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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Lost it a couple of days ago.

Hadn't ridden the 650 for a while. Un-double-parked it to get it out of the garage for a quick trip to the store.
Hit the starter: "Whir-chunk."
Dash goes blank, comes back up with the clock reset to 1PM and the odometer showing where Trip B normally does.
Damnit. That's NOT how it's supposed to go. Look at my sig line: "Whir-chirp-chirp, purr". Two chirps, then it starts -- three if the battery's weak. It's not even weak this time.

Hit the starter again: "Whir-chir-chir-chir-chir-sputter, purr"
Ok, that's not good but at least it started -- maybe the battery just ran down from sitting so long.
It did that once before, which was probably why it's shot now.

Well, the quick shopping trip is now a ride to the auto parts store. They have the battery in stock, in both a cheap and an expensive version (it's about the warranty). I get the cheaper one and plunk it under the seat along with my mask after performing the hand sanitizer ritual because you do that these days.

"Whir-chirp-chirp-chirp, purr". A little better. (I'd been worried for a moment there.) And so, to home, with a stop at the store on the way back.

After the store: "Whir-chirp-chirp-chirp, purr". No worse, but no better, either. It'll need that battery.

I get around to swapping the battery the next day. It's not too difficult. You probably don't need to unhook the electrical connectors to the battery compartment lid, but I did it anyhow. If you do, keep track of which plug goes where because it might be possible to accidentally switch them and that can't be good. You don't need to disconnect the red cables at the ring terminals, but you can if you really want the battery compartment lid out of the way. Whatever you do, DO NOT SHORT THESE TWO WIRES IF THE BATTERY IS STILL CONNECTED -- IT WILL ENGAGE THE STARTER EVEN IF THE IGNITION IS OFF! (Found that out about ten years ago.) A long skinny flat-blade screwdriver helps to hold the rectangular nut inside the battery posts up to where the cable bolts can engage them.

Anyhow, got that done and the tools put away. Switch the bike on, do the button thing to reset the clock, shut it back off.

Once again with the East Asian Fire Drill to get the 650 out of the garage.
Hit the starter: "Whir-chirp-chirp, purr...."

I had my signature line back.

Tomorrow the auto parts place gets the dead battery back, and I get the core charge back.
 

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Chip Chip Purr Ray ! You Jolly Good Fellow .
 
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I wanted you to know I always enjoy reading your writings 🤓
You’re sorta the Samuel Langhorne Clemens of The Scooter Underground.
 

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I find the way the Burgman cranks to be a bit annoying. It sounds weak with no excitement. But now that I think about it, because it is a CVT and "always in gear" an initial small rev would tend to engage the clutch, and might lead to a drop. My Rebel has a nice chirp, chirp, vRRRrrr. But it starts in neutral or with the clutch disengaged. I will say that when the Burgman does crank, after the less than exciting starting process, it does have a nice sounding purr.
 

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Rusty, I'd do a quick down and dirty charging system test.
 
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Rusty, I'd do a quick down and dirty charging system test.
I may as well, but I'm confident it's because the bike's been sitting for weeks or months at a time (there was significant corrosion on the terminals, too -- which can't have helped). I don't get out that often in these times, and rotate my transportation between four bikes and a car -- it's only the 650 that's double-parked so it got less use than the rest of them even when I could ride more. My Vespa's battery went bad too when I left it sitting for a couple of months (worn tire and weird exhaust noise, and my Vespa mechanic is an hour away so transportation logistics was an obstacle).

That's the trouble with having a garage-full of bikes.

I'd guess I got over 6 years out of that battery. I'm pretty sure I swapped it once sometime between 8 and 4 years ago, but don't remember exactly when.
 

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You don't need to disconnect the red cables at the ring terminals, but you can if you really want the battery compartment lid out of the way. Whatever you do, DO NOT SHORT THESE TWO WIRES IF THE BATTERY IS STILL CONNECTED -- IT WILL ENGAGE THE STARTER EVEN IF THE IGNITION IS OFF! (Found that out about ten years ago.)
What 2 wires are you talking about that shorted near the battery can turn over the starter? I’ve never seen something like that. The electric schematic also shows no way to connector / short bypass the brake switch in series with the starter button to energize the starter relay , unless the schematic is wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What 2 wires are you talking about that shorted near the battery can turn over the starter? I’ve never seen something like that. The electric schematic also shows no way to connector / short bypass the brake switch in series with the starter button to energize the starter relay , unless the schematic is wrong.
The two wires that connect to the top of the battery cover with bolt-down ring connectors. They have rubber caps over the terminals.
Long ago (not knowing any better) I used them for power for heated clothing. (Don't do this, use the battery terminals!) And managed to short them with a screwdriver while hooking it up...

It's possible I'm mis-remembering this.
 

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Wires or cables?😄
If you touched the in/ out starter relay secondary side cables together, that would do it. That would bypass the the safety of the primary coil side, but those are good sized cables. Is that possibility what happened?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Wires or cables?😄
If you touched the in/ out starter relay secondary side cables together, that would do it. That would bypass the the safety of the primary coil side, but those are good sized cables. Is that possibility what happened?
As you described it, that sounds exactly like what happened.

There are four wires going to the battery cover (this is an '05 standard 650).
  • Two fairly-light wires each with a square-ish locking spade connector.
  • Two heavy-gauge wires with ring terminals, each connecting to a block on the cover.
They could well be the relay secondary side.

In which case, I got VERY lucky when using them for suit-heat power. The suit and controller had enough resistance to keep the current through the starter low enough that it didn't engage...

Just, wow.
I did WHAT?!

REALLY glad now that I disconnected it long ago.
 

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Wire or Cable???
Basically the terms are interchanged and accepted. But they are different.

Wire can be 1 strand or multi-strand, bare or insulated. But the main thing is all strands are touching inside so it acts as 1 large wire. Stranding just makes it a bit more flexible. A 0000 gauge wire is not a cable but is 1 inch in diameter. I have some wire here at home that is almost 2 inches in diameter and it is still wire.

Cable is usually two or more wires that are insulated from each other so they act independly from each other. But they are usually not called cable until they get to over 12 pairs (24 conductors) inside one outer sheath. I have some 12 pair Cat 3 wire here at the house.
Cat 5e is 4 pairs (8 conductors) but called wire. I have a chunk of 1800 pair cable here at home that is 4 inches in diameter and has 3620 conductors inside.

So, the wires going to the battery are wires. When you put some 'Jumper Cables' on to jump start, they are multi-stranded 2 conductor cables.

 

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It's possible I'm mis-remembering this.
Rusty - You are remembering correctly. I've done this when I was doing a few things when I had the Burgman all tore apart. Scared the hell out me to hear that starter turn with the bike off and my hands down in the guts of the battery area.
 

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Wire or Cable???
Basically the terms are interchanged and accepted. But they are different.

Wire can be 1 strand or multi-strand, bare or insulated. But the main thing is all strands are touching inside so it acts as 1 large wire. Stranding just makes it a bit more flexible. A 0000 gauge wire is not a cable but is 1 inch in diameter. I have some wire here at home that is almost 2 inches in diameter and it is still wire.

Cable is usually two or more wires that are insulated from each other so they act independly from each other. But they are usually not called cable until they get to over 12 pairs (24 conductors) inside one outer sheath. I have some 12 pair Cat 3 wire here at the house.
Cat 5e is 4 pairs (8 conductors) but called wire. I have a chunk of 1800 pair cable here at home that is 4 inches in diameter and has 3620 conductors inside.

So, the wires going to the battery are wires. When you put some 'Jumper Cables' on to jump start, they are multi-stranded 2 conductor cables.

Yes, yes.... I assumed most would understand I was making a joke statement of the large size of the starter wires phrased by most as ‘cables’ by my big laughing 😂 emoji .... not a technical descriptive correction of the words...
 

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Lost it a couple of days ago.

Hadn't ridden the 650 for a while. Un-double-parked it to get it out of the garage for a quick trip to the store.
Hit the starter: "Whir-chunk."
Dash goes blank, comes back up with the clock reset to 1PM and the odometer showing where Trip B normally does.
Damnit. That's NOT how it's supposed to go. Look at my sig line: "Whir-chirp-chirp, purr". Two chirps, then it starts -- three if the battery's weak. It's not even weak this time.

Hit the starter again: "Whir-chir-chir-chir-chir-sputter, purr"
Ok, that's not good but at least it started -- maybe the battery just ran down from sitting so long.
It did that once before, which was probably why it's shot now.

Well, the quick shopping trip is now a ride to the auto parts store. They have the battery in stock, in both a cheap and an expensive version (it's about the warranty). I get the cheaper one and plunk it under the seat along with my mask after performing the hand sanitizer ritual because you do that these days.

"Whir-chirp-chirp-chirp, purr". A little better. (I'd been worried for a moment there.) And so, to home, with a stop at the store on the way back.

After the store: "Whir-chirp-chirp-chirp, purr". No worse, but no better, either. It'll need that battery.

I get around to swapping the battery the next day. It's not too difficult. You probably don't need to unhook the electrical connectors to the battery compartment lid, but I did it anyhow. If you do, keep track of which plug goes where because it might be possible to accidentally switch them and that can't be good. You don't need to disconnect the red cables at the ring terminals, but you can if you really want the battery compartment lid out of the way. Whatever you do, DO NOT SHORT THESE TWO WIRES IF THE BATTERY IS STILL CONNECTED -- IT WILL ENGAGE THE STARTER EVEN IF THE IGNITION IS OFF! (Found that out about ten years ago.) A long skinny flat-blade screwdriver helps to hold the rectangular nut inside the battery posts up to where the cable bolts can engage them.

Anyhow, got that done and the tools put away. Switch the bike on, do the button thing to reset the clock, shut it back off.

Once again with the East Asian Fire Drill to get the 650 out of the garage.
Hit the starter: "Whir-chirp-chirp, purr...."

I had my signature line back.

Tomorrow the auto parts place gets the dead battery back, and I get the core charge back.
How long was it sitting? Mine sat 3 years. New battery, plugs Seafoam in the tank with stale gas. Been riding it ever since Almost 1000 miles in 6 weeks. Good luck with yours.
 

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a battery tender is a great thing for anything that is not used EVERY day. you don't have to wonder if the bike will start or not.
 

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a battery tender is a great thing for anything that is not used EVERY day. you don't have to wonder if the bike will start or not.
My lawn tractor is used once a week. My jeeps are for winter (white) or summer (black) use. Burgy gets used at least 3 times a week. Burgy will be parked in the garage all winter with a tender on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
How long was it sitting? Mine sat 3 years. New battery, plugs Seafoam in the tank with stale gas. Been riding it ever since Almost 1000 miles in 6 weeks. Good luck with yours.
Most of a month (hard to keep track these days). Battery was damaged by having run down by sitting for about a month some time before. And the battery was about six years old... this wasn't entirely unexpected.

I did bring it back after it had been parked for a year, once. Lost a whole riding season to a springtime broken ankle (not a motorcycle mishap) and then it sat through a snowy winter. After that it needed a battery, and once it started it needed new fork seals. Otherwise, it got through sitting there pretty well.

With a good battery, it'll re-start even after sitting for a few months. With a bad one... it might not, and every time it doesn't, it makes things worse.

I usually rotate using the bikes pretty evenly, so I didn't expect to need external charging. This time I let it go too long. (Wnen the Vespa went Awaiting Maintenance, I ought to have pulled the battery or at least disconnected it -- but didn't.)
 
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