Suzuki Burgman USA Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I replaced the rear tire on my 2007 Burgman 650 and installed new wheel bearings (SKF as listed on this forum and LeDude's). Got it back together last night and did a short ride around the block. Everything seems OK.

Today, I rode to work - about 5 miles. No problems. However, when I was leaving and walking out to the bike, I noticed a shiny streak around the face of the rear rotor. On closer inspection, the body of the caliper is touching the rotor on the front lower corner. Metal to metal. CRAP! At least it was not enough to damage the rotor - only cosmetic. I did have time to take off the caliper, and the sliding pins are working fine. I compressed the pistons, but to get the assembly on, they need to be compressed fully. Then, the caliper body is touching the rotor.

I had to leave the bike at work (indoors in a corner of the shop), not wanting to damage the rotor. I have two possibilities I am going to look at tomorrow (with my tools).

1) Perhaps the parking brake is not adjusted properly. When I removed the wheel, I simply backed off the 3mm hex bolt about 2 turns, and then gave it 2 turns when I re-installed it. Perhaps it is pushing the pads out.

2) WORSE CASE - AND THIS IS WHERE I NEED SOMEONE TO PLEASE GIVE ME A MEASUREMENT - When I re-assembled the rear hub assembly (where the cush drives and spline (?) gears fit inside the final drive case on the LH side, there is a recessed gap between the two sections. It is slightly less than 1/4 inch on mine. I thought it fit in tighter, but that's as far in as it would go. I was very careful to take photos and reinsert the spacers in the right places and direction. Perhaps I didn't get the bearings in properly, and this is throwing the whole wheel assembly off to the RH side by 1/8 inch or so. BUT, I would think the 2 axle spacers between the hub and rotor on the RH side would not fit then. ????? BTW - The pads still had plenty of the wear indicator grooves left on them.

PLEASE - Could someone measure a "healthy" 650 and tell me the gap between the outer (stationary) final drive gear cover and the inner (rotating) piece that fits inside of it? The inner hub has a recessed part that fits inside the outer piece the entire circumference, but there is still a small gap. Please be as precise as possible. THANK YOU!!

Other ideas would be appreciated.

.
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Sorry can't help you with the measurement, but last time I had the rear wheel off my KLR, both brake pads slid to one side and the backside of the one pad scuffed up my rotor quite a bit. Also did a number on the caliber.


Check to see if your pads are sandwiching your rotor properly Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Sorry can't help you with the measurement, but last time I had the rear wheel off my KLR, both brake pads slid to one side and the backside of the one pad scuffed up my rotor quite a bit. Also did a number on the caliber.


Check to see if your pads are sandwiching your rotor properly Good luck
Thanks. Yes, the pads are situated correctly as far as one on each side of the rotor. They also appeared to be in place in their respective clips.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
163 Posts
Just a quick guess.....your gap is fine, and it might be the parking brake tension is off from replacing the back tire causing your calipers to be too tight against the rotor. I did the same thing. I am sorry, but I cannot remember what I did to correct it. I just know that I forgot to loosen something on the cable before I removed the parking brake component.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Just a quick guess.....your gap is fine, and it might be the parking brake tension is off from replacing the back tire causing your calipers to be too tight against the rotor. I did the same thing. I am sorry, but I cannot remember what I did to correct it. I just know that I forgot to loosen something on the cable before I removed the parking brake component.
I'm really hoping that is the problem, since I REALLY don't want to take the back wheel off and start over from scratch trying to track down an "internal" problem.

.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,257 Posts
Parking brake is easy to adjust. Pull the lever up until you hear it click one time. Loosen the locking nut on the end of the parking brake adjuster. Put an allen wrench into the end of the stud the nut screws on to. Turn the stud in until you just feel it bottom out. Hold the stud in place with the allen wrench while you tighten the lock nut back down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
PLEASE - Could someone measure a "healthy" 650 and tell me the gap between the outer (stationary) final drive gear cover and the inner (rotating) piece that fits inside of it?
I don't know if the 2013 (mine) is the same but, I measure exactly .197" or 5mm. (Stacked feeler gauges)

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I don't know if the 2013 (mine) is the same but, I measure exactly .197" or 5mm. (Stacked feeler gauges)

Ed
What? Only to the 1/1,000 of an inch? I asked for a precise measurement. :p

JUST KIDDING!

Thank you. I will check that when I get to work. I think that is about where it is at now. For some reason, I thought they were supposed to be almost touching. This is good, though, since everything inside with the bearings may be OK.


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Well, not good news. I took my tools to work today (off the clock) and tried adjusting the parking brake. No luck - still scraping. I looked closely at it, and the caliper body is fixed in place when it is bolted in. The main body (not the sliding section) is what is touching the rotor. The only thing it can be is the rotor is positioned too far outbound by 1/8 or 1/4 inch. That means it has to be internal.

I called the shop and the service mgr told me the spacers can be tricky. It looks like they are installed correctly, but often they're not. Not wanting to take another day off work (no pay$$), I succumbed and had it towed to the dealer.

At least there is one bit of good news - The roadside assistance I have never used covers this so the towing was free. They sent a flatbed with a bike carrier and the guy took his time and strapped it in very securely.

I'm figuring I will have 2 or 3 hours shop time to pay, but as Kenny Rogers once said, you have to know when to fold 'em. I'm not a pro mechanic.


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Fixed

I got a call that my bike is done. There was a spacer in the hub that was not fully seated. Hence, everything east of there (including the rotor) was pushed out slightly.

Cost $122.00 was not as bad as I was expecting.

.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,516 Posts
I got a call that my bike is done...
Cost $122.00 was not as bad as I was expecting.
...and now for a few measures of Dave 'Baby' Cortez
HAPPY ORGAN (IST) :cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well, I was reminded today of why I almost always do the work myself.

When I picked the bike up from Morgantown Powersport (West Virginia), the service manager told me I had the axle spacers in backwards. I had installed the flared end out facing the swingarm instead of inward, covering the dust seal. Hmmm... I had taken dozens of photos as I disassembled the bike so I could get it right. Guess what? The flared end was facing out when I disassembled it. Guess who the last people were to have the axle off? Morgantown Powersport changed my rear tire last year and it hasn't been touched since.

Today, I decided to wash the bike since it sat out in the rain and pollen at the dealer. As I was cleaning around the rear axle, I noticed they had neglected to re-attach the retainer that holds the rear brake line (rubber) away from the rotor. It was swaying in the wind, about 1/8 inch away from the edge of the rotor while stationary.

I have to wonder what could have happened if the brake line had continued to rub the rotor.

So, visit #1 they reassembled the axle spacers backwards and visit #2 they forgot to secure the rear brake line. I thought I was paying $75/hour for professional service.

I really miss Leeson's Motors in Bridgeport WV. They were great!

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
The collars on my '07 look like this, both collars have the same surface, and the diameter is the same, less the flange of course.

The length they make up is the same whether it's the cylindrical part of the collar with the flange or the all-cylindrical one inserted in the dust seal.

The shop must have done something besides flipping the collar.


LeDude's picture: http://burgmanusa.com/forums/15-burgman-650/54207-rear-wheel-spacer-question.html#post536162


On the K3 and K4 models with 4-bolt brake rotors, the long spacer is the same diameter as the flange:

http://burgmanusa.com/forums/15-burgman-650/18291-rear-wheel-spacer-order.html#post179775


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
They must have done something besides flipping the collar.
Yes, I did not have the bearing by the drive gear side fully seated.

However, the service mgr also told me one of the bolts broke off the plate for the cush drive, but there were 5 other bolts and so he didn't bother to fix it. :eek: I came home and looked at my photos and there is a 6-point, start-shaped hub that covers the 3 cush drive inserts and attach to the hub at the other 3 points (transferring power from the gear to the hub through the rubber cush drives). Each point of attachment is covered by a tab with 2 bolts. Looking at the photo I took (since viewing them requires removing the wheel/axle) they look like about 12mm bolts. Why would they need to remove one of these to seat the bearing? Why would they just stick it back in with a broken bolt?

I try to be an understanding person, but this is just past my line in the sand. I'm taking my "before" photos over and talking to them this morning.

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
The the rear hub driven joint is in the way of the bearing outer ring.

The bolts are 6mm thread with 10mm heads, just checked my spare wheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
UPDATE - I stopped and had a polite discussion with the service manager about my concerns. After showing him my "before" photo that showed their shop had installed the spacers in the wrong order last summer, and telling him about the brake line left unsecured and close to touching the rear rotor last week, he was visibly upset with the level of service I had received. To add credibility to my case, I pointed out the used Burgman 650 in the showroom they had obviously put a new rear tire on - and the spacers were backwards on it! He even offered to refund the fees, but I told him I was not there for a refund. I was looking for a service department I could trust and who was worthy of charging me a whole day's wages for each hour of their time. I think he got the message. We'll see if I go back in the future.


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
The flared side towards the swing arm is what LeDude shows in his picture.

The idea must be to have a larger surface where the spacer clamps the swing arm.
On the K3 and K4's the cylindrical spacer have the same diameter as the flange.

Suzuki decided to save a little material by making the cylindrical spacer smaller in diameter and putting it towards the bearing, while keeping the flanged spacer to spread out the load on the swing arm surface.

So the service manager was wrong, when he said you had the spacers installed wrong.

I can PM you a cross section drawing from the sevice manual, if you don't have one. It's in section 9-52
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Here are some photos that I hope help explain my logic (or lack thereof) LOL





For re-assembly reference, I put everything back on the axle in the order and direction it was just a few minutes earlier when I removed them. You can clearly see where the straight spacer had been inserted into the dust/oil seal, and that the big flange was indeed pressed against the swingarm (see the mark it left). This goes against the diagrams in my service manual (2002 edition) and the diagram the service manager had. This we both agreed on.




In this diagram (cut from page 9-52 of the 2002 edition service manual) the arrow points to the flared section and shows the straight end inserted into the seal and the flange/lip in the middle contacting the outer (straight) spacer. This is how the shop installed it last week. Good. NOTE: I understand the straight spacer was originally much thicker, like on this diagram. The straight spacer on my 2007 is much thinner/narrower, making it more logical to put the flared end contacting the swingarm.




This "explodogram" (again from the 2002 edition) also shows the flange away from the seal, contacting the straight spacer.

I agree with ErikDK that it would appear to make more sense to have it way it was (incorrectly) installed with the flared end against the swingarm to spread out the load and stabilize it. That's also the way LeDude has his installed in the photos earlier. But..... this is what the manual ways.

I guess time will tell. Stay tuned in a few years for an update.

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
Edit 2: assuming the pictures are of your own scooter, the shop inserted the thin part of the flanged spacer, which has clearly never been in contact with the dust seal lip before, into the dust seal, and put the cylindrical spacer, which was clearly always in contact with the dust seal lip, towards the swing arm.
It has always been correctly installed, up until the tech got confused by the manual, which is outdated in this department


Edit 1:Crossposting/ lack of comprehension, but I'm to lazy to start all over.

It looks stupid with the flange in the middle, therefore it's clear that it should be against the swing arm.

The flanged spacer is not worn by the dust seal, so at has never been installed inboard, regardless of what the manual shows.

They didn't bother making a new rear wheel illustration. The brake rotor is attached by 4 bolts in the drawing, but k5 forwards have 5 bolts.


You are overlooking the fact that the new type cylindrical spacer has the diameter to fit the dust seal.
The only good the flanged part of the other spacer can do is to spread out the load on the swing arm surface.

The flange serves no purpose i mid air.

In the old setup, the flange bridged the difference in diameter between the thin part in the dust seal and the large diameter old type cylindrical spacer.

The difference in contact area is something like 1:2.

Also look at the contact area of the swing arm. They made it that large on purpose.

I believe so firmly in this, that I'm going to flip my flanged spacer, which is currently mounted with the flange in mid air, because it's easier to thread the axle through that way.

The LeDude way is the correct way
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top