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Discussion Starter #1
Well, looks like the mystery maker scooter is going back to the guy who sold it to me... he still can't seem to come up with the paperwork necessary to legally register it. At least he has agreed to refund my money (WHEW! :roll: )
So this weekend I took the other half in to our local Suzuki dealer to show her the Burgman. Alas they didn't have any out in the showroom. But I did take a sit on the '05 Majesty they had out front. Not bad, but my heart belongs to the 650 Burg.

My dilemma though is this:
How do I convince the other half that we really should spring for the 650 not the 400? I've done my best to "illuminate" the performance differences, though I must admit I am enough of a newbie to not fully understand some of those (and the other half has been riding since the dark ages :wink: ) I have also tried to point out some of the fantastic info I have picked up here on the forum. I don't think she's totally opposed to the 650 but she is concerned about the weight of the bike (she has a bad back) and isn't convinced that we really need the extra power. I look at it this way: I'm going to be the primary rider as I will be using the Burg for my daily commute which is 45 miles of pain in the arse So Cal freeway traffic. I want to have no doubts about my bike having the power I might need on occasion to get myself out of situations. And I DEFINITELY don't want to be stuck in the slow lane simply because my bike can't comfortably handle the other lanes (I don't have any intention of playing speed racer but I would like to go faster than the semi-trucks thank you). And let's not forget that I am... shall we say, more than just big boned. This baby is gonna be carrying a significant amount of weight. And well, ok, so there is also the fact that when I buy something I have this insane obsessive need to have the absolute best! :p

So after that painfully long-winded post my question is this:
What would YOU say if you were trying to sell YOUR other half on the 650 vs. the 400 Burgman?
 

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Just be honest & tell her it's what you want. If for some reason she cannot be swayed, although I have never ridden a 400, I can assure you that it is fully capable of doing everything you described as necessary.

I too, have that insane need to get only the best, and can honestly tell you that if the 400 had fit my frame & physical needs, I would have been all over it in a heartbeat. I really think that you are nicely situated in a definite win-win scenario here. Either you win by getting the 400 (a big win) or you win really big by getting the 650.

You can still win really big by considering an 04 or 03 650, which can be had for about the same or slightly less money than a new 400. It may take some time & some serious shopping, but it is definitley do-able.

I hope you find an answer that makes you happy, and I don't think "settling" for the 400 is the worst thing that could happen.
 

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650 used

Buy the 650 used. it will be close in cost to the 400 and then you get what you want. win win. either way you go you will like it. I understand the wanting it new thing, that was the way I bought my first street legal bike against a sea of friends and family telling me to go used and save some $$$. My burgman on the way is used and should complete the sale this weekend.

I never rode a 400, but if you think about it, guys used to drive cross country on 250cc bikes years ago, so I bet it would be fine. The transmition works at getting the best power to the rear wheel for you.

joe
 

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Someone once said, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission."
Get what your heart tells you.
 

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After reviewing all you say - you need the 650!
 

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You know, it really wouldn't cost that much to pry off the "650" badges and put on the stickers off of the 400.

:):):)
 

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Taz

Nice used one not too far away
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-A ... enameZWDVW

the other half has been riding since the dark ages Wink
The Motorcycle Safety Foundation was not formed until a few years after the end of the dark ages...maybe it's time for a refresher course or a BRC if you have not had one yet...end of safety lecture :wink:

she is concerned about the weight of the bike
They are only heavy if you dump it :lol:

using the Burg for my daily commute which is 45 miles of pain in the arse So Cal freeway traffic
If this is your plan, then you my friend are the newest member of the asylum. Welcome :twisted: all kidding aside, I try to avoid "rush" hour traffic in Peoria and that's like horse and buggies compared to you dudes. I would not consider that plan to be clever until you've racked up some serious experience. Remember, a Burger King does not come with a REPLAY button as standard equipment

Be a man, step up to the plate and buy the freakin thing. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good luck in you quest

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Wyldman-
I don't mean to be down on the 400. If there was no 650 I have no doubt that I would be totally psyched to own one. But... well... :lol:

malahy1501-
never fear... we are both going to take the MSF course. Even though Carol rode for years upon years it has been sometime since she's been on anything with only two wheels and doesn't even have a current motorcycle license. So, we are both gonna start with the basic (beginner) course and then after we have some decent miles under our belts go back and take the advanced course.
And yeah, it's dumping it that she's woried about the weight on. Of course, she thought the 400 felt real heavy too :p But, to be fair, she rode 250's for the most part in the past so between that and the fact that she's a decade and a half older than she was the last time she rode... I think ANYTHING would feel too heavy to her until she got used to it again.

As for riding in California traffic... hell, I think it's nuts to drive a CAR in it! But since I do that DESPITE how I feel about it... well I guess it's just one more step into the realm of insanity to ride a bike in our traffic :twisted:

When all is said and done I think I can talk her into the 650. Eventually we will end up buying a second scooter so we can go on weekend trips together without riding two-up which I'm FAR from feeling comfortable with yet. And I guess I kinda figure I can point out to her that if I get the 650 for myself first and let her ride it on weekends she may well come to be quite comfortable with it. And if she DOESN'T well then she won't ever have to have the feeling of having made the wrong choice by getting herself the 400.

Maybe I'm an idiot but I have no fear of the 650 being too big. I may not have a lot of "time in the saddle" but I've fooled around "enough" with much heavier bikes and with bikes that weigh about the same but that have a MUCH higher center of gravity that I don't have the feeling of the 650 Burgman being "too much" bike for me to handle. Do I have to be careful... you bet your sweet arse. But I don't feel I have to be "timid"
 

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Tasmania,
The big add boys are always telling us "bigger is better" and it's true if your the manufacturer, not always true if your the consumer.
But you sound like your mind is made up so I will not try to stop you from wasting your money, after all, it is yours to throw away as you wish. 8)
In fact 45 miles a day @ 75 or 85 why not conceder a GoldWing. :lol:
Granted I may not be the right person to speak I only have 24000 miles on my one year old 400.
I am a light weight at only 248 lbs and I seldom exceed the 75 mph speed limit down here by more then 10 mph. :?
Fact is the 650 is a great bike, just don't tell me the 400 can't do it. :)
 

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if the "problem" has to do with lifting the heavier bike you should do a search of the forum for "lifting bike" or "lifting motorcycles". There is a url for a series of film clips showing a slight, elderly lady picking up a pretty big bike. She shows the proper technique.

If the concern is over dropping the heavier bike, well you can drop any bike if you mess up. :lol:

Ken

:eek:gre:
 

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Ken OBSC said:
if the "problem" has to do with lifting the heavier bike you should do a search of the forum for "lifting bike" or "lifting motorcycles". There is a url for a series of film clips showing a slight, elderly lady picking up a pretty big bike. She shows the proper technique.

If the concern is over dropping the heavier bike, well you can drop any bike if you mess up. :lol:

Ken

:eek:gre:
Wow, thanx! I did the search and found this:

http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn.us/pages/tips_pages/tips_lift.html

I would've never considered the method of facing away. I will be taking the MSF course so I guess I would've learned that anyways... but thanx! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Ken. I think this will help a lot.

And no it's not about dropping the bike. It's about picking up the bike if she does. :lol:

She also worries about getting the bike on and off the center stand. And she has trouble balancing the bike as she takes it off the stand (hence her assumption that sooner or later she will drop the bike even if only in our driveway :wink: ) I have already tried to explain some of what I have read in other threads regarding getting on and off the center stand but I think until I can get her out there actually PRACTICING those techniques it won't really mean much to her. I'm hoping to get her practicing on the mystery maker scoot which is only a 250 (although I'd be willing to bet it weighs about as much as the 400 Burgman) I had trouble af first with the center stand but after a few tries I just kinda stumbled on the right combination to get it there. I think if she treis some of what people have suggested on the forum she would eventually have no trouble either. Same with picking up the bike if she did manage to drop it.

I guess end the end I feel she tends to underestimate what she is capable of given the right training and techniques. I understand this really, she does have back problems and doesn't want to end up in agony over a scooter. But she tends to be reluctant to try. I say I understand because I was seriously hurt several years ago when I got crushed between a 64 T-bird and a 40 ton semi truck (I was working the gate as a security guard at a trucking company) I almost lost my left leg and it took a LONG time to get back to where I am now. Not 100% but still pretty good. For a long time I was reluctant to push the boundaries of what I could physically do. But one day I just got tired of everyone, including me, assuming that I just couldn't or shouldn't do something. I'm willing to accept certain compromises (like getting an automatic scooter rather than one of the cruisers that I adore. While I have no doubt that I would be able to handle the shifting with my left leg I also know that having to shift on a regular basis with it would lead to more pain than I necessarily want to deal with all the time) but I'm not willing to sit around feeling sorry for myself because some jerk on a cell phone wasn't paying attention and hit the gas instead of the brake. If I had taken that attitude for any length of time the doctor would have been right when he said my chances of walking were slim at best.

Well, this got WAAAAYYY too long, again. so I will shut my trap now. In the end I think it will all work out.
 

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Tasmania wrote (snipped)
I guess end the end I feel she tends to underestimate what she is capable of given the right training and techniques
.
Mite I suggest getting her the training first, and let her decide.
I am sure you can convince her to see your point.
I am not sure you can ever convince her to be happy. :)
 

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As far as the centerstand thing is concerned - I'd suggest that you stand on the right side, in position to take control if need be. She can then practice with no fear.

If she is unable to get it up on the centerstand by herself, after trying "manfully" then maybe the centerstand isn't for her... However, I think that the "you can't fail" type of training, that we use to help kids learn to ride a bike, works. I think that given the evidence that you will guarantee that as she struggles and throws herself into it, the bike is not going to fall over and either pin her or smash up the right side, she will hit on the magic and the bike will levitate for her. A few more practices as you provide less and less "support" and she will never forget.

There are few joys to equal that felt as you watch your little girl pedal away from you :)
 

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Even though the 400 should work fine for you, if you are not happy without the biggest/baddest scooter then you will lose money when you trade it in for a 650. Also, if I'm thinking correctly and guessing right you are riding in on multi-lane freeway (unless going over 'saddleback' mountain - in which case passing isn't much of an option anyways unless they've widened it). You will find at 70MPH the 650 will ride in more of a 'sweet spot' than the 400 (6-7K RPM at actual 70MPH - not indicated).
Another point is you will have radial tires (nice for all the nails, etc. in the high desert) and a larger tire. Obviously you've decided so there's your reasons. I ride my 400 to work and back everyday and almost all of it is 70ish (actual) MPH. We won't discuss the 80ish parts ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Selias said:
Also, if I'm thinking correctly and guessing right you are riding in on multi-lane freeway
Yes. Most of my commute is at least four lanes each way and none of it is less than two lanes each way. Well except for the half mile or so right around home. Most of the time traffic runs about 60 mpf in the right-most lane and anywhere between 70 mph and ***CRINGE** 85 + mph in the left-most lane. Now and then someone blows by that HAS to be doing aroung 100 mph. I don't have ANY intention of riding 85+ but I'd like to think that in time, with practice in low traffic times I could get comfortable up around 70 mph. When I talk about heavy traffic I don't generally mean stop and go. Though there are a few places on my daily ride where it grinds down to that (like the I-91 interchange :evil: ) Mostly the traffic keeps moving fast there just are a heck of a lot of cars and motocycles around. I tend to work my way through the"herds" until I find a break between two clusters of cars and do my best to stay in that magical little pocket. Doesn't always work but even in my truck I hate the feeling of being hemmed in and on the bike I feel even stronger about that... I want my space dang it. :lol:
 

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Women! Sheesh!

Women can be so prissy about things sometimes! :lol: (I am an expert being a girl and all!)

There are lots of us fairer sex here that own 650's. I owned a smaller scoot before upgrading to the Burgman in less than a year.

If I was in your situation I would not consider the 400 especially if you will be doing 2 up riding. The 650 is designed to handle the extra weight. Besides, if you don't get what you want you won't be happy...and YOU will be the primary rider.

It was good advice to get a used one. They are reliable and will cost you the same or LESS than a new 400...except they don't come in the Racy Red :?

Good luck with whatever your choice will be. And enjoy the Basic Rider Course. It was a blast and very informative.
 

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For a 45 mi commute you may need a 650,but a used one.The 400 gives me a rush and I'm at 250#.Your warranty says you need a 600 mi check w/valve adj.,If I was buying new I'd have my dealer "toss this in".Otherwise your lookin at several hundred bucks or no warranty.After stripping my 400 yesterday I'd buy a used one priced right.These machines are made to live a long life.
 
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