starts with an M and is Italian (no, I can't remember how to spell it).

 

[Elliott Larron]

I had this same problem several summers ago. When I would come off the highway and cruise in town, say, looking for my hotel, it would judder so bad I thought it was going to blow up. After everything cooled down, it was better. I also put the OEM clutch bell back on after that trip - I had been running another brand, you know, the one that starts with an M and is Italian (no, I can't remember how to spell it).

malossi Clutch Bell, the One i gave you. it's built the same way as the Stock bell just made of other metals..

why i change the malossi Bell, is that it was the same Design as the Stock Bell.

So ordered the Polini Speed Bell becuze it was Lighter and had Big Giant Cooling Ports, and Finned Design..