So I decided to take the cvt cover off of my 400 burg. Saw all the dust and blew it all out with compressed air. I did not take anything apart... Just blew it out real good. Put the cover back on and now every time I use it (cold)... Such a loud groaning sound coming from the clutch on take off... Also feels like a lot more vibration than usual at slow rpm taking off. What happened ? I have about 7k miles on it.
Groaning sound.... Clutch ??
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you cleaned it , it like a little dirt, give it a few hundred miles to get some dust built back up so things slither around and it will get back to normal , this happened to me on my 08 (the first one , ) just turn up your radio for a few miles , it will fix itself
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what's the difference between glazed and smooth and shiny like they're supposed to be ? I ve never seen glazed, pics ?
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This is a problem that absolutely ruined the Burgman for me. I have owned 5 Burgmans over the years and honestly believe it to be the best allrounder there is, unless you are unlucky enough to own one which suffers from this. All mine were fine until the last one which was a 2010 LA and I absolutely loved it that is until the the "judder" struck. I have a superb dealer with top notch mechanics but try what they may they could not cure it. Eventually I became so frustrated by it that I sold it. I will buy another but not until I can be assured that Suzuki have sorted this once and for all. Would you not agree that I would be a complete mug to spend £6,500 on a bike that may or may not operate as it should do. Suzuki have been prating about with this for 6 long years now and it,s about time they got a grip.
Geoff.
Geoff.
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Never have seen anyone having to replace a clutch at 7,000 miles. Mine made it to 32,000 miles before I replace it. What year of 400 do you have?
I developed this same issue on my 2012 after about 1500 miles. "deglazing" (holding brakes while gunning to 4000 rpm for 5 secs) would work for about 5 miles, and then the problem would be back. Blowing out the dust did about the same.
Finally at 7000 miles with one month left on the warranty the dealer agreed to replace the clutch, and since then it has been golden (though still less than 1000 miles on the new clutch, so time will tell).
The "old" clutch did look a bit glazed (blue).
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"Judder" is a term used to illustrate the non progressive take up of the drive. In a correctly engineered system the graphical illustration of the progression from "No drive" to "Fully engaged" would be an elongated "S" laid at some 45 degrees from the vertical. Judder effectively overlays a "Saw Tooth" pattern over this ideal curve. Put more simply, it's badly engineered or to put it yet another way, it's CRAP.
Geoff.
Geoff.
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so glazed clutch PADS are blue?
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It's an onomatopoeia, referring to a shaking, shuddering effect when starting up from a stop. If you've ever experienced it, the term is self explanatory.
To remove glaze, most use something like a emory cloth (180 grit or so) or similar. Since the clutch shoes are supposed to bed in, a.k.a form a moting surface with the bell that would appear to the eye like a shiny surface, I'm not sure it's ever advisable to remove 'glaze'. Glaze, if present, is actually a change in the physical structure of the mating surface, caused by heat, that would be characterized by, you guessed it, a shiny surface. But I think it is not all that common. Most people when they sand down their shoes just remove some life. I get a little of the groan you mention when I first start out with the scooter cold. After it warms up, it goes away. I have never identified it's specific source. Just always assumed it was the belt slipping slightly. Could be clutch/bell interaction, in either case I think a little belt dust may be the answer.
Torque spec on the clutch I believe is the same as the variator, 65 or 70 ft-lbs.
To remove glaze, most use something like a emory cloth (180 grit or so) or similar. Since the clutch shoes are supposed to bed in, a.k.a form a moting surface with the bell that would appear to the eye like a shiny surface, I'm not sure it's ever advisable to remove 'glaze'. Glaze, if present, is actually a change in the physical structure of the mating surface, caused by heat, that would be characterized by, you guessed it, a shiny surface. But I think it is not all that common. Most people when they sand down their shoes just remove some life. I get a little of the groan you mention when I first start out with the scooter cold. After it warms up, it goes away. I have never identified it's specific source. Just always assumed it was the belt slipping slightly. Could be clutch/bell interaction, in either case I think a little belt dust may be the answer.
Torque spec on the clutch I believe is the same as the variator, 65 or 70 ft-lbs.
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The Burgman clutch shudder or judder (sometimes with the accompanying moan) is mostly not a big issue. If you have it, it's very easy to cure, even for mechanically challenged people so long as you do some research first and take your time. Most don't experience it. But if you do a lot of start stop in heavy traffic everyday, or have been very gentle with the throttle from new, causing prolonged clutch slip as you move off, then you will probably get some judder at some point due to the heat that type of driving generates and the glazing of the clutch pads and dust caused. New riders to the Burgman 400 who are not sure how much throttle to give their new baby when moving off (moving off too gently) can often experience it before 4000 miles. But clutch shudder/judder on the Burgman 400 is not really a fault in my view. It's something all dry clutches of this type can experience if not maintained properly. Preventative maintenance is the key. But judder is more noticeable on the Burgman than some smaller bikes. I even experienced it the other day on a Silverwing 600 which uses the same type of clutch but the owner hadn't even noticed...probably because it's a twin engine. The Burgman single makes it a bit more noticeable.
So, what do you do to cure it. It's actually quite easy. The shudder/judder and noise is caused by dust in the clutch bell and glazed clutch shoes. Glazed clutch shoes can be a blue but mostly they are not. They are just very shiny due to the resin in the clutch lining bubbling to the surface due to heat caused by excessive friction. That's all. It's no good just cleaning out the bell, or just de-glazing without a clean of the bell. Both need doing and it'll be fixed and should run for ages without a problem.
Here is what my glazed clutch pad looked like: the glazing doesn't need to be that heavy to cause a problem. If you can see on the pic, the surface is very shiny with resin which heats up again as the clutch is used and sticks and jumps inside the clutch bell as it mixes with the clutch dust.
View attachment 12770
A couple of points. Make up your own clutch holding tool. There are videos by Micbergsma on here to show you what it looks like and the dimensions. When you clean out the clutch drum or bell use brake cleaner or thinners to wipe it clean. This helps to dissolve the thin resin layer that has built up inside the drum which you cannot see. Next, use a heavy grade sandpaper or emery cloth. About 80 grade is best. DON'T use a higher number than 100 grit. You are aiming to expose the fibres of the clutch pad by removing ALL the surface resin to bring the clutch pad back to new. You won't do that easily or effectively with 200 or 240 grade and the judder will come back very soon. Don't worry about wearing out the clutch pad either. They are very thick and last ages. You don't have to take that much off to remove the resin and expose the fibres. Next, chamfer the leading edge using the 80 grit paper.
Here is what my clutch pads looked like after de-glazing:
View attachment 12762
You don't need me to tell you how to dismantle the bike to do the clutch job. Micbergsma, the excellent guy on here who has given up so much of his time to help us all, has many videos to tell you how to get to all the bits.
Almost ready for assembly:
View attachment 12778
Just one point. The torque figure for the Burgman 400 clutch bell is different to the Variator. The bell needs torquing with dry threads to 85nm. Then just add some grease (very sparingly) to the clutch end shaft bearing surfaces to make sure the cover assembly comes off easily next time.
I've fixed many of them and it takes about an hour and a half if you haven't done it before or 40mins if you know what to do and have done it before. But the best way to deal with it is regular clutch maintenance every 7500 miles. Since you will have the transmission cover off to change the rear transmission oil, it's just one more nut to undo and clean out and de-glaze the clutch whether it needs it or not. Or you may only need to do the clutch clean every 15,000 miles. It adds about 15mins to the total transmission oil change job by adding in the clutch clean and de-glaze. That's all.
Do watch Mic's videos before you do it. It makes it easy. Good luck!
So, what do you do to cure it. It's actually quite easy. The shudder/judder and noise is caused by dust in the clutch bell and glazed clutch shoes. Glazed clutch shoes can be a blue but mostly they are not. They are just very shiny due to the resin in the clutch lining bubbling to the surface due to heat caused by excessive friction. That's all. It's no good just cleaning out the bell, or just de-glazing without a clean of the bell. Both need doing and it'll be fixed and should run for ages without a problem.
Here is what my glazed clutch pad looked like: the glazing doesn't need to be that heavy to cause a problem. If you can see on the pic, the surface is very shiny with resin which heats up again as the clutch is used and sticks and jumps inside the clutch bell as it mixes with the clutch dust.
View attachment 12770
A couple of points. Make up your own clutch holding tool. There are videos by Micbergsma on here to show you what it looks like and the dimensions. When you clean out the clutch drum or bell use brake cleaner or thinners to wipe it clean. This helps to dissolve the thin resin layer that has built up inside the drum which you cannot see. Next, use a heavy grade sandpaper or emery cloth. About 80 grade is best. DON'T use a higher number than 100 grit. You are aiming to expose the fibres of the clutch pad by removing ALL the surface resin to bring the clutch pad back to new. You won't do that easily or effectively with 200 or 240 grade and the judder will come back very soon. Don't worry about wearing out the clutch pad either. They are very thick and last ages. You don't have to take that much off to remove the resin and expose the fibres. Next, chamfer the leading edge using the 80 grit paper.
Here is what my clutch pads looked like after de-glazing:
View attachment 12762
You don't need me to tell you how to dismantle the bike to do the clutch job. Micbergsma, the excellent guy on here who has given up so much of his time to help us all, has many videos to tell you how to get to all the bits.
Almost ready for assembly:
View attachment 12778
Just one point. The torque figure for the Burgman 400 clutch bell is different to the Variator. The bell needs torquing with dry threads to 85nm. Then just add some grease (very sparingly) to the clutch end shaft bearing surfaces to make sure the cover assembly comes off easily next time.
I've fixed many of them and it takes about an hour and a half if you haven't done it before or 40mins if you know what to do and have done it before. But the best way to deal with it is regular clutch maintenance every 7500 miles. Since you will have the transmission cover off to change the rear transmission oil, it's just one more nut to undo and clean out and de-glaze the clutch whether it needs it or not. Or you may only need to do the clutch clean every 15,000 miles. It adds about 15mins to the total transmission oil change job by adding in the clutch clean and de-glaze. That's all.
Do watch Mic's videos before you do it. It makes it easy. Good luck!
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