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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all. I'm gonna throw this out there to the more experienced members here.
Just going through the '08 Burg 400 I picked up last week and fixing some issues. The faces of the varistor plates look like the rings of Saturn so I am posting these photos to get the collective's view of them (as in to re-use or replace). As you can see, I laid a file on it as a straight edge to give you some idea of the gaps that are present with the grooving. The drive on the clutch has similar wear patterns as well.
Also, I read on another thread that the 5 shoe clutch uses a different bell than the old 3 show clutch. I have a 5 shoe clutch in my bike but I have ordered a HIT clutch for it and was wondering if the bell will fit up to it ok?

Photos.











 

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The belt you removed was it OEM? I think a bad quality after market belt will cause such a damage like this.
Another thing to mention is the rollers, did you find any of them flipped?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
The belt you removed was it OEM? I think a bad quality after market belt will cause such a damage like this.
Another thing to mention is the rollers, did you find any of them flipped?
Thanks Hussein. Ok, firstly, as I am a new burgman owner, I have no idea what an OEM belt would look like. Can you please help by explaining what type of markings will be on so I can check?
As to the rollers, all of them had multi faceted sides of wear on them so they have definitely been moving around.
 

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How many miles on the scooter? That will give a hint to figure out if the belt is OEM. It's usually best to give the mileage of the scooter when asking questions pertaining to wear. I can't tell you if your bell will work or not but I'm sure someone will give you an answer soon.
 

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Grooves like this are normal wear for the pulleys with the kevlar reinforced belts that come standard with these types of transmissions. If your ride alot in a particular rpm/speed range then the area the belt rides on for the range will cause more rapid wear to the pulley faces in that area. So, if it's severely affecting your needed rpms for a given speed or the belt is riding too high on the pulley's due to this grove then it's time to change out the pulleys.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How many miles on the scooter? That will give a hint to figure out if the belt is OEM. It's usually best to give the mileage of the scooter when asking questions pertaining to wear. I can't tell you if your bell will work or not but I'm sure someone will give you an answer soon.
The bike has just under 25K miles on it.


Grooves like this are normal wear for the pulleys with the kevlar reinforced belts that come standard with these types of transmissions. If your ride alot in a particular rpm/speed range then the area the belt rides on for the range will cause more rapid wear to the pulley faces in that area. So, if it's severely affecting your needed rpms for a given speed or the belt is riding too high on the pulley's due to this grove then it's time to change out the pulleys.
Thanks for that answer, but as I have only just purchased this and only ridden it the once to get it back home, I don't yet know at what speed I will be riding at to need certain rpm's. :)
 

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I don't know if you have access to a GPS or similar app, but generally in top gear ratio, rpm / 100 = speed. So 7000 rpm = 70 mph.

Also, the speedo is quite often about 10% positive. So 80 mph indicated on the speedo = 72 mph actual speed = 7200 rpm engine speed

Obviously any bike can have variances, but I've read a few members who've confirmed this experience. So Try those to at least see if you're significantly off.

Also, top speed has been reported to be in the low 90s. Mine would do about 91-93 actual before it started bouncing off the rev limiter. But due to some groving, it only does 89 now. Not sure how helpful that is.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't know if you have access to a GPS or similar app, but generally in top gear ratio, rpm / 100 = speed. So 7000 rpm = 70 mph.

Also, the speedo is quite often about 10% positive. So 80 mph indicated on the speedo = 72 mph actual speed = 7200 rpm engine speed

Obviously any bike can have variances, but I've read a few members who've confirmed this experience. So Try those to at least see if you're significantly off.

Also, top speed has been reported to be in the low 90s. Mine would do about 91-93 actual before it started bouncing off the rev limiter. But due to some groving, it only does 89 now. Not sure how helpful that is.
Thanks Liamjs, that has made the earlier comment a lot clearer. I will use the current pulleys and once the bike is all back together from it's current overhaul I shall do some test runs with my GPS attached and see what the outcome is then. Thanks!

Daz.
 

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Dazby with just under 25,000 miles on it it's probably on it's second belt. You said you were fixing some issues, what kind of issues were you having with it? I have seen grooves work out of the pulleys before although I don't know if they were quite as deep as yours are. Did you notice anything odd in the way it road when you rode it home? I'm only asking so many questions because the more information we have the better answers you will get.
I do know(well I believe)when you get everything taken care of you'll be happy you bought your scooter. It's not often that I read where people end up not happy they bought their scooter. I will warn you scooters can be addictive. I started off with a 50cc scooter just for fun and now I have a garage full of scooters and they are my maine transportation.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dazby with just under 25,000 miles on it it's probably on it's second belt. You said you were fixing some issues, what kind of issues were you having with it? I have seen grooves work out of the pulleys before although I don't know if they were quite as deep as yours are. Did you notice anything odd in the way it road when you rode it home? I'm only asking so many questions because the more information we have the better answers you will get.
I do know(well I believe)when you get everything taken care of you'll be happy you bought your scooter. It's not often that I read where people end up not happy they bought their scooter. I will warn you scooters can be addictive. I started off with a 50cc scooter just for fun and now I have a garage full of scooters and they are my maine transportation.
Hey. So I measured the belt and it look like it's in spec as a new one so I'm thinking that when the new clutch was added the belt was changed as well. As to the issues, well when I rode it I got up to over 80MPH (wife was following in our SUV), but there was a very loud noise, some kind of knocking/rattle sound on acceleration that would go once I was "off throttle" and coasting.(not a piston or internal knocking- I know those sounds well from previous exploits with single cylinder bikes). Given the state of the rollers that may have been a contributing factor. The exhaust manifold has been repaired (not well- just with some kind of JB Weld crap) but doesn't appear to be leaking but could have been, but I ordered another online today. I did a valve inspection today and everything is well within spec, in fact almost perfect all-round. The spark plug is a great light tan color and all the wiring looks good with no issues or error codes appearing. The steering bearings were shot and I have those out now, just waiting on replacements to arrive and I will also replace the fork oil and seals while they are out of the scoot. I have also ordered a K&N air filter and will flush and replace the oil, final drive and radiator. Apart from that, I need to tidy up the bodywork a bit, replace a few push pins and bodywork clips and I should be back on the road in a few days.
 

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Hey. So I measured the belt and it look like it's in spec as a new one so I'm thinking that when the new clutch was added the belt was changed as well. As to the issues, well when I rode it I got up to over 80MPH (wife was following in our SUV), but there was a very loud noise, some kind of knocking/rattle sound on acceleration that would go once I was "off throttle" and coasting.(not a piston or internal knocking- I know those sounds well from previous exploits with single cylinder bikes). Given the state of the rollers that may have been a contributing factor. The exhaust manifold has been repaired (not well- just with some kind of JB Weld crap) but doesn't appear to be leaking but could have been, but I ordered another online today. I did a valve inspection today and everything is well within spec, in fact almost perfect all-round. The spark plug is a great light tan color and all the wiring looks good with no issues or error codes appearing. The steering bearings were shot and I have those out now, just waiting on replacements to arrive and I will also replace the fork oil and seals while they are out of the scoot. I have also ordered a K&N air filter and will flush and replace the oil, final drive and radiator. Apart from that, I need to tidy up the bodywork a bit, replace a few push pins and bodywork clips and I should be back on the road in a few days.
Listen closely to that knocking you hear as this freaked me out at first, I spent many a day panicking over it only to find out it was the rollers rattling. They make a noise you'd swear was piston slap LOL... At idle or taking off at low RPM's, the noise goes away with speed because centripetal force keeps the pushed out and quiet :)
 

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First off, for 2007+ model years, there is no difference between the clutch bell for 3 shoe and 5 shoe clutches. There is a difference between earlier Burgman 400's and later ones (the dividing line being 2007).

The wear on your variator looks like what I would expect if a generously proportioned individual spent a lot of time in city traffic, topping out around 40 - 45 mph. On my plates the outer wear ring is a little further out. That could also be a result of my using sliders. In fact it probably is. Your wear is pretty significant, about what i was seeing on mine at close to double the mileage.

What you will experience because of the wear on your pulley faces is less than optimal transmission operation but no so much that you, as a new rider, would probably notice much. On initial acceleration you probably see the engine revs to a certain point, I would expect around 4.5-4.8K at which point the scooter's speed will vary directly with engine rpm. With new plates (smooth slope) you take off rpm tends to range somewhat higher (on my scooter now, take of is between 5.8 and 6K rpm). On acceleration the rpm immediately jumps about 1K with throttle application. The general impression is that there is a much less direct connection between the throttle and speed during transitions. A swooshier feel, if you will. All that being said, it probably doesn't make a tremendous difference unless you are performance minded and spend a bit of time running through timing traps. I would monitor belt wear and condition closely. I did shred a belt recently which I partially attribute to worn pulley faces. After paying for a ride on a flat hauler and parts it ended up costing roughly $800. I do my own work (also partially responsible for the belt issue but this is discussed on another thread). As far as economy it does not affect it much. Probably puts a little more strain on the engine but these little thumpers are pretty tough and take a lot of abuse without complaint (as long as there's oil). If you do decide to replace the plates in the future, you really have to replace both sets (variator and driven) or you may have issues. I'll try and take some pictures of my driven plates tonight to give a reference point of what I found to be extreme wear.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
First off, for 2007+ model years, there is no difference between the clutch bell for 3 shoe and 5 shoe clutches. There is a difference between earlier Burgman 400's and later ones (the dividing line being 2007).

The wear on your variator looks like what I would expect if a generously proportioned individual spent a lot of time in city traffic, topping out around 40 - 45 mph. On my plates the outer wear ring is a little further out. That could also be a result of my using sliders. In fact it probably is. Your wear is pretty significant, about what i was seeing on mine at close to double the mileage.

What you will experience because of the wear on your pulley faces is less than optimal transmission operation but no so much that you, as a new rider, would probably notice much. On initial acceleration you probably see the engine revs to a certain point, I would expect around 4.5-4.8K at which point the scooter's speed will vary directly with engine rpm. With new plates (smooth slope) you take off rpm tends to range somewhat higher (on my scooter now, take of is between 5.8 and 6K rpm). On acceleration the rpm immediately jumps about 1K with throttle application. The general impression is that there is a much less direct connection between the throttle and speed during transitions. A swooshier feel, if you will. All that being said, it probably doesn't make a tremendous difference unless you are performance minded and spend a bit of time running through timing traps. I would monitor belt wear and condition closely. I did shred a belt recently which I partially attribute to worn pulley faces. After paying for a ride on a flat hauler and parts it ended up costing roughly $800. I do my own work (also partially responsible for the belt issue but this is discussed on another thread). As far as economy it does not affect it much. Probably puts a little more strain on the engine but these little thumpers are pretty tough and take a lot of abuse without complaint (as long as there's oil). If you do decide to replace the plates in the future, you really have to replace both sets (variator and driven) or you may have issues. I'll try and take some pictures of my driven plates tonight to give a reference point of what I found to be extreme wear.
Huge thank you Chatman128, that well written explanation is super helpful to a newbie scooter rider like me. It's always hard when you are new to something to try and explain what you need info wise without knowing all the tech terms but you nailed it perfectly!

Cheers!

Daz.
 

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Daz, Chatman is correct in everything he is saying. I normally replace any drive pulleys that are as worn as that in your pictures. Otherwise, it will make the transmission noisey and as Chatman says, it will wear out the belt much more quickly. You'll hear the worn rollers alot more also. But it's all easy stuff to sort out. Come back if you need detailed explainations.
 

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Huge thank you Chatman128, that well written explanation is super helpful to a newbie scooter rider like me. It's always hard when you are new to something to try and explain what you need info wise without knowing all the tech terms but you nailed it perfectly!

Cheers!

Daz.
See Daz I told you someone would give you the information you were looking for. ;) There's a good group of people here that are always happy to offer their help when someone needs it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hey thanks all, you guys are great! Work is progressing slowly as parts arrive but so far I have all the motor back together, cleaned everything as I went so it looks super tidy "under the hood", installed the K&N air filter and started getting some of the bodywork tidied up and some of the missing clips back in place. I have a lead on some low mileage varistor pulleys so I am expecting good things when it hits the road again.

Daz.
 

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Hey thanks all, you guys are great! Work is progressing slowly as parts arrive but so far I have all the motor back together, cleaned everything as I went so it looks super tidy "under the hood", installed the K&N air filter and started getting some of the bodywork tidied up and some of the missing clips back in place. I have a lead on some low mileage varistor pulleys so I am expecting good things when it hits the road again.

Daz.
<Pedant>Twice now you've referred to the variator as a varistor (and, perhaps, the driven pulley as well). A varistor is a voltage variable resistor (electronic device) often used for surge suppression and soft start circuits in electronic devices. A variator, as used around here, is the front pulley with a fixed plate and a movable plate controlled by a set of weights. The rear sheave is called the driven pulley and also has a fixed and movable plate. In the case of the driven pulley, the spacing is controlled by the instantaneous torque trying to force the belt deeper into the pulley working against a spring trying to keep the plates pressed together. The assembly consisting of the variator, driven pulley, and belt make up the CVT portion of the transmission. Don't let spell check lead you astray</Pedant>
 

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Discussion Starter #18
<Pedant>Twice now you've referred to the variator as a varistor (and, perhaps, the driven pulley as well). A varistor is a voltage variable resistor (electronic device) often used for surge suppression and soft start circuits in electronic devices. A variator, as used around here, is the front pulley with a fixed plate and a movable plate controlled by a set of weights. The rear sheave is called the driven pulley and also has a fixed and movable plate. In the case of the driven pulley, the spacing is controlled by the instantaneous torque trying to force the belt deeper into the pulley working against a spring trying to keep the plates pressed together. The assembly consisting of the variator, driven pulley, and belt make up the CVT portion of the transmission. Don't let spell check lead you astray</Pedant>
Sorry but I have a form of dyslexia. So sorry to offend, I realize it can be annoying to some. I will try and take more time to check my spelling.

Cheers!

Daz.
 

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Not annoyed at all. Just didn't know if you realized the distinction. And for sure when you go out googling for information you would be surprised by what comes back. When you get to the parts fiche, the distinction between variator and driven pulleys can be important.

For my part, I have no explanations for my crappy spelling other than I'm a crappy speller.
 

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Daz one of the negative things about the printed word is you can't hear the "tone " of what is being said. Your "mistake" didn't offend anyone, I believe Chatman128 was just trying to offer help. That way if like he said you were doing a search you would be more likely to find what you were looking for.
I will admit there's the rare occasion of someone being a jerk or a grammar nazi, but most often people are truly trying to help. If someone replies in a way I think is criticism I try to not reply back until the next day. That way I have time to think about what they are saying and usually after thinking about it overnight I realize they were really trying to help and I was just not understanding their intention to help.
 
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